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Tech Debate with ya boi Soup

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Baraka:
1. Is it a great whiff punishing tool? Sure, it can whiff punish almost everything. But considering it knocks the opponent down and only does around 12% damage(its been a while, dont quote me) it doesnt hold a candle to Kabals Nomad Dash.
2. Not really. He has really good space control but he doesnt have anything to really punish someone for poor spacing.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Baraka:
-The reason he is the best low tier character is because he has the best whiff punish in the game (blade charge). Depends on how closer to the corner he put you with it, but in the grand scheme of things, no.
-Baraka's space control is top 5 within sweep distance Not with those moon gravity normals.

Cyrax:
-Cyrax would possibly drop out of top 5 if he didn't have his command grab I would agree.
-Cyrax's breaker trap is the best find of the community, and rarely anyone uses it MFW didn't you hear that the holocaust was caused by breaker traps? (and as such was found by Check?)

Ermac:
-If Ermac had armor, he would be a top 10 contender Agreed. he's already the next best character after the current "top 10 contenders" IMO.
-More Ermacs need to start using lift as a whiff punish, when in sweep distance, rather than push I guess it's just impulse since push is mostly safe from sweep range. But agreed.

Jax:
-Top 10 Contender yes, lock no.
-If f41 hit low hitboxes, he would be top 5 Disagree. There are numerous characters that still give Jax sufficient problems despite already being jailed by F41.

Jade:
-Jade players need to start using d3 to counter jump ins rather than getting their normals stuffed Probably.
-Standing reset after b2 is her most underrated tool Wait, she has other tools?

Freddy Krueger:
-Green goo/ex green goo is such a powerful tool in the corner, and I rarely see it used Agreed.
-Freddy is strongest in the corner Not sure what you mean by this. Are you saying he has the strongest corner game in MK9 or that he's at his best in when the corner comes into play? Either way, I disagree.

Johnny Cage:
-Standing 3 is insanely underrated as a footsies tool Could be. Definitely has the "oh that must've been input bug" yomi to it.
-f32 is insanely overrated But he beats Cyrax with it. #Kappa

Kabal:
-Kabal's strongest point isn't his zoning or his pressure. His strongest is that you have to guess in every moment of the fight Bets way to put it is that it's about the quantity of his tools, not the quality of his tools.
-f32 buzzsaw/overhead is Kabal's strongest pressure tool As a salty Sektor player, I'd like to agree, but as a universal approach, I disagree.

Kano:
-air ball is incredibly strong against projectiles Match-up dependent, but underestimated nonetheless.
-jump kick air throw/jump kick d1 upball is his strongest option select Didn't even know this worked. LOL

Kenshi:
-Kenshi vs Kung Lao really isn't that bad Agreed. It's just his most "obvious" disadvantage matchup as opposed to actually being hard.
-f32 can be armored out of, and no one abused that. Definitely overlooked by a lot of players, but it wouldn't be that big of a game changer if they did this more often IMO.

Kitana:
-Jump kick fan is numero uno Ludicrously safe fuckin piece of safe shit.
-Dash under ex lift should've been used more against crossups Questionable meter investment. But on the other hand, the only character that would reliably do more damage on the jump in is.... herself in the mirror with above tech.

Kung Lao:
-The fear of the spin was Kung Lao's greatest threat, not his mobility I would disagree, but big hitboxes ended up spoiling Lao players into forgetting naked spin even exists.
-ex ground hat in the corner needed to be executed more EX ground hat needed to be executed more everywhere, it essentially does double duty as a 1 bar breaker.

Liu Kang:
-Dragon stance was super good Unfortunately ended up being a poor man's nightmare stance, but wasn't used as much as it should've been either way.
-With good fireballs, you can get a 4 instant air fireball juggle off of an opponent's single jump Didn't know you could get that many. Liu players probably just mash UBF1 and hope for the best.

Mileena:
-U4 into 42 should've been used more often Probably.
-234 was a really, really underused string Don't know, was too busy pressing buttons against her to ever see this string come out.

Nightwolf:
-f3 is amazing AND SHOULD BE A LOW Well the move itself is officially listed as "toe stomp" soooo... let's make it overhead.
-lightning swag combos automatically make him better than most of the cast Go back to Tekken

Noob Saibot:
-If he had higher damage output, outside of the corner, Noob could possibly be top 10 Too situational to call
-Ex confuse was Noob's best special that nobody ever used, except for DR Yo Dawg

Quan Chi:
-Best d1 hitbox in the game Dhalsim Fierce 2.0
-Worst d1 startup frames in the game The price of having the most useful uppercut in the game

Raiden:
-b2f11+2 was a great string This string exists?
-jump kick superman option select were underused Can be punished by a few things, but agreed.

Reptile:
-Fast and slow projectiles gave Reptile an advantage in the zoning game Faking out respective forceballs with their ex counterparts was also underrated.
-Invisibility could have been used more I'd agree, More than enough advantageous setups for it.

Rain:
-b2 ex roundhouse cancel leads to a full combo on his, and can't be interrupted on block Interesting.
-That water hand move is a really good spacing tool Cons > Pros

Scorpion:
-d4 was a strong AA Probably. Training mode is crap though so I didn't really have a way to test how effective it was against jump in fake-outs.
-ex hellfire was an underrated combo ender Unless it kills them, waste of meter.

Sektor:
-Sektor does not beat Cyrax +100000000000000000000000
-jump kick is Sektor's best conditioning tool Better than most in the grand scheme of things.

