What's new

General/Other - Liu Kang XL Liu Kang Discussion Thread

Dualist went up a tier, most likely not full tournament viable. But now he's more of a threat. Anybody that has no knowledge of dualist at this point will catch this mop.

FF is very good, however better than df is debatable as they're both still better at some mus.
FF is still the Zoner, df is still the all around, dualist is the corner rape
 
Last edited:

PapaRegadetho

All hail emperor Liucifer Kang!
The force kick is a high you can duck and minimum d2 for a punish. So the tool you mentioned, is powerful, but has a counter.

Wigy is frustrated because with db2 although you can low profile it to some degree you can't punish it without doing an njp and this options presents a get out of jail free card for many; with flying kick.

So how do enforce your offence on knockdown against Kang? Even smoke cant just yolo phase because most characters can jump back punch and punish.

I've found mixing in empty njp helps alot. You recover super fast and can chase flying kick well. There is also blocking, he is minus 3 which puts you at an advantage, if you flying kicks mb then you will need to make a read, i either cross-up after or backdash, my d1 (cyrax loses and d3 doesn't have the range). It sucks to lose your pressure in this way, but at least kang has spent resources to wake-up. The worst thing you can do us get frustrated and try to blow him up, he catches you and sends you full screen and builds his bar back with fireballs.

Also I believe Wigy mains no rai cho now. So you can imagine the pain of having to work hard in the neutral to get in or knock him down only for him to wake-up and get out comfortably moat the time. It hurts more then he can bully you so hard up close with d3 d1/dragons roar which is a mind game in itself.

Also talking about low profiling wake-ups kang can d3 check cyrax wake-up and low profile it and full punish with F1 when it whiffs. So if you wake-up your screwed, if you block the d3 your screwed (plus 1 lol) and if you delay he is just going to meaty you after d3 recovers.
I know it is, so is flying kick, but its slower and is -8 on block in DF , the normal one is -13. I'm aware of the situation, I know the MU quite well, but its not that bad as he makes it out to be, I played a couple of good JC that can handle the situation quite well, since everything around it still a guessing game in the corner for both characters. I realize that both DF and FF are bad MUs for Johhny, but he makes it sound like its an 8-2 or 7-3 bad.

Well apparently Cyrax and Bo are low tier, so it only makes sense they both struggle against Kang.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Wigy, I understand you're salty, what I don"t understand is how can someone be so salty at a point that they can't handle tools that aren't threating like most stuff in this game. What you really need to do is speak up against safe armors in general, including your -4 force kick.
Its high, its his only wakeup neutral duck and full punish. Johnny has no other wakeup armour and nothing that advances anyway.

Johnnys wakeups are one of the worst in the game atm? So im not sure why you're bringing his shadow kick up like its OP lol.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Just to clarify.

I dont think liu kang is top tier OP
I dont think jc liu is like 8-2 though post patch its 100% a loosing matchup now

I think liu kangs defence is now mindless and way too all purpose and safe. You have to make way more reads on knockdown on a character that has strong zoning, strong pressure and now strong poking footsies.

If someone can like explain and justify it or advise me im happy to hear it.

All i've heard so far is you're salty, get good and shadow kick is OP etc. If you have some advice im happy to hear it genuinely.
 
Last edited:

Parasurama

Dragon
The force kick is a high you can duck and minimum d2 for a punish. So the tool you mentioned, is powerful, but has a counter.

Wigy is frustrated because with db2 although you can low profile it to some degree you can't punish it without doing an njp and this options presents a get out of jail free card for many; with flying kick.

So how do enforce your offence on knockdown against Kang? Even smoke cant just yolo phase because most characters can jump back punch and punish.

I've found mixing in empty njp helps alot. You recover super fast and can chase flying kick well. There is also blocking, he is minus 3 which puts you at an advantage, if you flying kicks mb then you will need to make a read, i either cross-up after or backdash, my d1 (cyrax loses and d3 doesn't have the range). It sucks to lose your pressure in this way, but at least kang has spent resources to wake-up. The worst thing you can do us get frustrated and try to blow him up, he catches you and sends you full screen and builds his bar back with fireballs.

