Discussion Patches overwhelmingly help NRS games not hurt them

[STRYKIE]

Take a look at 3rd Strike which had a "Revision B" board that came out a month after release. This revision was universally rejected because it took out some supposedly broken things like unblockables (for Urien, and later on Oro) that players deemed actually made the game more interesting.

Very interesting example actually. I remember this being a big reason why nobody liked the Dreamcast port of 3S because it was based on this revision.

 

[Big Pampering]

The amount of garbage that's still in injustice after the 6 month patch should be regarded as proof that the game needs more time to be figured out before final decisions are made. With that said we need more than 6 damn months before a final balance patch. I think we can all agree on this right?

They would take more time to patch if they could but they might only have so much time before they have to completely move on to the new projects they have.

 

[crosstalk]

I think you aren't seeing how hard it is to actually balance a game.

Plus it's common for things to get overlooked or missed in patches. If you look at just about any major software patch for complex programs, it's never perfect. Something unnecessary gets added, it never focuses on what's wrong, and additions can make the software perform even worse. Sometimes they just fix glaring issues and that's it. Developers are human and we can't expect everything to be perfect, especially when they're constrained by shareholders haha.

 

[Scoot Magee]

They would take more time to patch if they could but they might only have so much time before they have to completely move on to the new projects they have.

I understand that wb controls shit. This is why quality pre release testing is so important.

 

[Wemfs]

Please discuss this game, talk about it, wonder out loud if you think something is overpowered or underpowered. In fact that is what this sight is supposed to be about, the open discussion of things, not people telling you "you shouldn't talk about this or that".

My favorite part of your post, Jeremiah.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Plus it's common for things to get overlooked or missed in patches. If you look at just about any major software patch for complex programs, it's never perfect. Something unnecessary gets added, it never focuses on what's wrong, and additions can make the software perform even worse. Sometimes they just fix glaring issues and that's it. Developers are human and we can't expect everything to be perfect, especially when they're constrained by shareholders haha.

I definitely understand there will never be perfect balancing as it isn't possible or plausible. I just do not like that ppl are acting like patches must be done super early for things that many others believe are not as big of an issue as some are making them out to be.

 

[haketh]

But 6 months? Seriously? I really hope that's not the case this time arounD.

Honestly so far theirs nothing super busted, plus a decent amount of the DLC will be out by then so waiting 6 months wouldn't be so bad.

 

[crosstalk]

I definitely understand there will never be perfect balancing as it isn't possible or plausible. I just do not like that ppl are acting like patches must be done super early for things that many others believe are not as big of an issue as some are making them out to be.

I agree. I think after mk9 and injustice nrs will make good decisions with patching. The final injustice patch is prob the best example, it pretty much saved the game

 

[Jeffreys]

It hasn't even been a month since the release, the reason why we are yelling at some of you is that there is no glaring issues right now. We all knew that going into Evo that Superman and Black Adam were going to be clearly dominant. If some characters are lacking, then suggest some buffs for them. Don't just go on a nerf train when no one in this game is comparable to a pre patch Superman or Kabal or Kenshi.

 

[Slips]

I know it isn't easy to balance a game, but some things are so obvious like the trident rush that I am very surprised it didn't get nerfed properly. Hell ed boon was happy I took out Theo at evo haha which shows he and NRS knows they missed some changes they could have made for aquaman

Is Trident Rush really the problem? That's like, his main tool he uses to do damage to a blocking opponent since his 50/50 got toned down. Taking that away might inadvertently destroy him. Maybe the real culprit with Aquaman was his that his From the Deep was a top 3 anti-zoning tool forcing characters to deal with his ridiculous normals. Or, maybe it was his ridiculous normals that he could cancel into Trident Rush which made him so dumb. Maybe it was his d2 being the most brainless AA ever.

It's easy to point to the tool that is doing the damage as the problem, but maybe it's the tools funneling to the tool that is causing the damage that is the problem. None of these questions are easily answered, which is why discussion shouldn't be frowned upon.

Why is Kung Jin winning so much? Is it because we don't know the match? Is he more punishable than we thought? Are his 50/50's fuzzyable with enough experience? Is it just that he does too much damage? Is it his armor that is putting him over the edge? Is it his normals? His safeness?

These are the discussions that I think it's ok to have at this point. I am not saying nerf nerf nerf, but I think it's ok for us to a least discuss what the biggest problem is people are having so we as a community can come up with a solution and realize if nerfs/buffs are necessary so NRS can change them accordingly.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Is Trident Rush really the problem? That's like, his main tool he uses to do damage to a blocking opponent since his 50/50 got toned down. Taking that away might inadvertently destroy him. Maybe the real culprit with Aquaman was his that his From the Deep was a top 3 anti-zoning tool forcing characters to deal with his ridiculous normals. Or, maybe it was his ridiculous normals that he could cancel into Trident Rush which made him so dumb. Maybe it was his d2 being the most brainless AA ever.

It's easy to point to the tool that is doing the damage as the problem, but maybe it's the tools funneling to the tool that is causing the damage that is the problem. None of these questions are easily answered, which is why discussion shouldn't be frowned upon.

