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"You're No Warrior!"- Hawkgirl General Discussion (1.06 and onward)

Espio

Baraka Is Jade's Gay BFF.
Lead Moderator
Born on the planet Thanagar, Shayera Hol joined the police force in her adolescent years and grew to become one of the planet’s fiercest warriors and most decorated officers. During an assignment, Shayera chased a criminal to Earth and became fascinated by the planet and its people. After capturing and delivering the fugitive to Thanagar, Shayera decided to return to Earth and use her experience as a force of good to bring the same level of justice to her new home as she did her old as the high-flying hero known as Hawkgirl.

Hawkgirl’s abilities stem from the mysterious gravity-defyting Nth metal only native to her home planet of Thanagar. The metal serves as the basis for much of the planet’s technological advancements and makes the Thanagarian weapon system unique throughout the galaxy.

The metal, coupled with a synthetic pair of wings, allows Hawkgirl to fly and also grants her enhanced strength and the ability to heal more quickly from injury. In battle, she wields swords and maces forged from the mysterious alloy, which allow her to disrupt magic and deflect blasts of energy. However, regardless of her weapons powerful properties, Shayera is an expert warrior and is incredibly deadly with her trusty mace.

Shayera is dedicated to the pursuit of justice and uses all of her skills and abilities to battle those that would harm the innocent. Her penchant for violence honed growing up on her home planet often makes other heroes and law enforcement from Earth uneasy. Yet despite her warlike nature, Hawkgirl is viewed by both friend and foe as a warrior for justice that will protect the planet and its people with her very life.

Link to old General Discussion Thread: http://testyourmight.com/threads/the-power-nth-hawkgirl-general-discussion-thread.28179/



Discuss Hawkgirl post patch and onward
 
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HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
News Editor
I ain't happy with the new Mace Charge. If your opponent's at the right distance, it's easier to punish than it once was when she swings back for the MB. Seems to catch people when then aren't expecting it more often than not, not because it was really improved. Just my two cents

How bout them MU's? I think Superman may have edged into HG's favor (would have called it even pre-patch)

And I throw something else out, who else hates mirrors? Her combo starting strings are so slow (least the ones I use) it turns into a who can D2 first battle with Mace Charge for flair
 

Espio

Baraka Is Jade's Gay BFF.
Lead Moderator
I ain't happy with the new Mace Charge. If your opponent's at the right distance, it's easier to punish than it once was when she swings back for the MB. Seems to catch people when then aren't expecting it more often than not, not because it was really improved. Just my two cents

How bout them MU's? I think Superman may have edged into HG's favor (would have called it even pre-patch)

And I throw something else out, who else hates mirrors? Her combo starting strings are so slow (least the ones I use) it turns into a who can D2 first battle with Mace Charge for flair

Haven't run into any problems with the new MB mace charge as of yet, so far it has saved me against Shazam's wake up teleports and got me more damage, but I don't doubt there are some drawbacks to go along with it, everything has a little bit of both usually.


I don't really mind mirrors, I often play Sunfire in them and they're okay...only a couple match ups I hate playing with her and oddly enough they're not even her really bad match ups generally lol.

All of her combo strings are pretty average speed to fairly fast to be honest(plus they're all safe too). Considering her slowest string starter is 15 frames and the general speeds range from 12 frames to 15 frames at worst. Her only slow normals are back 3 and forward 3 and that's whatever.

Down 1 is 6 frames, down 2 is 9 frames, forward 1 is 6 frames and launches for full combo mid screen and in the corner.
 

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
News Editor
Haven't run into any problems with the new MB mace charge as of yet, so far it has saved me against Shazam's wake up teleports and got me more damage, but I don't doubt there are some drawbacks to go along with it, everything has a little bit of both usually.


I don't really mind mirrors, I often play Sunfire in them and they're okay...only a couple match ups I hate playing with her and oddly enough they're not even her really bad match ups generally lol.

All of her combo strings are pretty average speed to fairly fast to be honest(plus they're all safe too). Considering her slowest string starter is 15 frames and the general speeds range from 12 frames to 15 frames at worst. Her only slow normals are back 3 and forward 3 and that's whatever.