Also I believe Wigy mains no rai cho now. So you can imagine the pain of having to work hard in the neutral to get in or knock him down only for him to wake-up and get out comfortably moat the time. It hurts more then he can bully you so hard up close with d3 d1/dragons roar which is a mind game in itself.

Also talking about low profiling wake-ups kang can d3 check cyrax wake-up and low profile it and full punish with F1 when it whiffs. So if you wake-up your screwed, if you block the d3 your screwed (plus 1 lol) and if you delay he is just going to meaty you after d3 recovers.

This is a game.... there are good options and bad options. Kang's dragon roar is safe but weak to air attacks. The dragon kick is unsafe, in 2 variations and semi safe in DF.

So as part of a game, you can make a good read and get a full combo. But it is not your right to get a full combo. If you just wanna stay safe then just cross up for pressure.

If you feel your own character sucks then take it up in your threads.

Many of you said he isn't top 5 so just because you struggle to play the match up, you are trying to motivate nerfs because you feel that you can't deal with LK, instead of seeking ways to deal with a character. That is childish, I know that all of you guys aren't all like that but I am sure the LK community will help you if you asked for strategy tips to deal with Kang instead of coming here and demanding changes to a character who is good but not broken.
 
Last edited:

Wigy

There it is...
This is a game.... there are good options and bad options. Kang's dragon roar is safe but weak to air attacks. The dragon kick is unsafe, in 2 variations and semi safe in DF.

So as part of a game, you can make a good read and get a full combo. But it is not your right to get a full combo. If you just wanna stay safe then just cross up for pressure.

If you feel your own character sucks then take it up in your threads.

Many of you said he isn't top 5 so just because you struggle to play the match up, you are trying to motivate nerfs because you feel that you can't deal with LK, instead of seeking ways to deal with a character. That is childish, I know you all of you guys aren't all like that but I am sure the LK community will help you if you asked for strategy tips to deal with Kang instead of coming here and demanding changes to a character who is good but not broken.
Dragon kick ex is safe on block versus most of the cast and a nightmare punish for the cast who can. Dragon roar aint weak to jump attacks its weak to just NJP's.

Dragon kick covers dragon roars weaknesses and can be made 0 on block.

What characters have better wakeups?

I dont think there will be any more patches im more or less venting frustration.

There isnt much you can do in terms of leveling up.

Dragon kick is fullproof safe in the mathups i play.

Dragon roar is -3 and njp punishable (like a lot of wakeups) but is covered by the dragon kick.
 

Parasurama

Dragon
Dragon kick ex is safe on block versus most of the cast and a nightmare punish for the cast who can. Dragon roar aint weak to jump attacks its weak to just NJP's.

Dragon kick covers dragon roars weaknesses and can be made 0 on block.

What characters have better wakeups?

I dont think there will be any more patches im more or less venting frustration.

There isnt much you can do in terms of leveling up.

Dragon kick is fullproof safe in the mathups i play.

Dragon roar is -3 and njp punishable (like a lot of wakeups) but is covered by the dragon kick.
Making it definitely safe or 0 on block in DF costs meter, so that is 2 bars if it was armored.

Dragon roar is not just weak to njp. I have played with Kang for a while. It gets low profiled, jumped over, njp'ed.

In terms of better wake ups- Ermac, Possessed, Ethereal, Smoke, Jason, Raiden... every wake up has cons. So I won't go to Possessed forums and demand a nerf for him... I think it is healthier to learn to deal with it, especially if you say there are no more patches.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Making it definitely safe or 0 on block in DF costs meter, so that is 2 bars if it was armored.

Dragon roar is not just weak to njp. I have played with Kang for a while. It gets low profiled, jumped over, njp'ed.