Why is Kung Jin winning so much? Is it because we don't know the match? Is he more punishable than we thought? Are his 50/50's fuzzyable with enough experience? Is it just that he does too much damage? Is it his armor that is putting him over the edge? Is it his normals? His safeness?

These are the discussions that I think it's ok to have at this point. I am not saying nerf nerf nerf, but I think it's ok for us to a least discuss what the biggest problem is people are having so we as a community can come up with a solution and realize if nerfs/buffs are necessary so NRS can change them accordingly.

Well we will have to agree to disagree on certain things. Either way we will see how things go for MKX, I will play it either way.

 

[Slips]

The amount of garbage that's still in injustice after the 6 month patch should be regarded as proof that the game needs more time to be figured out before final decisions are made. With that said we need more than 6 damn months before a final balance patch. I think we can all agree on this right?

I think we can all agree that we wish NRS would support their games for longer than 6 months. But if 6 months is all we got, waiting will hurt more than help. It happened in Injustice, it could happen in MKX.

I will say, people just seem to be having more fun in general with MKX than people did with Injustice. So people maybe have a higher tolerance for broken stuff this time around. Which may or may not be a good thing. We shall see.

 

[Ninj]

NRS has proven time and again they are unable to correctly balance fighting games. Which is fine, whatever - they are a casual fighting game company that likes to pretend they understand the competitive scene.

And there's nothing wrong with that.

However, the people on this site and in our community need to understand this. I'm not saying NRS never could be different than what they are, but currently the MK franchise is casual. But you can't expect a casual gaming company to take itself as seriously as the 1% of players who are here take them.

I suppose bottom line what I'm saying is that it's evident that NRS builds its games around "wow factor" and "coolness" to sell as much as possible to the general public. Balancing has always taken a back seat and it shows. Their patches are evidence of my argument - balance changes that are unwarranted or miss the mark completely in regards to the current meta of the game.

What I would be more concerned about is that this is even an argument. If the company whose game you support, on a competitive level no less, can't deploy balance changes that make sense...then why are you supporting them?

 

[Slips]

Well we will have to agree to disagree on certain things. Either way we will see how things go for MKX, I will play it either way.

You know I respect you as a player and as a person and as a fellow Shirai Ryu. Not trying to make an enemy out of you by arguing. Just trying to convey my feelings the best as I can as you are. We can agree to disagree it's all good.

 

[Scoot Magee]

I think we can all agree that we wish NRS would support their games for longer than 6 months. But if 6 months is all we got, waiting will hurt more than help. It happened in Injustice, it could happen in MKX.

I will say, people just seem to be having more fun in general with MKX than people did with Injustice. So people maybe have a higher tolerance for broken stuff this time around. Which may or may not be a good thing. We shall see.

I just really hope it's more than 6 months this time around. If not hopefully all the pre release testing helps keep the game solid.

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

You know I respect you as a player and as a person and as a fellow Shirai Ryu. Not trying to make an enemy out of you by arguing. Just trying to convey my feelings the best as I can as you are. We can agree to disagree it's all good.

One thing we do agree on is our mains, as we always use the same character Lol.

 

[rev0lver]

I just really hope it's more than 6 months this time around. If not hopefully all the pre release testing helps keep the game solid.

The problem though is probably the complete edition, which they're obligated in a company like that to put out as the final build of the game. If it weren't for that I'm sure Paulo, John, etc would have loved to keep updating mk9/injustice

 

[Scoot Magee]

The problem though is probably the complete edition, which they're obligated in a company like that to put out as the final build of the game. If it weren't for that I'm sure Paulo, John, etc would have loved to keep updating mk9/injustice

Yeah I know those guys take pride in the games they make. I just wish WB would give more freedom.

 

[JHCRANE 14]

Well, if they are going to patch the game here are Reptile bug/buffs

Make his Forceballs a true mid and give his EX Reptilian Dash one hit of armor...that's it for bug fixes.

Now buffs. Give Reptile at least one safe special move and give him a 6 frame normal. That's all from me.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

I agree with scoot. NRS could have a game that could easily last this entire gaming generation if they just support it over its life. It's a really solid fighting game, even with all the bullshit, if it all just got ironed out and revised over time it could be really beautiful... Games used to last so long, now only a few years if lucky then everybody's ADD kicks in and it's time for something new right?

 

[PPJ]

NRS has proven time and again they are unable to correctly balance fighting games. Which is fine, whatever - they are a casual fighting game company that likes to pretend they understand the competitive scene.

lol

 

[Big Pampering]

The problem though is probably the complete edition, which they're obligated in a company like that to put out as the final build of the game. If it weren't for that I'm sure Paulo, John, etc would have loved to keep updating mk9/injustice

Didn't injustice have many hotfixes even after the ultimate edition though?

 

[YOMI MITYEAP]

Also why was I not tagged @GGA Jeremiah ? This got front paged and that is kind of cold lol

 

[Sultani]

Honestly so far theirs nothing super busted...

Infinites are totally fine. People getting stuck in the air and sliding all the way across the screen after using interactables.

Seems legit. Nothings busted.

 

[rev0lver]

Didn't injustice have many hotfixes even after the ultimate edition though?

hotfixes yes, but not whole patches