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General/Other - Tarkatan XL Tarkatan Alien Discussion Thread

Tweedy

Noob
Just to add to this slightly, if they backdash the second gap, the overhead will catch them if you pressed it.
Hmmmmm, I wonder how that works? Is it kind of like Shinnok's hellsparks, where you have to guess how long they're going to delay it?

Edit: Seems to be the case.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Hmmmmm, I wonder how that works? Is it kind of like Shinnok's hellsparks, where you have to guess how long they're going to delay it?
Nah, overhead is the worst option, its always punishable on block even if you max delayed all 3 hits. So, this is more just the tool for the Alien player to use, if he makes the read that your opponent is going to backdash the last hit, the Alien player can't make this his go to ender.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
9f Armored Reversal / Wake-Up:

EX-Spin, walk forward, B11U4, RC 214~X-Strike = 28% (this is tight, but is very consistent, its all about connecting that B11U4 as early as possible without any of the hits whiffing - you'll find the timing, if not, NjP, Jip, RC 214~X-Strike is impossible to fuck up and does 1% less here and 2% less in combos)
EX-Spin, run under, B11U4, RC 214~Snag = 27% (good for swapping sides in the corner)

EX-Flip, RC, B11U4, RC, 214~X-Strike = 30% (17f Overhead Armour, but doesn't have a whiff window for pokes to beat it out like Spin does, probably worse for everything other than counter poking however)

Neutral Midscreen:

Ji4~EX-Flip, RC, 214~X-Strike = 29%
Rekka, 1, EX-Grab, walk forward, B11U4, RC 214~Snag = 28% (Obviously since it's the Rekka, you can get more by cancelling something into it, but it's also a great opener on it's own, this is what it does flat, and you can add a few more % depending on anything you opened it up with)



214~EX-Spin, walk forward, B11U4, RC 214~X-Strike = 36%
214~EX-Krawl, B11U4, RC, B11U4, RC, 214~Snag = 37% (reverses position, great if your back is to the corner, probably not worth it other wise)


Obviously these last 2 can be swapped with whatever opener you like so long as it doesn't launch.






Standing Rekka Resets (+15 into pressure):

214~EX-Spin, walk forward, B11U4, RC 214~F23434~Rekka, 1 = 39% - 2 Bars (This gives you 44% if you go for the guaranteed chip from F134~Flip, or guarantees you 43% from F134 cancelled into the first hit of Rekka, but obviously the guessing game starts instead of anything being guaranteed, however a full Rekka on block will bring your damage up to 46% and potentially open your opponent up)


B11U4, RC, B11U4, RC, 214~EX-Krawl, F23434~Rekka, 1 = 35% (40% with the guaranteed Chip, or you can go into F134~Rekka for 39% gauranteed damage factoring in any only the first hit of Rekka on block)


The first one can be substituted with any opener, the second one however must start with B11U4 but is our ONLY 1 bar high damage Standing Reset because B11U4 combo launches, this means B112 our go to punish whenever possible, luckily its a 9 frame high with decent range)






I'll post this in the combo thread in a minute, I'm going to need to do some dishes but after that I'll get stuck into his corner game, but it doesn't appear to add much at first glance. @MyronJ I like your one but my last one is slightly better again, although the execution is a touch tighter, just tagging you to share the knowledge
 
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Tweedy

Noob
EX spin loses armor after the high, so it can be blown up with low pokes. I've been using EX flip.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
EX spin loses armor after the high, so it can be blown up with low pokes. I've been using EX flip.
Didn't realise that thanks for the knowledge, I'll add in the optimal Tailflip combo as well for options

EX-Flip, RC, B11U4, RC, 214~X-Strike = 30%
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
EX spin loses armor after the high, so it can be blown up with low pokes. I've been using EX flip.
I just tested it tho its a really tiny window, it seems far more likely something will go wrong with the Tailwhip than the Spin IMO , but both are good options I guess. I mean I guess if you are constantly wake up Spinning an opponent who knows can try counter with poke, but I mean it's punishable if he had just blocked and he doesn't run the risk of you waking up with exTail, which is also full combo punishable on block, so I'm feeling like Spin is the most practical. Added the other one for options though as well
 

Tweedy

Noob
I just tested it tho its a really tiny window, it seems far more likely something will go wrong with the Tailwhip than the Spin IMO , but both are good options I guess. I mean I guess if you are constantly wake up Spinning an opponent who knows can try counter with poke, but I mean it's punishable if he had just blocked and he doesn't run the risk of you waking up with exTail, which is also full combo punishable on block, so I'm feeling like Spin is the most practical. Added the other one for options though as well
I see what you're saying but I played a lot online tonight and tons of people poked after the armor went away lol. So while you're right, it's definitely happening to me a lot.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
I see what you're saying but I played a lot online tonight and tons of people poked after the armor went away lol. So while you're right, it's definitely happening to me a lot.
Good to know, I was just labbing, but thats no match for actual gameplay experience, so if you are getting poked out of it commonly enough, thats definitely worth keeping in mind. EX-Rekka is worthy as well although it costs a second bar to combo at least its faster start up and not death on block if you ambiguous with your gaps
 
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B. Shazzy

NRS shill #42069
So I've been playing around with this character, and I feel like this variation is going to be very strong, and highly viable for people of a certain playstyle, and most likely the strongest variation this character has. He has some really nice shit that is going to really make him hard to deal with in the right hands.