Shang Tsung:
-One of the best pressure kits in the game Agreed.
-One of the worst escape kits in the game Sigh-rax

Sheeva:
-Amazing AA grab Never noticed it in the way of all those upmissiles I put in front of her.
-d3 crouch command grab is a bill Haven't read Sheeva's frame data enough to know, but 99% likely.

Sindel:
-Most technical character to use Probably.
-Her corner resets were ridiculous Statistically or lack of matchup experience-wise?

Skarlet:
-Dagger cancels are more annoying than useful Disagree. Skarlet players just take them for granted and try to sneak some 47 frame move in too much.
-f33 ex dagger cancel was underrated See above.

Smoke:
-His resets are easily to hit than people say they are Agreed. He still wishes he was Cyrax though.
-d1 smoke away is too strong and underused Match-up specific.

Sonya:
-Stupid character


Stryker:
-x-ray is more reliable than ex roll Stryker beats Kenshi for this reason.
-Has great AA options for jump ins (standing 4) and crossups (uppercut) Stryker beats Kung Lao for this reason.

Sub-Zero:
-22 is a great crossup AA Questionable reliability.
-22slide is a man's way of finishing a round 13B4 all day.

Cyber Sub-Zero:
-Everyone knows how to make Cyber Sub-Zero better, but no one knows how to make him good Best candidate for a ST T.Hawk tier list rise in the near future of 2022.
-Parry is overrated Neither agree nor disagree.
 

Zoidberg747

My blades will find your heart
Other than Baraka which I already covered

With the last three (NEC, KiT, SCR) major Mortal Kombat 9 tournaments nearing, ya boi Soup has thought of some things that could be debated and fleshed out.


Cyrax:
-Cyrax would possibly drop out of top 5 if he didn't have his command grab He has plenty of good strings. Grab is more icing on the cake.
-Cyrax's breaker trap is the best find of the community, and rarely anyone uses it Probably because it was found late in the game's life.

Ermac:
-If Ermac had armor, he would be a top 10 contender Depends on what move has armor.
-More Ermacs need to start using lift as a whiff punish, when in sweep distance, rather than push Probably.

Jax:
-Top 10 Maybe
-If f41 hit low hitboxes, he would be top 5 That's a stretch

Jade:
-Jade players need to start using d3 to counter jump ins rather than getting their normals stuffed Yep
-Standing reset after b2 is her most underrated tool Still not that great

Freddy Krueger:
-Green goo/ex green goo is such a powerful tool in the corner, and I rarely see it used I rarely see Freddy used
-Freddy is strongest in the corner It goes against his play style, unless he escapes the corner

Johnny Cage:
-Standing 3 is insanely underrated as a footsies tool I guess...
-f32 is insanely overrated Maybe if used sparingly

Kabal:
-Kabal's strongest point isn't his zoning or his pressure. His strongest is that you have to guess in every moment of the fight Because of his zoning and pressure...
-f32 buzzsaw/overhead is Kabal's strongest pressure tool Probably

Kano:
-air ball is incredibly strong against projectiles Depends on the projectile
-jump kick air throw/jump kick d1 upball is his strongest option select Also his only OS. And still not great.

Kenshi:
-Kenshi vs Kung Lao really isn't that bad Pig said this a million times
-f32 can be armored out of, and no one abused that. No one used f32..

Kitana:
-Jump kick fan is numero uno Yeah
-Dash under ex lift should've been used more against crossups Easier said then done, but maybe

Kung Lao:
-The fear of the spin was Kung Lao's greatest threat, not his mobility Agree
-ex ground hat in the corner needed to be executed more Probably

Liu Kang:
-Dragon stance was super good Gimmick
-With good fireballs, you can get a 4 instant air fireball juggle off of an opponent's single jump In theory yes. In practice easier said then done

Mileena:
-U4 into 42 should've been used more often Yeah
-234 was a really, really underused string I saw it used quite a bit

Nightwolf:
-f3 is amazing AND SHOULD BE A LOW Yes
-lightning swag combos automatically make him better than most of the cast ???

Noob Saibot:
-If he had higher damage output, outside of the corner, Noob could possibly be top 10 Could say that about a lot of chars
-Ex confuse was Noob's best special that nobody ever used, except for DR Yep

Quan Chi:
-Best d1 hitbox in the game Agree
-Worst d1 startup frames in the game Agree

Raiden:
-b2f11+2 was a great string Agree
-jump kick superman option select were underused Saw it used a couple times

Reptile:
-Fast and slow projectiles gave Reptile an advantage in the zoning game Duh
-Invisibility could have been used more Maybe

Rain:
-b2 ex roundhouse cancel leads to a full combo on his, and can't be interrupted on block Yeah
-That water hand move is a really good spacing tool No.

Scorpion:
-d4 was a strong AA Nah
-ex hellfire was an underrated combo ender Yeah

Sektor:
-Sektor does not beat Cyrax Yeah
-jump kick is Sektor's best conditioning tool Yep

Shang Tsung:
-One of the best pressure kits in the game Yep
-One of the worst escape kits in the game Yep

Sheeva:
-Amazing AA grab Meh
-d3 crouch command grab is a bill Yes

Sindel:
-Most technical character to use Close to it
-Her corner resets were ridiculous Yes

Skarlet:
-Dagger cancels are more annoying than useful Annoying is useful
-f33 ex dagger cancel was underrated Contradicting yourself here..