Down 1 is 6 frames, down 2 is 9 frames, forward 1 is 6 frames and launches for full combo mid screen and full screen.
I feel I should clarify, the strings I use aren't fast enough to beat her D1 :p. I'm not gonna pretend to be an expert, my HG needs work and don't play enough. I'm mainly trying to get some life here
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
I am happy with her <3 Well he didn't change much & i am happy that MB Mace charge ato corrects now <3 !! As of her MU's i think that only Superman changed & it's 6-4 for Hawkgirl now
 

EMPEROR_THEO

I only use characters with wakeup scoops.
Whats that one move Hawkgirl has that's punishable on block?

Also, Hawkgirl never was and never will be a counterpick to Superman. Hawkgirl dominates characters who have no air control whatsoever. Superman is not one of those characters. Hawkgirls that turtle on the upper right/upper left corner of the screen only give Superman an opportunity to buffer meter with his straight laser, and God forbid if you get hit with one of those on the way down.

Superman's F23 works as a great counterpoke to some of Hawkgirl's pressure, and if Hawkgirls decide to Mace charge and/or Wing Evade out of Superman's pressure, they are suspectible to getting MBB3ed.

Any thoughts?
 

Espio

Baraka Is Jade's Gay BFF.
Lead Moderator
Whats that one move Hawkgirl has that's punishable on block?

Also, Hawkgirl never was and never will be a counterpick to Superman. Hawkgirl dominates characters who have no air control whatsoever. Superman is not one of those characters. Hawkgirls that turtle on the upper right/upper left corner of the screen only give Superman an opportunity to buffer meter with his straight laser, and God forbid if you get hit with one of those on the way down.

Superman's F23 works as a great counterpoke to some of Hawkgirl's pressure, and if Hawkgirls decide to Mace charge and/or Wing Evade out of Superman's pressure, they are suspectible to getting MBB3ed.

Any thoughts?

I think it's 5-5 and I thought she probably lost 4-6 pre-patch with his ability to punish mace charge, superior ranged footsies on forward 2,3 etc.

Winning off of zoning Superman out and staying primarily in the air just isn't enough and won't cut it when you're fighting a good Superman, you need a complete Hawkgirl to compete with him.


Everyone can punish mace charge with MB back 3 so I don't want to factor that into a match up and if wing evade 3 is spaced correctly it goes through MB back 3 (dunno if you remember seeing me do that sometimes from our sets or not).

I agree that Superman has never struggled against her, lack of match up knowledge played and in some cases still plays a role in that perception.
 

EMPEROR_THEO

I only use characters with wakeup scoops.
I think it's 5-5 and I thought she probably lost 4-6 pre-patch with his ability to punish mace charge, superior ranged footsies on forward 2,3 etc.

Winning off of zoning Superman out and staying primarily in the air just isn't enough and won't cut it when you're fighting a good Superman, you need a complete Hawkgirl to compete with him.


Everyone can punish mace charge with MB back 3 so I don't want to factor that into a match up and if wing evade 3 is spaced correctly it goes through MB back 3 (dunno if you remember seeing me do that sometimes from our sets or not).

I agree that Superman has never struggled against her, lack of match up knowledge played and in some cases still plays a role in that perception.
Well said. I just think Hawkgirl is one of those characters that will struggle once people understand all the holes, pluses, and minuses in her pressure (Jax in MK9), and when those holes are recognized by an intimidating character like Superman, bad things happen. And I feel that in the zoning war, Superman can attack Hawkgirl from more places and angles than Hawkgirl can attack him, there is no reason for Superman to play Hawkgirl's game in the zoning war unless its a huge life disadvantage.

Superman has a really fast air normal for punishing any sort of air-to-air read, and his air dash/air-backdash is awesome for whiff-punishes. I know what I'm saying is shallow, but I've never really had a problem with this MU as Superman, but it still remains to be seen.

By all means, someone prove me wrong, but I say its 6-4 Superman until (sorry I put this in a shallow way), a Hawkgirl player can beat me in a long set.
 

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
News Editor
Well said. I just think Hawkgirl is one of those characters that will struggle once people understand all the holes, pluses, and minuses in her pressure (Jax in MK9), and when those holes are recognized by an intimidating character like Superman, bad things happen. And I feel that in the zoning war, Superman can attack Hawkgirl from more places and angles than Hawkgirl can attack him, there is no reason for Superman to play Hawkgirl's game in the zoning war unless its a huge life disadvantage.

Superman has a really fast air normal for punishing any sort of air-to-air read, and his air dash/air-backdash is awesome for whiff-punishes. I know what I'm saying is shallow, but I've never really had a problem with this MU as Superman, but it still remains to be seen.