In terms of better wake ups- Ermac, Possessed, Ethereal, Smoke, Jason, Raiden... every wake up has cons. So I won't go to Possessed forums and demand a nerf for him... I think it is healthier to learn to deal with it, especially if you say there are no more patches.
If you jump forward vs dragon roar u cant punish as you fly forward if you jump back it needs spaced correctly and timed correctly. Not ideal.

2 bars for a 0 on block double armoured unwhiff punishable wakeup is not bad. Especially considering his meterbuild is huge.

I would agree with all of them except smoke. Smokes is a straight read of will he wont he phase.

Displacer ethereal and mystic. The entire variations are all based on those moves.

Jason is just kind of dumb but he doesnt have an option to keep himself safe no matter what vs most of the cast.

Also jason isnt a zoner, you dont spend an entire game closing him down. Zoners are meant to have bad/dodgy wakeups especially ones that are good at rushdown.

As for leveling up and working round it. There isnt really a way. I can njp, if you dragon kick or backdash that means i wasted my oki. If i block, i cant punish dragon kick and you're -3 after dragon roar, and i cant go into a mid string check cause liu inexplicably got a 7f d1.

All the options versus liu on knockdown you give up your oki they do anything but dragon roar. This is a character thats exceptionally hard to close down for much of the cast, and is very good up close.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Not after nerfs. Just venting how braindead his wakeup options are especially considering the character as a whole.

Ex dragon roar should be armour breakable or -6 on block.
 

Parasurama

Dragon
If you jump forward vs dragon roar u cant punish as you fly forward if you jump back it needs spaced correctly and timed correctly. Not ideal.

2 bars for a 0 on block double armoured unwhiff punishable wakeup is not bad. Especially considering his meterbuild is huge.

I would agree with all of them except smoke. Smokes is a straight read of will he wont he phase.

Displacer ethereal and mystic. The entire variations are all based on those moves.

Jason is just kind of dumb but he doesnt have an option to keep himself safe no matter what vs most of the cast.

Also jason isnt a zoner, you dont spend an entire game closing him down. Zoners are meant to have bad/dodgy wakeups especially ones that are good at rushdown.

As for leveling up and working round it. There isnt really a way. I can njp, if you dragon kick or backdash that means i wasted my oki. If i block, i cant punish dragon kick and you're -3 after dragon roar, and i cant go into a mid string check cause liu inexplicably got a 7f d1.

All the options versus liu on knockdown you give up your oki they do anything but dragon roar. This is a character thats exceptionally hard to close down for much of the cast, and is very good up close.
Yes, I believe he is good everywhere or balanced. However, not exceptional. There is an option select where you could dash forward on a hard knock down and neutral jump, so the wake up is reversed. It is universal.

If you jump over and I use a dragon ex kick, then I lost a bar, if I dragon roar you might get a punish, if I block you get offense.


At the end of the day- if you struggle against LK, your characters would struggle in many more match ups besides him.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Yes, I believe he is good everywhere or balanced. However, not exceptional. There is an option select where you could dash forward on a hard knock down and neutral jump, so the wake up is reversed. It is universal.

If you jump over and I use a dragon ex kick, then I lost a bar, if I dragon roar you might get a punish, if I block you get offense.


At the end of the day- if you struggle against LK, your characters would struggle in many more match ups besides him.
Aside from possessed none of the characters you mentioned give me such an issue getting in and then can just get up for free.

We can agree to disagree. I think liu kang is completely mindless on knockdown.
 
Last edited:

Parasurama

Dragon
Not after nerfs. Just venting how braindead his wakeup options are especially considering the character as a whole.

Ex dragon roar should be armour breakable or -6 on block.
The fact that the Kang player has to choose between 2 wake ups instead of just using the same wake up makes it not brain dead.

LK understands how difficult it is to get used to not breaking armor but we have to get used to it too.
 

Wigy

There it is...
The fact that the Kang player has to choose between 2 wake ups instead of just using the same wake up makes it not brain dead.