Now we all know Alien has some pretty nice spacing tools and specials universally. So you might initially think that, oh ok, a variation that gives him a bunch more range strings and more armor? this just seems like a bunch of irrelevant overkill right? This was my initial reaction when I took him to the lab and saw what his variation unique tools actually were after 5 minutes, I thought this variation was going to be the "Warrior Predator" of the Xenomorph.


However, after peering a bit further into the depth of his shit, this is not the case at. His variation specific shit, has 2 AMAZING tools right off the bat, that are not only tools good enough to stand out in Alien's kit, but are quite possibly the best 2 buttons for their individual role.



- first up is his "Rekka", aka Tarkatan Rush, BF2 . It's not just a special that you cancel into - it is quite definitely THE best advancing move in the game at 15 frames or slower. The range on this is incredible. To put it in perspect, it outranges Quan Chi's B2 which is also 15 frames - except it has a very fast follow up hit that also reaches significantly further again in case you whiff the first hit. Quan Chi's is a mid, yes - but it also costs a bar to be safe AND to combo. Alien's may just be mid but when you are at the range that only one move can hit you anyway, being overhead isn't very relevant - and the trade offs he makes for this is that he gets to go into a guessing game on block, AND meterless. and on hit he can confirm (VERY easily, the timing on anything Rekka related is super flexible) and combo in to it for a bar. So there is no way to describe this button other than amazing. Oh, and as a bonus you can meterburn it for armor ;)

- second up is his 214 string. Basically, it's a 9 frame high that reaches as far as most characters D4 (further than some). It's easily hitconfirmable and gapless if left un-cancelled. On block, the first 3 hits do 2.2% chip, and the final hit goes low, and does and an additional 1.4% chip, but it won't come out if cancelled. It also has very little scaling, and it's a great combo tool. But basically, it's just one of the best high strings in the game. Easily compared to Scorps 214 which does the same amount of chip on the first 3 hits and also cancels into combo, it has the benefit of being much and I mean MUCH easier to apply with its range and its start up frames, and pokes that actually properly jail into it. Now, obviously Alien can't cancel into a FBC and loop it like Scorp can, however Alien has the benefit of being gapless, and having a pressure / guessing game of his own with it, being able to cancel it into the Rekka guessing game, letting it finish and hitting them with the 4th hit the low, which does 7% and gives a Hard Knockdown (although only 8 frames of advantage), or mixing your opponent up by hitting them with the Overhead special, Tail Flip. Now, the regular version of this is safe on block but when you cancel into it it does make a gap that isn't there if you go with any other option. The meterburned version of Tail Flip however is punishable on block so the gap is kinda irrelevant. And anyone trying to punish that gap is making a big read anyway because you are just as likely to get caught by the low, or even worse the Rekka, so this seems like a kind of deceptively nice mix-up.



- Now, as far as his Rekka pressure actually plays, it's interesting. Like Tanya's old Koba pressure, there will always be a gap/punish window (although a good Alien will be able to make it very ambiguous), and how he chooses to delay the buttons affects the frames of it, he can put the gap after the first hit and make the the entire string unpunishable, he can put it after the second and make the string unpunishable, or he can make it gapless, but the final hit will be punishable. A full Rekka on block builds about 40% of a bar of meter on block, and on hit it hitconfirms into a launcher, but for a bar of meter. So to cut it down to the elements, it's Kobu's old Rekka, in just about every way.
And while that's basically it, there is a couple of other elements. But don't get fooled by the Overhead / Low / Grap mixup at the end, "Oh it's Kobu's pressure with a 50/50 at the end!!!!" no, its not. The overhead option is 24 frames and has a very telling animation. And the Grab doesn't go through on block. So basically, it's "block low, react to slow ass overhead, cover all options" and in fact, the Overhead is so slow that you have to put a serious gap in the first two hits for it to be gapless, otherwise you can literally react to it with armor and go straight through. This "mix-up" is basically is no way comparable to what Kobu had with being able to meterburn her final hit to be safe/plus, basically they've looked at that which was the really fucked part about the Rekka, and toned it down a notch, and given this gimmicky little "mix-up" to compensate, which seems fair to me.
On top of that, a lot of what made Tanya so strong elsewise was her B12 string was just so damn good at re-applying the Rekka after being plus, Alien's best string to apply his Rekka is his F1 or F2 string which are 1/2 frames slower and has no armor breaking properties, Tanya also had that safe armor breaking Armor which began her Rekka which also made it super easy to apply, Alien can open his with armor as well, but he doesn't have that armor breaking property to his.