Smoke:
-His resets are easily to hit than people say they are Yes. Yes. Yes. And Yes.
-d1 smoke away is too strong and underused ^^^^

Sonya:
-Stupid character Yes

Stryker:
-x-ray is more reliable than ex roll Lol true
-Has great AA options for jump ins (standing 4) and crossups (uppercut) Yes

Sub-Zero:
-22 is a great crossup AA Yes
-22slide is a man's way of finishing a round DJT X-ray cancel anyone?

Cyber Sub-Zero:
-Everyone knows how to make Cyber Sub-Zero better, but no one knows how to make him good I guess
-Parry is overrated Yeah
 

NKZero

Noob
Baraka:
-The reason he is the best low tier character is because he has the best whiff punish in the game (blade charge). Debatable. Many characters come to mind with similar punishes e.g. Raiden's electric fly and Ermac's TKP.
-Baraka's space control is top 5 within sweep distance Again debatable, but by no means an invalid point.

Cyrax:
-Cyrax would possibly drop out of top 5 if he didn't have his command grab Agreed because suddenly his rush-down becomes less menacing without fear of a string vs. command grab mix-up + all other ridiculous uses for command grab
-Cyrax's breaker trap is the best find of the community, and rarely anyone uses it No, Shoryuken's Prison hands down :cool:

Ermac:
-If Ermac had armor, he would be a top 10 contender Plausible thought. Imagine EX lift had armour? :eek:
-More Ermacs need to start using lift as a whiff punish, when in sweep distance, rather than push Yes and No. Yes because it can yield more damage. No because if you are late on the punish, TKL is more punishable than TKP.

Jax:
-Top 10 He's on the fringe but personally not in my top 10.
-If f41 hit low hitboxes, he would be top 5 As others have said, even characters who are jailed in crouch block by f+4, 1 still hold their own and then some against him.

Jade:
-Jade players need to start using d3 to counter jump ins rather than getting their normals stuffed Don't know about Jade much tbh...
-Standing reset after b2 is her most underrated tool Agreed.

Freddy Krueger:
-Green goo/ex green goo is such a powerful tool in the corner, and I rarely see it used YES. YES. YES.
-Freddy is strongest in the corner Certainly one of. Characters with lock down tools like goo are usually most dangerous. Best corner games include Freddy, Sub Zero, Sektor, Shang Tsung, Cyrax, Kenshi and Jax (ones that first come to mind).

Johnny Cage:
-Standing 3 is insanely underrated as a footsies tool Haven't seen it used much if at all so no comment.
-f32 is insanely overrated f+3, 2 is almost redundant after one of the earlier MK9 patches that stopped it combo-ing into nut punch.

Kabal:
-Kabal's strongest point isn't his zoning or his pressure. His strongest is that you have to guess in every moment of the fight Most definitely, though it varies from MU to MU imo.
-f32 buzzsaw/overhead is Kabal's strongest pressure tool Well combined with his other strings and the NDC itself. Alone it isn't that threatening. Both the low and overhead are punishable by certain characters.

Kano:
-air ball is incredibly strong against projectiles The EX version I'm assuming. Haven't seen it much in practice.
-jump kick air throw/jump kick d1 upball is his strongest option select Yep.

Kenshi:
-Kenshi vs Kung Lao really isn't that bad As if Kenshi ever had a truly bad MU. :rolleyes:
-f32 can be armored out of, and no one abused that. Many examples like that one. Game wasn't fleshed out enough imo to reach that stage with all interruptible strings.

Kitana:
-Jump kick fan is numero uno Agreed unfortunately.
-Dash under ex lift should've been used more against cross ups If it means she gets punished....sure.:p

Kung Lao:
-The fear of the spin was Kung Lao's greatest threat, not his mobility A combination of both. If played with speed and reckless abandon, he's scary as hell.
-ex ground hat in the corner needed to be executed more Lockdown tools in the corner = great success. This is no exception.

Liu Kang:
-Dragon stance was super good Nope. Dragon +1 was a mediocre whiff punish, albeit safe launcher. Dragon +2 useless. Dragon +3 only applicable to those with 1000 year old reactions. Dragon +4 is a nice little sweep I guess. Maybe the cancelling had some use...idk
-With good fireballs, you can get a 4 instant air fireball juggle off of an opponent's single jump Interesting!

Mileena:
-U4 into 42 should've been used more often Yes
-234 was a really, really underused string Any 3 hit safe string is worth using, especially since it's cancellable into a special. That extra chip!

Nightwolf:
-f3 is amazing AND SHOULD BE A LOW I wish :(
-lightning swag combos automatically make him better than most of the cast In coolness factor, for sure.

Noob Saibot:
-If he had higher damage output, outside of the corner, Noob could possibly be top 10 Not an unfair assumption but I would say still outside.
-Ex confuse was Noob's best special that nobody ever used, except for DR AGREED. Especially in corners. My God...

Quan Chi:
-Best d1 hitbox in the game I guess...
-Worst d1 startup frames in the game Yep, kinda negates the validity of the first point. Who uses it?

Raiden:
-b2f11+2 was a great string Dunno much about it. Looked super cool tho.
-jump kick superman option select were underused For sure.

Reptile:
-Fast and slow projectiles gave Reptile an advantage in the zoning game If Reptile could lock down a character with the acid balls, you're in a lot of trouble. Great tools for zoning, no doubt.
-Invisibility could have been used more Yes. If only he had a better 50/50 mix-up game to compliment that...

Rain:
-b2 ex roundhouse cancel leads to a full combo on his, and can't be interrupted on block Cool.
-That water hand move is a really good spacing tool Under-used. Really good? Perhaps.

Scorpion:
-d4 was a strong AA Unusually good, especially for a low poke kick move.
-ex hellfire was an underrated combo ender Has its uses. To end rounds or whatever. But yeah, agreed.