LK understands how difficult it is to get used to not breaking armor but we have to get used to it too.
He doesnt though. Its just if he can get away with dragon roar then hes -3 and can either bait a poke and pressure or d1 through the mid pressure.

Dragon kick is 100% fullproof unless you have a 9frame move with decent range and great execution, if they start punishing it mb it with your ennnndless meter.

Your opponent can njp:

Backdash
Bicycle kick
D2 -depending on knockdown
Dragon kick
Fireball

All blow it up.

You have way more options to get out of oki than your opponent has to press their oki.

I cant stress this enough, liu kang is really hard to get in on for a number of characters, and then when you do hes one of the best pressure characters in the game. Why is his wakeup game this good. I've heard legitimately no justifcation aside from pseudo solutions that work on a hard reads with the probability against you.

Prepatch it was fair.

Armour break the dragon roar
Dragon kick blows up armour break.

Now its:

Njp and pray they get greedy and went for dragon roar and not dragon kick, backdash or bicycle kick.
 
Last edited:

Wigy

There it is...
You have issues getting in vs Possessed?

Do you get zoned by War God Kotal too? lol
I mean i do play bo rai cho.

It was out of the characters he mentioned.

Kenshi is a good comparison as hes probably the most braindead on knockdown in the entire game and can control space well in some matchups.

Its cute you trying to blow me up though.

:DOGE
 
Last edited:

Tweedy

Noob
I mean i do play bo rai cho.

It was out of the characters he mentioned.

Kenshi is a good comparison as hes probably the most braindead on knockdown in the entire game and can control space well in some matchups.

Its cute you trying to blow me up though.

:DOGE
I mean Possessed doesn't zone at all. If you're getting zoned by Possessed, perhaps you haven't discovered the run mechanic.
 

Wigy

There it is...
I mean Possessed doesn't zone at all. If you're getting zoned by Possessed, perhaps you haven't discovered the run mechanic.
You say that like his only special is bf3

Guna say again.

some matchups.

Zoning is controlling space to keep the opponent out.

You know like teleport njp on read of an air move.. Or bf2 to blow up a run in or df4 ex (i feel you're familiar with that one) to instant control about 2/3 of the screen with a + on block overhead with pushback, or his low minion thing...

And while you're waiting for any of this he can run in and go into pressure/grab.

I feel you're definition of controlling space well is exclusive to characters who spam iafb's.

You play him in the most optimally braindead fashion relying entirely on df4 ex and 421 teleport low/oh shit.

Least the games i saw you play that was 200% of your game

This is off topic and like most of this forum i dont care about your opinion. so imma just ignore you now :)
 
Last edited:

Parasurama

Dragon
You say that like his only special is bf3

Guna say again.

some matchups.

Zoning is controlling space to keep the opponent out.

You know like teleport njp on read of an air move.. Or bf2 to blow up a run in or df4 ex (i feel you're familiar with that one) to instant control about 2/3 of the screen with a + on block overhead with pushback, or his low minion thing...

And while you're waiting for any of this he can run in and go into pressure/grab.

I feel you're definition of controlling space well is exclusive to characters who spam iafb's.

You play him in the most optimally braindead fashion relying entirely on df4 ex and 421 teleport low/oh shit.

Least the games i saw you play that was 200% of your game

This is off topic and like most of this forum i dont care about your opinion. so imma just ignore you now :)

I really think that you should look at ways to deal with characters instead of informing us of your frustration.

I play with LK because I like him. And I play with some other characters because I enjoy how they play. Negativity is not the Shaolin way.

Again, if you have issues with LK - you are probably losing many other match ups.
 

Tweedy

Noob
If you think Possessed zones you're not playing this game at a competitive level lol.

Lower level players could probably be zoned by Sonya or Cassie. That doesn't make them zoners.

A big problem with TYM is that people form opinions based off of lower level play and spread it as fact.

