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Question Your Mentality about Cross-Ups

GamerBlake90

Blue Blurs for Life!
Before anything else, this thread is not designed to share counter-measures against cross-up tactics. If you want to learn what those measures are and/or want to add to the list, go to this thread created by xKhaoTikx.

http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/how-to-deal-with-opponents-who-cross-up.27877/

Also, no, this is not a thread designed to petition for silly patches to any fighting games regarding the cross-up tactic. If you came here just for that reason, I hate to disappoint you. We are simply giving feedback on what we think, no more, no less, so let's keep it like that.

That aside...what is your general outlook on cross-ups? It doesn't have to apply only to Mortal Kombat, it can concern any fighting game you play...with the likely exception of 3D fighters, since you generally sidestep in those and don't see a lot of crossing up going on.

Do you see this as a scrub-friendly tactic, or one that actually has some merit? Do you find them annoying to contend with, or are they hardly an issue for you? Does it add depth to a fighting game or take away from it for you? Whether you've played online or offline, don't hesitate to pour your thoughts out.

I'll start with mine.

I hate them with a passion. It might just be me, but I've always had a preference for staying grounded while playing a match - unless I absolutely have to jump to avoid some specific moves. Another irritation to them is that when your opponent changes sides on the screen, it reverses your inputs depending on what counter-move you're trying to execute, which can screw with your timing unless you're used to this kind of stuff. And of course, these are easier to get away with online, but I sometimes see it happening offline as well and I let out a sigh whenever a player lands one.

Keep in mind, it's not just the cross-up punch that is being mentioned here. You can also mix in the jumpkick, and with its hitbox and block advantage, that can serve to make things worse.

For me, the risk/reward for cross-ups is retarded. Of course when I play as Sonya in MK9, I'm not as fazed by them as I normally am (hello 7-frame uppercut and EX Cartwheel <3), but when I'm without those tools, boy do I get agitated. This is definitely something you've gotta practice learning how to react against so that it doesn't become such a pain in your life.

And before anybody says, "Isn't d1 the usual go-to move for these things?" That's character-dependent and hitbox-dependent, but even so it's not something I personally want to risk. If it fails, you're eating a full combo, and no matter how much you practice it, there's always that little factor to worry about. The very thought of this makes me prefer to block and wait.

Now, your turn, members. How do you view the cross-up in general?
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
Before anything else, this thread is not designed to share counter-measures against cross-up tactics. If you want to learn what those measures are and/or want to add to the list, go to this thread created by xKhaoTikx.

http://www.testyourmight.com/threads/how-to-deal-with-opponents-who-cross-up.27877/

Also, no, this is not a thread designed to petition for silly patches to any fighting games regarding the cross-up tactic. If you came here just for that reason, I hate to disappoint you. We are simply giving feedback on what we think, no more, no less, so let's keep it like that.

That aside...what is your general outlook on cross-ups? It doesn't have to apply only to Mortal Kombat, it can concern any fighting game you play...with the likely exception of 3D fighters, since you generally sidestep in those and don't see a lot of crossing up going on.

Do you see this as a scrub-friendly tactic, or one that actually has some merit? Do you find them annoying to contend with, or are they hardly an issue for you? Does it add depth to a fighting game or take away from it for you? Whether you've played online or offline, don't hesitate to pour your thoughts out.

I'll start with mine.

I hate them with a passion. It might just be me, but I've always had a preference for staying grounded while playing a match - unless I absolutely have to jump to avoid some specific moves. Another irritation to them is that when your opponent changes sides on the screen, it reverses your inputs depending on what counter-move you're trying to execute, which can screw with your timing unless you're used to this kind of stuff. And of course, these are easier to get away with online, but I sometimes see it happening offline as well and I let out a sigh whenever a player lands one.

Keep in mind, it's not just the cross-up punch that is being mentioned here. You can also mix in the jumpkick, and with its hitbox and block advantage, that can serve to make things worse.

For me, the risk/reward for cross-ups is retarded. Of course when I play as Sonya in MK9, I'm not as fazed by them as I normally am (hello 7-frame uppercut and EX Cartwheel <3), but when I'm without those tools, boy do I get agitated. This is definitely something you've gotta practice learning how to react against so that it doesn't become such a pain in your life.