Sektor:
-Sektor does not beat Cyrax 5-5 imo, but I definitely used to believe in the 6-4 Sektor propaganda.
-jump kick is Sektor's best conditioning tool imo random iaTU's are better :D. But in all seriousness, cancelling strings into EX up missile aka. homing missile is more effective....but you need meter. Idk jump kick is still a very good conditioning tool. No wrong answer here...

Shang Tsung:
-One of the best pressure kits in the game Yes.
-One of the worst escape kits in the game Cyrax, is that you? Uh oh!! 100% agreed.

Sheeva:
-Amazing AA grab Yep.
-d3 crouch command grab is a bill Can't comment.

Sindel:
-Most technical character to use Levitation cancels is just the start.
-Her corner resets were ridiculous Yes, and sorely under-used and under-appreciated.

Skarlet:
-Dagger cancels are more annoying than useful Just a mind fuck on the screen that keeps the opponent scared to let go of block.
-f33 ex dagger cancel was underrated Can't comment.

Smoke:
-His resets are easily to hit than people say they are Practice makes perfect. As a non-Smoke player, they're easier than advertised, but harder than Jax or Cyrax.
-d1 smoke away is too strong and underused Yes and very frustrating to deal with.

Sonya:
-Stupid character AMEN!

Stryker:
-x-ray is more reliable than ex roll Stryker sucks. But that x-ray is God awful...idk.
-Has great AA options for jump ins (standing 4) and crossups (uppercut) Agreed.

Sub-Zero:
-22 is a great cross up AA Yes, especially that second 2.
-22slide is a man's way of finishing a round FOR SURE. Another way? If it's chip situation. f+4, 1+2....like a Grandmaster of the Lin Kuei BOSS!

Cyber Sub-Zero:
-Everyone knows how to make Cyber Sub-Zero better, but no one knows how to make him good Not sure...some players deserve credit for making him a legitimate character that can catch people off guard. Underrated character imo.
-Parry is overrated Overrated in the grand scheme of things. Within his tool set, it's very valuable and quite necessary. EX parry is underrated.
 
Will post a full reply later, just throwing out a quick correction:


Just for the record, GGA Han found completely guaranteed breaker trap setups that will launch you regardless of what you do.
Was it what chef posted? Because besides the backdash from net that's the one I was talking about. I guess sometimes when I did it I was too far away or too close or something. But thanks for the correction.
 
By the way Jax midscreen isn't top 10. But has one of the best corner games. If F41 hit mid on low hitbox characters then he may be top 10. Maybe.
 

Under_The_Mayo

Master of Quanculations
Cyrax:
-Cyrax would possibly drop out of top 5 if he didn't have his command grab
Disagree. I think where Cyrax gets you is that his strings move in a very deliberate 1 2 3 4 pace. Nothing looks to come out slower than anything else, so you never know when you can poke or move.

Johnny Cage:
-Standing 3 is insanely underrated as a footsies tool
Explain. All I know is input bug.

Kabal:
-Kabal's strongest point isn't his zoning or his pressure. His strongest is that you have to guess in every moment of the fight
Perfectly stated.

Kenshi:
-f32 can be armored out of, and no one abused that.
"Skill gap."

Nightwolf:
-f3 is amazing AND SHOULD BE A LOW
Make it an overhead so he can mix between D3 and F3, smoke style. Otherwise you could just guard low all day.
 

xInfra Deadx

Gimmick stolen by Jordan Peele
Baraka:
-The reason he is the best low tier character is because he has the best whiff punish in the game (blade charge).Not sure where you're going, but okay.
-Baraka's space control is top 5 within sweep distance Not when his normals are slow as shit.

Cyrax:
-Cyrax would possibly drop out of top 5 if he didn't have his command grab I'll buy that.
-Cyrax's breaker trap is the best find of the community, and rarely anyone uses it Brooooken.

Ermac:
-If Ermac had armor, he would be a top 10 contender I don't think so.
-More Ermacs need to start using lift as a whiff punish, when in sweep distance, rather than push Agreed.

Jax:
-Top 10 Nope.
-If f41 hit low hitboxes, he would be top 5 Nope.

Jade:
-Jade players need to start using d3 to counter jump ins rather than getting their normals stuffed She does get pretty low i'll say that much.
-Standing reset after b2 is her most underrated tool You're giving up too much damage for a standing reset...and knowing that she doesn't get great damage off her converts, it's not worth it. (Man does she suck :( )

Freddy Krueger:
-Green goo/ex green goo is such a powerful tool in the corner, and I rarely see it used Agreed.
-Freddy is strongest in the corner Nope.

Johnny Cage:
-Standing 3 is insanely underrated as a footsies tool Its reach is bad...
-f32 is insanely overrated It may be weaker than F33, but it's still good.

Kabal:
-Kabal's strongest point isn't his zoning or his pressure. His strongest is that you have to guess in every moment of the fight I don't see the point here...
-f32 buzzsaw/overhead is Kabal's strongest pressure tool Nope.

Kano:
-air ball is incredibly strong against projectiles Nope.
-jump kick air throw/jump kick d1 upball is his strongest option select Nope.

Kenshi:
-Kenshi vs Kung Lao really isn't that bad Of course if I say something about this, i'm gonna get scolded...but I agree.
-f32 can be armored out of, and no one abused that. hmm...did not know that...

Kitana:
-Jump kick fan is numero uno Footsies come first.
-Dash under ex lift should've been used more against crossups Ehh...don't know.