So basically, it's the Rekka but without all the bullshit that made the Rekka broken, it's the same guessing game, but it seems now that is a much more fair one, where you get rewarded for making the right read whether Alien has meter or not. I'm undoubtably sure that nerfs will be clamoured for at first but probably less on when people learn how much fairer it is, however NRS knew exactly what they were doing with this they didn't just accidently clone Tanya's Rekka, they've basically re-implemented it in a more sensible, fair manner, so this seems good.

What it means for the Tanya however, is grim days. People are talking about Acidic completely outclassing Noxious Reptile, I mean in no way are those two characters even similar outside of vaguely similar DoT's that have more in common aesthetically than they do in gameplay. Tanya however, could have had a niche if they had left her Tonfa Toss pressure intact, or let her keep armor on her Rekka just make it not break, however she was hit fucking hard, and this is no Hunter vs Grandmaster like some people hard, at this stage, I really can't see how Alien doesn't make her character ENTIRELY redundant. But meh, that's an issue for Tanya that I'll support in threads relevant to her, but I felt it was worth including.



As for how to play the character in general and how to use his universal tools, this character will very much be about using his sick spacing and footsies with amazing reach and great pokes, then trying to hold on to your turn once you get it. Alien's application of his Rekka will involve B3xxRekka at long range, raw Rekka at closer midscreen, F1/F2xxRekka as close range fastest mids that both have advancing properties too, and 214xxRekka which is jailed into by both D1 and D4. I think he will play VERY defensive in the neutral and will be one of this game's very defensive characters, constantly backing up and trying to whiff moves or react to them with your dope defensive tools like D4, U3, and Uppercut as well as his safe midscreen reaching 15f advance (the Rekka itself) which is a great defensive tool even without the armor. Another thing is his Ji4, you can safely input Ji4xxTailFlip(air), on block it option selects and the Tail Flip does NOT come out at all but on hit ex-AirTailFlip goes into combo, so this basically guarantees you big damage from far range if your Ji4 hits, and safety (and no wasted meter) if it doesn't, so this seems like pretty good counter zoning. This is tactic is universal for his variations but especially good for this variation because he converts so well from it with 214. Ji3xxRekka is another tactic worth mentioning from a bit closer like close midscreen around the range of your Rekka, while it doesn't option select, on has very nice range and goes into Rekka on hit which you can then choose to extend into further combo for a bar, and on block I'm not sure the exact size of the gap frame wise but it still beats anything other than pokes and armor and goes straight into Rekka, and thats not to mention the fact you can armor the Rekka as well.


I'm not sure what will be the most viable tactics in practice, but I'm working on this variation, and an indepth guide will be coming when we get there.



Now, this all reads very strong, and I've made comparison to moves like Scorp's 214 and Quans B2, but you have to remember that while his buttons are better, the payoff is nowhere near as good, and Scorp can get 35% meterless into standing reset pressure for landing his version of the 214, Alien has to spend a bar just to get similar damage and no standing reset (we'll see if we can get higher when people properly flesh out his combos, though at the moment it's not looking like it), and comparing the payoff to Quan, there is just no comparison. He's highly grounded by his damage output and reliance on meter. One thing I'm not ever is a downplayer, and I wasn't even going to keep playing if the new DLC characters were deliberately broken to move units, however this character seems quite fair during my initial analysis of him, however it's all going to rest on the numbers and if he is able to put out Scorpion levels of damage he will be pretty broken, BUT I really think that's going to be impossible unless we are all missing something drastic at the moment.

I'll post some combo's in a moment.


@STB Shujinkydink
@SaltShaker
@Tweedy
@God Confirm
@B. Shazzy
@Zoidberg747
i've only labbed leatherface. i'll get back to this when i get to alien or there's no magazines in the bathroom or something
 

STB Shujinkydink

Burning down in flames for kicks
I see a lot of talk about the risks of rekkas. This is just my opininon from the day of matches I've played.

Rekkas are only good/to be relied on ON HIT. If you hit confirm it you can stagger it to get RIDICULOUS corner carry while staying within a combo. You do NOT want to rely on this move on block. With the gaps/frame data its not a good strategy unless you're gonna go all the way to finish the low and still end at -11(somewhat safe but not really).

This character is a spacing character. You want to bait the opponent and hit them with a b3 into rekkas or a b2 into combo. Whiff punishing is huge in this variation. Also knowing what can be punished with 214 rekka into combo. 2 is your best punisher, super fast with lots of range and leads to max damage in this variation. So lets not spend time talking about how unsafe the rekka options are because relying on them on block is gimmick only/if they block your attempt at whiff punish or read.