And before anybody says, "Isn't d1 the usual go-to move for these things?" That's character-dependent and hitbox-dependent, but even so it's not something I personally want to risk. If it fails, you're eating a full combo, and no matter how much you practice it, there's always that little factor to worry about. The very thought of this makes me prefer to block and wait.

Now, your turn, members. How do you view the cross-up in general?
you've been spoiled by sonya ;D

i hate scrubs who cross u up over and over again online and think they're good, its really hard for me to counter that in that kind of lag. Offline tho its much easier and chances are they won't get away with it. My gameplay style is too heavily based on visual ques to be able to do that kinda stuff online. i need to get better at making reads and having a rhythm in general for things.
 
The thing about this game is that there is random priority over hitboxes etc.

Time and time again we see people get hella punished for going for anti cross overs, in some cases anti airs. AA's are easier to deal with, but cross overs, it's luck of the draw.

Games like street fighter, if you know how to deal with cross ups, it's much easier to deal with pressure. In mk, the JP jails, leads to chip/mixups, or a jump kick is a slap in the face for most anti cross overs.

I can't stand the way the jumping system is in this game. This is about my only true gripe with the game..
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
They can be pretty nasty in games like SSF4 with characters like Adon where his ambiguous cross-ups are really dirty. As far as MK, they're not nearly as big of a problem since there's a block button that prevents you from having to guess.
 

DragonPick

I don't play Runescape
I love cross ups, except when they happen to me.

Honestly, I like the idea of cross ups, they're one of the reasons I started preferring back to block games. As a guy who loves mix up characters, another way to mix you up other than just HML is really cool imo. It makes you ahve to think fast and really recognize the macth up and what character moves look like.

Like when i first learned about cross ups, I was playing Third Strike. I learned that Ken's MK was an awesome cross up and it looked similar to HK, so it was confusing to me. Then I learned the difference between them and tried to study up on cross ups. I still get hit by them from time to time, but I've learned to deal (in TS AE is another story -_-)

I think cross ups are an amazing addition to any game and adds a new level of depth to a game. It's another way to teach you to learn more about a character while opening up new ways to fight.
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
i have no idea how crossups work on games like streetfighter or UMVC3. i really wanna get that game down tho...UMVC3
 

DragonPick

I don't play Runescape
i have no idea how crossups work on games like streetfighter or UMVC3. i really wanna get that game down tho...UMVC3
Basically, since you're holding back to block, if your opponent switches sides with you, you are no longer holding back, you are now walking towards them and are open to attack. If your opponent has a hit box that is large enough to hit you while they are moving behind you, they can make it so that you are no longer blocking and are walking forward and land a hit.
 
Without cross-ups, I don't think MK would be as fun, because that's just dumb not being able to jump over your opponent, despite my main's free-ness to them.

When I don't have a reliable anti-air move for crossups, I prefer to use an attack that lowers my hitbox, because I'm most afraid of the cross-up JIPs.
I do have those days when I can't AA against them, so I just go with the hitbox-lowering moves as my reaction to cross-ups; gotta know your options against cross-ups.

Cross-ups are cool, they add depth and strategy.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
The thing about this game is that there is random priority over hitboxes etc.

Time and time again we see people get hella punished for going for anti cross overs, in some cases anti airs. AA's are easier to deal with, but cross overs, it's luck of the draw.

Games like street fighter, if you know how to deal with cross ups, it's much easier to deal with pressure. In mk, the JP jails, leads to chip/mixups, or a jump kick is a slap in the face for most anti cross overs.

I can't stand the way the jumping system is in this game. This is about my only true gripe with the game..
this over 9000 times.

Mostly like.
"You know they will try to cross up"
"you cleary see them crossing over"
"You try to punish"
"They blown you up"
"Then they say you're free"

LOL
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
They can be pretty nasty in games like SSF4 with characters like Adon where his ambiguous cross-ups are really dirty. As far as MK, they're not nearly as big of a problem since there's a block button that prevents you from having to guess.
In MK9 crossups are f*cked up because the only a few characters have tools to deal with efficiency.

Other Characters are incredibly free, despites the tools they may have, even if you're very good a read stuff like crossovers, sometimes you get blown up because your character simply is holding you back, or doesn't has a fast normal, or his fastest move is pretty damn inconsistent.
 