Kung Lao:
-The fear of the spin was Kung Lao's greatest threat, not his mobility It's a bit of both, but can be very scary to deal with.
-ex ground hat in the corner needed to be executed more Yessss....

Liu Kang:
-Dragon stance was super good More like super bill.
-With good fireballs, you can get a 4 instant air fireball juggle off of an opponent's single jump This has no point.

Mileena:
-U4 into 42 should've been used more often Pass.
-234 was a really, really underused string Pass.

Nightwolf:
-f3 is amazing AND SHOULD BE A LOW It wouldn't help much...if any at all.
-lightning swag combos automatically make him better than most of the cast Not by a long shot.

Noob Saibot:
-If he had higher damage output, outside of the corner, Noob could possibly be top 10 I would want to believe this, but I can't with the slow ass normals...
-Ex confuse was Noob's best special that nobody ever used, except for DR It's tight.

Quan Chi:
-Best d1 hitbox in the game Nope.
-Worst d1 startup frames in the game Yeah.

Raiden:
-b2f11+2 was a great string Complete piece of shit.
-jump kick superman option select were underused Maybe...

Reptile:
-Fast and slow projectiles gave Reptile an advantage in the zoning game Yep.
-Invisibility could have been used more Nope. It's a bill.

Rain:
-b2 ex roundhouse cancel leads to a full combo on his, and can't be interrupted on block Waste of meter, really...
-That water hand move is a really good spacing tool Meh, it's a poor man's Flame Burner.

Scorpion:
-d4 was a strong AA What?
-ex hellfire was an underrated combo ender Unless it kills, it's not worth it.

Sektor:
-Sektor does not beat Cyrax Agreed.
-jump kick is Sektor's best conditioning tool Yes.

Shang Tsung:
-One of the best pressure kits in the game Maybe.
-One of the worst escape kits in the game Yeah.

Sheeva:
-Amazing AA grab From experience, Yes.
-d3 crouch command grab is a bill I dunno.

Sindel:
-Most technical character to use Might be.
-Her corner resets were ridiculous Cannot compute a point on this.

Skarlet:
-Dagger cancels are more annoying than useful Unless it's regular daggers, then no.
-f33 ex dagger cancel was underrated Bill.

Smoke:
-His resets are easily to hit than people say they are I say yes to this and people better not downplay this character any more than on that (not) podcast...
-d1 smoke away is too strong and underused Don't really know...

Sonya:
-Stupid character Braaaaaaaaaaaaaaain-DEAD.

Stryker:
-x-ray is more reliable than ex roll lol
-Has great AA options for jump ins (standing 4) and crossups (uppercut) Don't know

Sub-Zero:
-22 is a great crossup AA Crossups exist? :confused:
-22slide is a man's way of finishing a round Nope.

Cyber Sub-Zero:
-Everyone knows how to make Cyber Sub-Zero better, but no one knows how to make him good More frame advantage on Dive Kicks
-Parry is overrated No it isn't.
 
Alright I'll one like these.

Baraka:
-The reason he is the best low tier character is because he has the best whiff punish in the game (blade charge).
I don't think so. I can think of several that are better.
-Baraka's space control is top 5 within sweep distance
Good yes. Top 5 no. Got Kabal, Sonya, Cyrax, Cage and possibly Mileena that are at least better.

Cyrax:
-Cyrax would possibly drop out of top 5 if he didn't have his command grab
Don't agree, but others have explained why so I'll just leave it at that.
-Cyrax's breaker trap is the best find of the community, and rarely anyone uses it
It definitely is underused.

Ermac:
-If Ermac had armor, he would be a top 10 contender
I would go with better strings and/or pokes. Armor would definitely help though.
-More Ermacs need to start using lift as a whiff punish, when in sweep distance, rather than push
Agree

Jax:
-Top 10
I've expressed my opinions in previous post.
-If f41 hit low hitboxes, he would be top 5
^^^^

Jade:
-Jade players need to start using d3 to counter jump ins rather than getting their normals stuffed
I know nothing about Jade but would want to hear what @coolwhip knows.
-Standing reset after b2 is her most underrated tool
^^^^

Freddy Krueger:
-Green goo/ex green goo is such a powerful tool in the corner, and I rarely see it used
It is powerful but I see it used all the time. @MiZ_FiT 88
-Freddy is strongest in the corner
No he's strongest fullscreen.

Johnny Cage:
-Standing 3 is insanely underrated as a footsies tool
No reason to with F3 and B3.
-f32 is insanely overrated
As previously stated I personally see no reason to use it but I don't main Cage so yeah.

Kabal:
-Kabal's strongest point isn't his zoning or his pressure. His strongest is that you have to guess in every moment of the fight
Definitely
-f32 buzzsaw/overhead is Kabal's strongest pressure tool
Opinion stated in previous post.

Kano:
-air ball is incredibly strong against projectiles
Maybe some.
-jump kick air throw/jump kick d1 upball is his strongest option select
As someone who doesn't even know his strings, I'll buy it.

Kenshi:
-Kenshi vs Kung Lao really isn't that bad
After 3 years still undecided.
-f32 can be armored out of, and no one abused that.
Didn't know that.

Kitana:
-Jump kick fan is numero uno
It's pretty good
-Dash under ex lift should've been used more against crossups
I guess

Kung Lao:
-The fear of the spin was Kung Lao's greatest threat, not his mobility
Agreed
-ex ground hat in the corner needed to be executed more
Again I agree with @coolwhip ex teleport is a better use of meter in the corner. Ex hat is too gimmicky.