Just my 2 cents
 

Pterodactyl

Jacqui main since Dead Alliance
If you're only relying on it on it then you're not really using it for its purpose, mixing people up. Which is why it has an OH and low option, the grab is for on hit.
 

Pterodactyl

Jacqui main since Dead Alliance
Idk about that. The mix ups do really poor damage and have huge gaps for armor or backdashes.
I'm not saying they don't have problems, I'm saying what their purpose is.

If you're only using it on hit then you're really only going to use the grab ender, which like I said kind of defeats the purpose of 2/3rds of the attack.

I'm not saying anyone is wrong.
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
I see a lot of talk about the risks of rekkas. This is just my opininon from the day of matches I've played.

Rekkas are only good/to be relied on ON HIT. If you hit confirm it you can stagger it to get RIDICULOUS corner carry while staying within a combo. You do NOT want to rely on this move on block. With the gaps/frame data its not a good strategy unless you're gonna go all the way to finish the low and still end at -11(somewhat safe but not really).

This character is a spacing character. You want to bait the opponent and hit them with a b3 into rekkas or a b2 into combo. Whiff punishing is huge in this variation. Also knowing what can be punished with 214 rekka into combo. 2 is your best punisher, super fast with lots of range and leads to max damage in this variation. So lets not spend time talking about how unsafe the rekka options are because relying on them on block is gimmick only/if they block your attempt at whiff punish or read.

Just my 2 cents
This doesn't make sense, hitconfirming into Rekka just loses you damage, it's great on block, you can make it really ambiguous and conceal the gap where you like, they have to make almost a blind read, its really hard to recognise which option your opponent did go for even if you blocked the whole string, and hard to recognise if the final hit is punishable or not meaning reversals aren't safe, and if they read wrong and Alien armors, he can go straight back at them. The rekka seems really good, it doesn't need to be Tanya tier to be a good tool, it's just a 50/50, but not a broken one.


If you're only relying on it on it then you're not really using it for its purpose, mixing people up. Which is why it has an OH and low option, the grab is for on hit.
I agree that putting it on hit isn't the way to go, but the overhead is 24 frames and has a massive tell and is one of the most reactable Overheads I've ever seen, there is no mix-up here, you block low you cover everything, the Overhead is some meta ass shit its your way to punish people on read of a backdash between the last two hits other than that its useless, its always full combo punishable on block no matter how you space the gaps, and fully reactable. The grab is the best ender whether you hit or not, the low seems like it's just there because, but I guess if you see your opponent stand blocking for whatever reason you can quickly pump this one into them
 

I GOT HANDS

Official Infrared Scorp wid gapless Wi-Fi pressure
Found some SIICK corner tech, I was wrong about his corner game, its pure amazing. Will update soon
 

Ponkz

Noob
Can I not see any combo starters with B11up4 please. its -14 and new players will get blown up using it.

A better starter although less damage is 12 High Low

But MKX is all about mids and tbh F134 with the right spacing is our go to pressure tool
 

Jolt

Uprise
Premium Supporter
Can I not see any combo starters with B11up4 please. its -14 and new players will get blown up using it.
That's probably true, but it still isn't a bad starter for a punish combo. I look at it in terms of "This is a punish combo that also starts pressure" as opposed to "This is what I should be trying to hit people with".

I'd say to compromise, someone just details the actual BNB open someone up starters and the pros/cons of each. Would you like to volunteer?
 

Ponkz

Noob
That's probably true, but it still isn't a bad starter for a punish combo. I look at it in terms of "This is a punish combo that also starts pressure" as opposed to "This is what I should be trying to hit people with".

I'd say to compromise, someone just details the actual BNB open someone up starters and the pros/cons of each. Would you like to volunteer?
Already have in the tarkatan combos thread lol.
 

Jolt

Uprise
Premium Supporter
Already have in the tarkatan combos thread lol.
Haha I can't be everywhere, man :D thanks though. Completely sincere and honest. I'm always thankful when I'm part of a community that actually shares things and learns together and so far the Tarkatan homies have been nothing but pleasant
 

Youphemism

Gunslinger since pre patch (sh/out to The Farmer)
Can I not see any combo starters with B11up4 please. its -14 and new players will get blown up using it.

A better starter although less damage is 12 High Low

But MKX is all about mids and tbh F134 with the right spacing is our go to pressure tool
It's pretty obvious you would hit confirm B11 into the U4 though, when you notate a combo obviously noone's talking about on block.
 

Ponkz

Noob
Another thing to note is our mid string F134 launches on 4 , so when using rekka just do rekka then 1 for the plus situation into more pressure.