Hey Bane players,
I wanted to continue conversation about the KF matchup here. Apparently we aren't allowed to actually analyze the MU on the KF forums, so reposting the last point of substantive discussion here to get your thoughts:
- Bane doesn't have to use meter on his bnbs. He also deals high damage with single moves. This makes round 2 fall into his favor. The extra meter means he's going to win clashes, and he can deal decent unclashable damage himself. On top of that, he can close out the round with 70% combos with full meter.
- Interactables play massively to Bane's advantage. He gets a nice damage boost on them with venom, and his armor prevents him from getting knocked down by them much of the time.
Moving on to some of your points:
Bane really struggles to get in against Frost's zoning if he is not in level 3 trait, and it is not that hard to get full screen against him since his quick ways in are heavily punishable.
Disagree completely. Banes aren't using Raging Charge to get in anymore. His dash buff lets him dash between KF daggers, and it only takes 2 dashes to get in from full screen. The only frame trap available is daggers to iceberg, but if he blocks the iceberg, it deals very little chip and gives him a free dash on your recovery.
Zoning here won't keep a patient Bane out. It'll only build you some meter, deal very minor chip, and give you advantage when he dashes into slide or air dash range.
Bane's venom oki game is very good, but most of that is bait-able into huge punishes. The threat of parry forces the Bane player to respect it and look at other armored options which limits what the KF player has to look out for to punish.
There's no baiting or limiting options. Bane can do one of three things on wakeup: (1) meaty b2; (2) command grab; or (3) double punch. Each of these options on hit lead back into the same oki if set up correctly.
KF has the following options:
- Wakeup slide. Beats meaty b2, loses to command grab and double punch.
- Parry. Beats double punch, loses to command grab and meaty b2.
- Jump. Beats command grab, loses to double punch and meaty b2.
As you can see, KF only has a 1/3 chance of guessing right in each circumstance. There's no limiting it.
If KF guesses right, she does get a full combo punish into vortex. And if she parries armor, she gets more damage than usual. But she only has a 1/3 chance of getting that guess.
On the flip side, command grab MB does 32% in level 3 venom, and b23, 11xxcommand grab MB does 43%. And b23, 113~super deals 60%. With the chip damage on his specials and the damage you ate to get knocked down in the first place, it doesn't take long to die. The payoff matrix is likely in KF's favor, but not by as much as you think.
Beyond your comments, there are other difficulties for KF in this matchup.
- Her offense can be tough to get going. Midscreen venomed raging charge checks slide and airdashes and puts a lot of pressure on KF due to the high chip. You have to play completely reactionary.
- KF has a hard time catching a Bane who prudently avoids risk when he's about to go on venom debuff. Jump back body splash beats jump ins and stuffs slide most of the time. Her only option to close in and start offense is via dash, which is stuffed by pretty much everything else, particularly d1. The only time you'll likely really get a reward from venom debuff is on your first vortex attempt after the previous combo drains his venom time.
I tend to agree with Doombawks. This matchup is imo a 5-5 on stages that favor Bane (Themyscira, Rooftop, etc.) and a 6-4 on neutral stages (Batcave etc.). In no circumstance is this matchup a 7-3.