Liu Kang:
-Dragon stance was super good
How?
-With good fireballs, you can get a 4 instant air fireball juggle off of an opponent's single jump

Mileena:
-U4 into 42 should've been used more often
@SonicFox5000 does that.
-234 was a really, really underused string
I actually agree with this.

Nightwolf:
-f3 is amazing AND SHOULD BE A LOW
Giving its animation it would make more sense.
-lightning swag combos automatically make him better than most of the cast
No

Noob Saibot:
-If he had higher damage output, outside of the corner, Noob could possibly be top 10
I can see that.
-Ex confuse was Noob's best special that nobody ever used, except for DR
I've seen it a few times. Probably still underused I dont know.

Quan Chi:
-Best d1 hitbox in the game
-Worst d1 startup frames in the game
Kinda makes it irrelevant

Raiden:
-b2f11+2 was a great string
Meh
-jump kick superman option select were underused
Maybe but I've seen it quite a bit.

Reptile:
-Fast and slow projectiles gave Reptile an advantage in the zoning game
-Invisibility could have been used more
Too gimmicky for me.

Rain:
-b2 ex roundhouse cancel leads to a full combo on his, and can't be interrupted on block
-That water hand move is a really good spacing tool

Scorpion:
-d4 was a strong AA
Maybe but he had other options.
-ex hellfire was an underrated combo ender
As a round ender maybe.

Sektor:
-Sektor does not beat Cyrax
Agreed
-jump kick is Sektor's best conditioning tool
I don't know

Shang Tsung:
-One of the best pressure kits in the game
-One of the worst escape kits in the game

Sheeva:
-Amazing AA grab
-d3 crouch command grab is a bill

Sindel:
-Most technical character to use
Levi cancels aren't that hard. I'd rather see more midscreen damage.
-Her corner resets were ridiculous

Skarlet:
-Dagger cancels are more annoying than useful
-f33 ex dagger cancel was underrated

Smoke:
-His resets are easily to hit than people say they are
-d1 smoke away is too strong and underused
This. All this ^^^^

Sonya:
-Stupid character
:DOGE

Stryker:
-x-ray is more reliable than ex roll
-Has great AA options for jump ins (standing 4) and crossups (uppercut)
I know nothing about Stryker except he's free lol

Sub-Zero:
-22 is a great crossup AA
Good but not great
-22slide is a man's way of finishing a round
As well as B1 slide and 224 slide actually works probably more than it should.

Cyber Sub-Zero:
-Everyone knows how to make Cyber Sub-Zero better, but no one knows how to make him good
-Parry is overrated
Not really.
 

BillStickers

Do not touch me again.
Baraka:
-The reason he is the best low tier character is because he has the best whiff punish in the game (blade charge). Blade charge was just one of many great tools baraka has. Insane corner game, good mixups, and a good frame trap were other reasons for his higher placement.
-Baraka's space control is top 5 within sweep distance I can't find a reason to disagree with this.

Cyrax:
-Cyrax would possibly drop out of top 5 if he didn't have his command grab Possibly.
-Cyrax's breaker trap is the best find of the community, and rarely anyone uses it It was found near the end of the game's lifetime, was it not? Some late tech finds were lost in the shuffle.

Ermac:
-If Ermac had armor, he would be a top 10 contender Disagree. Ermac's lack of speed keeps him from being good, not his lack of armor. If people were going around interrupting all of Ermac's strings I might be inclined to agree with you, but Ermac's main problem was that people could just sit and block until you forced them to stop.
-More Ermacs need to start using lift as a whiff punish, when in sweep distance, rather than push Push has a better hitbox imo and is safer. Lift would definitely get more damage out of the situation though.

Jax:
-Top 10 Disagree. Just outside, IMO.
-If f41 hit low hitboxes, he would be top 5 I'm not sure why you say that.

Jade:
-Jade players need to start using d3 to counter jump ins rather than getting their normals stuffed I'll try it.
-Standing reset after b2 is her most underrated tool Actually I think f23~ex up boomerang and b3f2 are more underrated. But yeah her reset was pretty underrated. People who played the low tiers a lot eventually figured out how to get out of it, though :(

Freddy Krueger:
-Green goo/ex green goo is such a powerful tool in the corner, and I rarely see it used I see it used :/
-Freddy is strongest in the corner I probably fear Sonya and Baraka more in the corner tbh.

Johnny Cage:
-Standing 3 is insanely underrated as a footsies tool I guess so since I only use it when I screw up my inputs lol (s3~flipkick for days).
-f32 is insanely overrated What is this, Evo 2011?

Kabal:
-Kabal's strongest point isn't his zoning or his pressure. His strongest is that you have to guess in every moment of the fight (As a result of his zoning and pressure tools)
-f32 buzzsaw/overhead is Kabal's strongest pressure tool I think I fear f4 more when I'm in the Kabal pressure cooker.

Kano:
-air ball is incredibly strong against projectiles Disagree. It's insanely baitable by varying your projectile cadence.
-jump kick air throw/jump kick d1 upball is his strongest option select lol what about b112 and b1 throw.

Kenshi:
-Kenshi vs Kung Lao really isn't that bad It was 5-5 or 6-4 Kenshi as of the last tier list before Injustice.
-f32 can be armored out of, and no one abused that. Because you have to worry about f3~ex rising karma.

Kitana:
-Jump kick fan is numero uno Shades of @Trepound380 <3
-Dash under ex lift should've been used more against crossups Shades of @xKhaoTik <3

Kung Lao:
-The fear of the spin was Kung Lao's greatest threat, not his mobility Yes.
-ex ground hat in the corner needed to be executed more It's even kinda good midscreen.