By all means, someone prove me wrong, but I say its 6-4 Superman until (sorry I put this in a shallow way), a Hawkgirl player can beat me in a long set.
My two cents, Hawkgirl undisputedly controls the air in that MU. Having said that, it doesn't matter that much, unless you are using the Air Lasers too much (a good HG would just bop you with a Mace Toss when you go up). As Espio said, a lot of it is just bad MU knowledge, his upward grab move (don't know the name of that special, where he flies up?) does wonders on a HG who's camping the skies. I agree that he beats her on the ground, but I'd still call that a solid 5-5 because he isn't dominant over her ground game and he can't zone her out as well as pre-1.06.

And yeah, a MB B3 stuff Mace Charge. People figured this out against Doomsday's Supernova like the first week, hasn't sunk in with HG yet (my friends are just now starting to punish me with it). And if you time it well, you can actually just jump over it (haven't had it done recently, but I've seent it!).

Inb4 someone quotes my "not an expert" comment
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Well said. I just think Hawkgirl is one of those characters that will struggle once people understand all the holes, pluses, and minuses in her pressure (Jax in MK9), and when those holes are recognized by an intimidating character like Superman, bad things happen. And I feel that in the zoning war, Superman can attack Hawkgirl from more places and angles than Hawkgirl can attack him, there is no reason for Superman to play Hawkgirl's game in the zoning war unless its a huge life disadvantage.

Superman has a really fast air normal for punishing any sort of air-to-air read, and his air dash/air-backdash is awesome for whiff-punishes. I know what I'm saying is shallow, but I've never really had a problem with this MU as Superman, but it still remains to be seen.

By all means, someone prove me wrong, but I say its 6-4 Superman until (sorry I put this in a shallow way), a Hawkgirl player can beat me in a long set.
Exactly, people complains about her & what they actually need is to learn the MU. Superman, i haven't played this mu so much, i have been working on my Zatanna <3 But i'll keep it as 5-5 atm tho. She can be pretty annoying to fight
 
To me, it's 5-5 but I like HGs chances. Superman deals more and big damage so it can never be in HG's advantage.

However, the air belongs to HG. air lasers don't hit her when she flies to the top of the screen and she can connect with air horizontal mace toss to hit him. With those out of the way, ground movement while she's in the air is dictated by diagonal Mace tosses, and off-beat air MCs. Yeah, Superman can do the air grab. But that's what the off beat air MCs are for. And "waiting for her to land"...... I just don't understand who flies in the air and flies around until the timer runs out. Stop trying to play keepaway. She's a hit&run character. You can keepaway every now and then as HG unless you're facing NW or KF or Bane, AKA characters who can't do jack to keep her from flying.

The ground would be even if Superman didn't do great damage off punishes or if HG didn't do putrid damage outside of the corner. Fact is, HG's D2 and MC handle anything after F23 pressure and close off his options. D2 shuts down all air dash shenanigans that aren't after she's knocked down. Superman can mix you up and make it real tough to know which way to block and do big damage in mid-screen off a knockdown. HG doesn't even have a really legit HKD (fuck you NRS) to really nuke his wakeups with her 3~WE tech.

And you don't punish MC with MB B3. You anticipate it/make a read. BIG difference.
 

Espio

Baraka Is Jade's Gay BFF.
Lead Moderator
Happy Holidays to all!

How is everyone doing?

Okay so there's quite a few topics I wanted to talk about especially since things have been quiet lately like with Hawkgirl's pressure.

A lot of her string staggers are around +1 (back 2/2/1) and I feel like we could/should be adding more complex layers to our pressure games. Down 1, wing evade 3 etc are good, but imagine how much more potent her pressure would be in a more fully fleshed out way to include all of her mix ups like back 2,2, MB mace charge + 2,2, up 3 and the list goes on. I feel like her pressure with all of her safe strings and special is awesome as is, but the more layers we add to it the better.

The oki with 3 wing evade is talked about a lot, but I rarely see it put into use though it is obviously extremely useful in its own right, I'm trying to remember to incorporate it more myself.

Wing evade fake outs: people are starting to try baiting wing evade 3's out more. Which isn't a big deal as this adds more depth to our meta game, mix ups and strategy. We always have the option to do wing evade into nothing or wing evade into trait, mace toss etc to keep people guessing and not getting too comfortable with our tendencies, this has actually made playing her much more interesting for me now that people have been adapting.