Wigy is so deluded that he questions my proper play. Not using EX DF4 a lot and trying to zone when they can just run forward and full combo me would definitely give me all the TYM street cred i'm sure.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
If you think Possessed zones you're not playing this game at a competitive level lol.

Lower level players could probably be zoned by Sonya or Cassie. That doesn't make them zoners.

A big problem with TYM is that people form opinions based off of lower level play and spread it as fact.

Wigy is so deluded that he questions my proper play. Not using EX DF4 a lot and trying to zone when they can just run forward and full combo me would definitely give me all the TYM street cred i'm sure.
I feel like you don't know the difference between zoning and keepaway. You must be so high level you have ascended beyond the boundaries of mere FGC terms.

Kenshi has no keepaway, but he controls the space in front of him very well. This is a form of zoning. When you walk back and whiff punish with b1 or use Bf2 to check your opponent you are zoning keeping their moves out of your hurtbox but keeping yours in.

This is MKX though, so with safe footsie tools and teleports, any form or keep away or long distance zoning is almost unheard of.
 

Wigy

There it is...
I get what you're saying but nobody has presented a solution past njp which is a terrible solution.

This isnt a leveling up thing, i know what to do and do it and sometimes when they get greedy it works but i should not have to throw my oki out the window and make a hard read that only pays off if they get greedy after ive just eaten like 8-10% chip.
 

ismael4790

Stay focused or get Caged
He doesnt though. Its just if he can get away with dragon roar then hes -3 and can either bait a poke and pressure or d1 through the mid pressure.

Dragon kick is 100% fullproof unless you have a 9frame move with decent range and great execution, if they start punishing it mb it with your ennnndless meter.

Your opponent can njp:

Backdash
Bicycle kick
D2 -depending on knockdown
Dragon kick
Fireball

All blow it up.

You have way more options to get out of oki than your opponent has to press their oki.

I cant stress this enough, liu kang is really hard to get in on for a number of characters, and then when you do hes one of the best pressure characters in the game. Why is his wakeup game this good. I've heard legitimately no justifcation aside from pseudo solutions that work on a hard reads with the probability against you.

Prepatch it was fair.

Armour break the dragon roar
Dragon kick blows up armour break.

Now its:

Njp and pray they get greedy and went for dragon roar and not dragon kick, backdash or bicycle kick.
I agree with dragon roar being too good considering the rest of the tools Liu has. Maybe it should only have 1 hit of armor, or be more negative.

About flying kick, in dualist and FF it is full combo punishable, very comfortable with a 9f starter with decent hitbox (Kenshi's standing 2 does the job well).
The problem comes from DF which has it safeish on block, -8 (and 0 or +1 with meterburns). The only way I know to punish this is with a jedi reaction with d1 into combo, like this:


However, at less than 3/4 screen, it is unlikely to do this on reaction.

Depending on when you hit the d1, liu gets sent at different distance. Rising karma covers all, but other characters might have to do a small run to continue the combo. Anyway, it's a pretty tough punish requirement considering what the move can lead to and how safe it is on block.
 
Last edited:

shura30

Shura
As for leveling up and working round it. There isnt really a way. I can njp, if you dragon kick or backdash that means i wasted my oki. If i block, i cant punish dragon kick and you're -3 after dragon roar, and i cant go into a mid string check cause liu inexplicably got a 7f d1.
well, you are cancer and the reason people won't come over here

I've played a few kangs lately and d1xxroar, d1xxroar, loop has been something I had to expect at some point

clearly the patching done is gold compared to the day1 bs but there's still frames to be adjusted
ofc one side of the playerbase is more on a 'don't touch my character regardless' basis atm so we're not getting constructive criticism here
 

Wigy

There it is...
well, you are cancer and the reason people won't come over here

I've played a few kangs lately and d1xxroar, d1xxroar, loop has been something I had to expect at some point

clearly the patching done is gold compared to the day1 bs but there's still frames to be adjusted
ofc one side of the playerbase is more on a 'don't touch my character regardless' basis atm so we're not getting constructive criticism here
Lol what?