Liu Kang:
-Dragon stance was super good IDK, Dragon Stance always seemed unfinished by design to me since most of the moves are already in his moveset.
-With good fireballs, you can get a 4 instant air fireball juggle off of an opponent's single jump Cool!

Mileena:
-U4 into 42 should've been used more often It was used a lot. Check out @SonicFox5000 sometime :p
-234 was a really, really underused string It was used a lot. Check out @SonicFox5000 sometime :p

Nightwolf:
-f3 is amazing AND SHOULD BE A LOW #YEAAAAP.
-lightning swag combos automatically make him better than most of the cast pfffffft.

Noob Saibot:
-If he had higher damage output, outside of the corner, Noob could possibly be top 10 Yeah he'd be on par with Kitana probably. Possibly better.
-Ex confuse was Noob's best special that nobody ever used, except for DR Online bro!

Quan Chi:
-Best d1 hitbox in the game @STB Shujinkydink once anti-air d1'd me online on PS Vita with it, so I'm inclined to agree lol.
-Worst d1 startup frames in the game Yeah isn't it like 12 frames or something?

Raiden:
-b2f11+2 was a great string Nothing about Raiden is great.
-jump kick superman option select were underused Yeah probably. Unless it makes superman hit sometimes or something and then you get full combo'd.

Reptile:
-Fast and slow projectiles gave Reptile an advantage in the zoning game Yep.
-Invisibility could have been used more d4~du4 is fun to troll with

Rain:
-b2 ex roundhouse cancel leads to a full combo on his, and can't be interrupted on block Cool! Doesn't it also have insane pushback, though? What's the followup for the full combo?
-That water hand move is a really good spacing tool I don't think it worked all that well for me.

Scorpion:
-d4 was a strong AA I'll take your word for it since I don't play Scorp that much.
-ex hellfire was an underrated combo ender How so? I was under the impression Scorp needed all the meter he could get.

Sektor:
-Sektor does not beat Cyrax Yeah IMO he hasn't beaten Cyrax since at least mid-2012 meta.
-jump kick is Sektor's best conditioning tool He has a lot of good conditioning tools.

Shang Tsung:
-One of the best pressure kits in the game Yeaaap.
-One of the worst escape kits in the game Yeaaap.

Sheeva:
-Amazing AA grab No because she has to commit to it. It's super punishable if you guess wrong. IMO in most cases d2, d1, s2, s4, and EX~grab n punch are all better. Hell, even f3 works sometimes.
-d3 crouch command grab is a bill Yeah kinda. Most people jump all over Sheeva anyway :(

Sindel:
-Most technical character to use I guess I agree depending on what you mean. Do I think she'd be secret top 10 even with perfect execution and tech? Probably not.
-Her corner resets were ridiculous Yep.

Skarlet:
-Dagger cancels are more annoying than useful Nahh.
-f33 ex dagger cancel was underrated I agree but a lot of Skarlet players don't agree, saying that the advantage is too crappy. I give props to Scar for being the only Skarlet player to use it.

Smoke:
-His resets are easily to hit than people say they are Yeah if you are a Smoke main you really have no reason not to hit them consistently.
-d1 smoke away is too strong and underused I think I see it used a decent amount. Lots of d1~evade options are said to be underused in MK it seems (e.g. Freddy, Smoke, etc.)

Sonya:
-Stupid character Sonya is bae

Stryker:
-x-ray is more reliable than ex roll lol spread em
-Has great AA options for jump ins (standing 4) and crossups (uppercut) I mean yeah until you compare them to Kabal's options.

Sub-Zero:
-22 is a great crossup AA Is it? Don't know that I've seen that before. I'll check it out.
-22slide is a man's way of finishing a round That's some cybersub tech right there.

Cyber Sub-Zero:
-Everyone knows how to make Cyber Sub-Zero better, but no one knows how to make him good He's already kinda good, though, isn't he? Aside from getting bopped by zoners....
-Parry is overrated lol Guamo pls
 

GuamoKun

I Break Hearts, Not Combos
Cyber Sub-Zero:
-Everyone knows how to make Cyber Sub-Zero better, but no one knows how to make him good He's already kinda good, though, isn't he? Aside from getting bopped by zoners....
-Parry is overrated lol Guamo pls
Shut up I think parry is great I use it full screen against people to taunt them shut your mouth I hate you
 
With the last three (NEC, KiT, SCR) major Mortal Kombat 9 tournaments nearing, ya boi Soup has thought of some things that could be debated and fleshed out.


Baraka: yes, if you can't punish cahrge he is good... it is more about spacing and being a threat, and less about anything else


Cyrax: no command grab, lackluster pressure, yup


Ermac: depends on the armor, yup


Jax:
-Top 10 no in the tier of low top teners
-If f41 hit low hitboxes, he would be top 5, yes

Jade:
-her anti-air 1 is fine, see oscar broly

Freddy Krueger:
-Green goo/ex green goo is such a powerful tool in the corner, and I rarely see it used: noone players freddy
-jax

Johnny Cage:
-Standing 3 is insanely underrated as a footsies tool: creates space, all it's good for, not hit confirmable
-f32 is insanely overrated: is used for advancing more safely and baiting pokes, it's fine, noone says it's op

Kabal:
-without his counter-zoning and zoning control he wouldn't be that great, buzzsaw wins a lot of matchups
-f32 buzzsaw/overhead is Kabal's strongest pressure tool: depends on the hitbox and punishment of the characters, block infinites are op