Tiger Wong put me more in the mindset of using after a close on hit wing evade 3 to use wing evade 2 for oki pressure since it crosses up, this is really good and as is commonly know even if they block the cross up correctly you're still at plus four. The other thing I noticed about this is even if my flip kick missed against say Aquaman and he did From The Deep, his inputs were reversed similar to Doomsday's corner reveral tech which still allows for Hawkgirl to punish for full combo into something like 1,2,3 etc.


This is a long rant, but I want to get people thinking more and discussing her again. She has a lot more depth than she's actually given credit for overall.
 
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NurzBenny

Old Member
Premium Supporter
Really want to start using back 2,2 wing evade 2 more. Theory, training mode, and match are all 3 unique beasts though
 

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
News Editor
Really want to start using back 2,2 wing evade 2 more. Theory, training mode, and match are all 3 unique beasts though
I'll use her back 2 strings in the corner A LOT. I think Back 2 2 UP 3 (I think) to combo and when they decide to block that, I'll switch to Back 2, 2, 3 to make them start guessing. As for her WE2, I've recently been using it not only for it's cross-up potential but it's an easy way to reverse wakeup's, all you have to do is just dash in. Probably not secret, but I haven't seen it used a lot in that regard
 

NurzBenny

Old Member
Premium Supporter
Saw a vid using wing evade 3 as the get from afar and we 2 as the cross up on wake up but never thought to JUST DO IT on there wake up standing next to them. I like I like. Supes will auto correct himself into a good wake up either way, but this is nice.
 

HellblazerHawkman

Confused Thanagarian
News Editor
Saw a vid using wing evade 3 as the get from afar and we 2 as the cross up on wake up but never thought to JUST DO IT on there wake up standing next to them. I like I like. Supes will auto correct himself into a good wake up either way, but this is nice.
It's a little tricky to pull off, if you aren't directly next to the other guy, she won't flip over them, just in front. Really handy for keeping your pressure on though
 

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Happy Holidays to all!

How is everyone doing?

Okay so there's quite a few topics I wanted to talk about especially since things have been quiet lately like with Hawkgirl's pressure.

A lot of her string staggers are around +1 (back 2/2/1) and I feel like we could/should be adding more complex layers to our pressure games. Down 1, wing evade 3 etc are good, but imagine how much more potent her pressure would be in a more fully fleshed out way to include all of her mix ups like back 2,2, MB mace charge + 2,2, up 3 and the list goes on. I feel like her pressure with all of her safe strings and special is awesome as is, but the more layers we add to it the better.

The oki with 3 wing evade is talked about a lot, but I rarely see it put into use though it is obviously extremely useful in its own right, I'm trying to remember to incorporate it more myself.

Wing evade fake outs: people are starting to try baiting wing evade 3's out more. Which isn't a big deal as this adds more depth to our meta game, mix ups and strategy. We always have the option to do wing evade into nothing or wing evade into trait, mace toss etc to keep people guessing and not getting too comfortable with our tendencies, this has actually made playing her much more interesting for me now that people have been adapting.

Tiger Wong put me more in the mindset of using after a close on hit wing evade 3 to use wing evade 2 for oki pressure since it crosses up, this is really good and as is commonly know even if they block the cross up correctly you're still at plus four. The other thing I noticed about this is even if my flip kick missed against say Aquaman and he did From The Deep, his inputs were reversed similar to Doomsday's corner reveral tech which still allows for Hawkgirl to punish for full combo into something like 1,2,3 etc.


This is a long rant, but I want to get people thinking more and discussing her again. She has a lot more depth than she's actually given credit for overall.
Yeah, i think she just became way more interesting to use now as well. What i do to slap the people who tries to punish our WE(3) is that i cancel it into other things or i delay it. I love connecting D1~WE(3) since it gives us a "50/50" you end in your opponents face so you can jump forward & insta dk for a crossup or jump backwards & insta dk for s not crossup, but this is just a gimmick since it can be tech rolled. I also love using B2,2,3/B2,3 And some other things for her pressure, i love 1,2~WE(2) since on hit it gives us a full combo & on block we get a free D1~mace charge or D1~WE(3) I think her pressue game is WAY more deep than D1~WE/Mace Charge just like a lot of people think.
 

ChatterBox

Searching for an alt.
I've recently started doing WExx4 MC on both mine and opponents wakeups to throw off people's timing. It catches most, if not all, characters who do a jump back 2 on her wakeup.