Deyrax

Skarlet who ?
I despise crossups in MK. I despise MK9 at a whole. Probably because I'm a fan of 3D MK games, and back then jumping and crossups didn't even exist or were pretty much a suicide.
 

HGTV Soapboxfan

"Always a Pleasure"
As a sonya and jc main in mk I certainly do not mind them as much either, but I do like what they add to the game and any 2d fighter, especially near the corner. I don't have much experience with back to block crossups, but it seems really like any other ambiguous mixup, do I don't see them being a problem.
 
I think they're awesome, even though I am free to them. Though that's because I don't know how to deal with em, and understand them fully, so I blame any mishaps on myself. There's tons of FG players blocking them in other FGs, there's a very low chance that it's just "luck" that they're blocking them, it's a skill you have to slowly develop.

I think it builds you skills that are really integral to FGs, knowing your spacing to determine where the collision will land is a really good skill to acquire and develop.

So, everyone pre-order Injustice: Gods Among Us, it has cross ups. *shameless plug*.
 

G4S MinotaurLord

Wielder of Toxins
It really differs from game to game. I don't mind them at all in any of the games that I play though. That being said, MK doesn't have true cross-ups; it has crossover attacks. The fact that it doesn't change the way you have to block makes it fundamentally different. In most games getting crossovered/crossuped in general "locks you into blocking", so that's not an MK specific issue. Even though my main (Reptile) doesn't have a lot of outs to it, it's not a free invitation to cross me up all day. There's enough any character can do if you make the read or they abuse the tactic.

I think that crossups are a lot scarier in games like King of Fighters, but are an important part of the pressure. Iori's taco kick (jumping b3 or whatever) has been a staple since the origins of the game, the idea being that if you execute it as you're directly over their hitbox, it can be very hard to tell which way to block - in fact, many of the game's good aerial attacks function this way. It's just another form of good pressure/offensive tactics. In that game's particular system, blocking a jump in correctly still leads to a 50/50 where low pokes can hit confirm into full combo or they can go for another short hopped aerial. It doesn't make them bullshit, it just makes it part of the game. It's universal - all characters have access to them.

So how do I feel about them? It really differs from game to game, but I have yet to play a game where I don't think they belong. Online is online, but that's never how I've judged a fighting game before, and I won't start now.
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
Basically, since you're holding back to block, if your opponent switches sides with you, you are no longer holding back, you are now walking towards them and are open to attack. If your opponent has a hit box that is large enough to hit you while they are moving behind you, they can make it so that you are no longer blocking and are walking forward and land a hit.
ah, so what happens if u do something like press forward on the dpad and back on the joystick? :p
 
In MK9 crossups are f*cked up because the only a few characters have tools to deal with efficiency.

Other Characters are incredibly free, despites the tools they may have, even if you're very good a read stuff like crossovers, sometimes you get blown up because your character simply is holding you back, or doesn't has a fast normal, or his fastest move is pretty damn inconsistent.
This is exactly how I feel about cross-ups.
 

STB Sgt Reed

Online Warrior
Basically, since you're holding back to block, if your opponent switches sides with you, you are no longer holding back, you are now walking towards them and are open to attack. If your opponent has a hit box that is large enough to hit you while they are moving behind you, they can make it so that you are no longer blocking and are walking forward and land a hit.
You don't just switch your thumb from one direction to the other as they jump over?
 

DragonPick

I don't play Runescape
You don't just switch your thumb from one direction to the other as they jump over?
Yes, that's what you have to do. However the timing has to be correct and you have to read if it's an actual cross up attempt. If you read it wrong, you'll just be walking into a regular attack.


See how Ken's back foot and his forward foot look? When Ken tries to cross you up, he's trying kick you with the back kick while jumping over you, since that will force you to have to block the other way. However, if he is trying to fake you out and hit you with the front leg (or just messes up) and you think it's a cross up and switch directions, you'll walk right into the Masters kick
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
90% of the damage I take in MK9 is due to crossups.
I was literally told.... in a post somewhere.... I cant remember

That jumping wasn't the best tool in the game.

I wonder how long people are going to spout that nonsense?
This game is all about jumping. If you can stop it you will win. If not... you'll lose.

One pitfall is making both jump attacks advantage on block as well as jail.

My mentality is to read them... and if I react late... i usually try to jump at the last minute. I'd rather eat a maybe picked up air to air than a full combo.