Kano:
-air ball is incredibly strong against projectiles : if done on reaction, depends on the matchup, risk reward.
-i don't know about his oses

Kenshi:
-Kenshi vs Kung Lao really isn't that bad: it's defintely not even, with counters for reflect and his mobility and ability to punish your footsies tools it is tough, kenshi's only saving graces are down 3 and armo
-f32 can be armored out of, and no one abused that.: fine

Kitana:
-Jump kick fan is numero uno: fine
-Dash under ex lift should've been used more against crossups: depends on how quick and good it is for punishing

Kung Lao:
-The fear of the spin was Kung Lao's greatest threat, not his mobility
-ex ground hat in the corner needed to be executed more

Liu Kang:
-Dragon stance was super good : only good as a footsies tool and for spacing creation and gimmicks, underused but not "super good"
-With good fireballs, you can get a 4 instant air fireball juggle off of an opponent's single jump: fine

Mileena:
-U4 into 42 should've been used more often : or up 4 into up4
-234 was a really, really underused string: who the fuck cares about mileena

Nightwolf:
-f3 is amazing AND SHOULD BE A LOW : it's decent and fine
-lightning swag combos automatically make him better than most of the cast: nightwolf sucks

Noob Saibot:
-If he had higher damage output, outside of the corner, Noob could possibly be top 10 : depends, his best tools aren't about punishment, maybe more combo options or like an ex teleport for damage than yes, otherwise, he's all spacing grabs and stuff and widdling the opponent down
-Ex confuse was Noob's best special that nobody ever used, except for DR : portals.

Quan Chi:
-Best d1 hitbox in the game: see scorpion, wait trolling???
-Worst d1 startup frames in the game: see somberness

Raiden:
-b2f11+2 was a great string: how was this string any good??? the pacing of it is tricky, but it's super slow startup, requires meter to hit confirm, and is kind of more about catching them not knowing what the fuck is going on rather than being meat and potatoes good.
-jump kick superman option select were underused: heh????

Reptile:
-Fast and slow projectiles gave Reptile an advantage in the zoning game: um, reptile is an amazing zoner... but not really controversial
um f2 invis

Rain:
-b2 ex roundhouse cancel leads to a full combo on his, and can't be interrupted on block : not an opinion
-That water hand move is a really good spacing tool: depends what your definition of really good and moderate utility is.

Scorpion:
-d4 was a strong AA : see @Booty Slaya
-ex hellfire was an underrated combo ender : asod;asldkq1s;pekoqpdkqsl;da;l

Sektor:
-Sektor does not beat Cyrax : cyrax has no command grab pressure, no ability to zone and worst spacing.
-jump kick is Sektor's best conditioning tool: i mean if you want to play that guessing game sure, back 1 is good also

Shang Tsung:
-One of the best pressure kits in the game: pretty good for building meter
-One of the worst escape kits in the game : ex soul steal +1 on block, amazing pokes

I'll add my own: upskulls for zoning are underused, and ex upskulls for a low/oh mixup are very underused

Sheeva:
-Amazing AA grab: depends on your definition of amazing
-d3 crouch command grab is a bill: she has to use bills

Sindel:
-Most technical character to use: see @ oscar broly
-Her corner resets were ridiculous: maybe

Skarlet:
-Dagger cancels are more annoying than useful: dagger cancel can be used as an anti-air into a reset and controls/limits movement and shuts down zoning... but your right totally useless.
-f33 ex dagger cancel was underrated : probably 3 people know what f33 is

Smoke:
-His resets are easily to hit than people say they are : so vague and not worth it
-d1 smoke away is too strong and underused: yes, but once again most people suck

Sonya:
-Stupid character: completely agree 100%

Stryker:
-x-ray is more reliable than ex roll: maybe more reliable, but i'd rather have ex roll or ex-ray 100%
-Has great AA options for jump ins (standing 4) and crossups (uppercut): great in comparision to who??? pretty good i'd say, definetly completely functionaly... don't jump at stryker, crouch and giggle

Sub-Zero:
-22 is a great crossup AA : probably
-22slide is a man's way of finishing a round : yes

Cyber Sub-Zero:
-Everyone knows how to make Cyber Sub-Zero better, but no one knows how to make him good :
-Parry is overrated, yeah 1 frame combo starters that anti-jump normals and force you to guess whether you should swing at him is totally not a super great tool on a kind of bad character
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
Skarlet:
1-Dagger cancels are more annoying than useful
2-f33 ex dagger cancel was underrated
1. The whole point of ground dagger is to annoy ppl in order to force punishable actions from them, though against some characters ground daggers can be a double edged sword iaD is not, since those can't be trade off on projectile wars, Skarlet will mostly win by firing the dagger first and be able to block any other projectile in time.

2. It has the least cancel advantage either on hit or block, doesn't cop out for the mixup you can get from. It pays off if the opponent gets hit by the dagger trying to do something else, which allows a free jump in, on block only grands a interruptible blockstring and which the setup might not be worth at all since it can also be jumped off even in the corner. Ppl only get hit by is sometimes because its a tech that is hardly used, its not something worth relying on 100% on more experienced players who fight Skarlet on daily basis.


ps: Stop telling me how i should've played my character :DOGE
 

ExoticAbuse

★Two Hands★
Jade:
- Abuse the shit out of Jade's D3 and Sweep since against Raiden's Fly with the right timing you will not get hit, you can D3 Kabal out of Nomad Dash (works offline too), Nightwolf out of Shoulder Charge and miss/poke out many other moves as well.

- Jade's B3 is underrated when really it's helpful.