What's new

General/Other - Konjurer XL Konjurer (Praetorian) Alien Discussion Thread

imblackjames

Ive seen the leprechaun
im really trying to up my konjurer game. i really want to get good with this variation but it seems like it'll be hard to get over the hump and be super good with him
 

FROST_

KH | DsV BLOODxGOD
There is a gap on block, its guarenteed on hit. If you do get it the drone still comes out.
So if I understand correctly... On hit D4, DB4 (drone jails) for a low overhead mixup and on block their is a gap. Great find I been trying to incorporate d4 but with B3 because a half screen low I haven't been using it especially since it's -17. Especially because B3, tail flip/ tail grab are easy to convert off of even B3 crawl. B3 is just a modified d4 imo but since d4, drone jails I'll be using that.
 
Use d1 to low profile his 1, f1, duck under 3 in f43 and if he does 1112 or. 114 mash armor after second and third hit, the game will allow you to do your move if theres a gap but you need to practice it a bit in training mode. If he does f131 punish him. If he does d3 its your turn to press buttons. Also, if you block up rockets you only have to block one, you can move afterwards.
 

N-Zalo

Noob
Hey guys, here's the vid I made of that glitch.

I'm not sure that's a glitch, maybe the facehugger is hitting at the same time as you do, that triggers an auto-block state to avoid unblockables (hiting oh and low at the same time).
Anyway, a correction about that should be made, perhaps labeling oh and low attacks so autoblock won't be triggered by mid attacks.
 

dennycascade

UPR_ghastem
A couple of setups I came up with today:

Setup 1
The b2 into f134 ovomorph is just your generic trap setup to get the egg on the field (in this case it has to be close). Basically the idea of this is doing b3 into EX krawl followed by f134 krawl, pushing them into the egg and restanding them with it. Now instead of converting off the facehugger as usual and getting the full damage, you allow the opponent to crumple while pushing them towards the corner. When they crumple from the facehugger, it actually results in an extremely advantageous hard knockdown, allowing you to safely get out another ovomorph as soon as they fall backwards and still have time to do whatever you want before they get up. So in this case I dash a few times for corner carry, jump over their body just before they fall on their back and summon the ovomorph. Then, I corpse hop with df3, making it tricky for them to input their wakeup and leaving me in perfect range for a safe 50/50 which will link into the facehugger for full combo.

Setup 2

This one has the same generic starter as the first setup, with the ovomorph set in front of yourself. Afterwards go for f4 (or whatever) into EX krawl, and then f23434 into regular krawl, keeping the opponent standing the entire time and leaving them right within the trigger radius of the egg you set up earlier, forcing them to block. The second clip shows the dummy set to reversal mode right after the krawl, and it shows the blocked facehugger jailing into f2, meaning the setup leaves you significantly plus enough to go for a 50/50 or whatever you want afterwards.

These setups may not be totally optimized yet but I hope it gives you guys some ideas! Keep digging!
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Hey guys, here's the vid I made of that glitch.

@16 Bit check out 0:28. This exact thing happened to me today. I landed the low first into OH with the hugger hatching but somehow Lao blocked the second/third hits. I thought when it prevents two moves too close in frames it knocks down on hit like Jacqui FA gimmicks? This straight up gives them a block after they're hit.

I dunno why this happens but figured I'd tag you in case you can get it adjusted somehow.
 

16 Bit

Mash d+1~Cat Claws
NetherRealm Studios
@16 Bit check out 0:28. This exact thing happened to me today. I landed the low first into OH with the hugger hatching but somehow Lao blocked the second/third hits. I thought when it prevents two moves too close in frames it knocks down on hit like Jacqui FA gimmicks? This straight up gives them a block after they're hit.

I dunno why this happens but figured I'd tag you in case you can get it adjusted somehow.

See my reply here.
http://testyourmight.com/threads/solved-glitch-with-facehugger-vs-tail-flip.59060/


At the end of the video Sub-Zero isn't punishing the Tail Flip on block. The last thing he blocked was the Face Hugger, which has very low block stun. So Alien is recovering from the Tail Flip and Sub-Zero can EX Slide quickly.
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
See my reply here.
http://testyourmight.com/threads/solved-glitch-with-facehugger-vs-tail-flip.59060/


At the end of the video Sub-Zero isn't punishing the Tail Flip on block. The last thing he blocked was the Face Hugger, which has very low block stun. So Alien is recovering from the Tail Flip and Sub-Zero can EX Slide quickly.
Ah ok I didn't realize that's how it worked. Damn. I get it though, gotta time it a little different to make sure it doesn't happen. Thanks for the detailed explanation!
 

ArmedCalf

I guess I play Necromancer now.. PSN: ArmedCalf
@ando1184 Yo did you explore that glitch at all/ what do you think of it's viability? I stumbled across this in training and I came here to see what was up. I thought it was sick
 

ando1184

Noob
See my reply here.
http://testyourmight.com/threads/solved-glitch-with-facehugger-vs-tail-flip.59060/


At the end of the video Sub-Zero isn't punishing the Tail Flip on block. The last thing he blocked was the Face Hugger, which has very low block stun. So Alien is recovering from the Tail Flip and Sub-Zero can EX Slide quickly.
So in other words tail flip is acting as if it whiffed altogether and you're stuck in recovery frames?

Edit: isn't there a way to fix this though so that the tail flip will just knockdown and the Face Hugger whiff? I would prefer that over eating a full combo because I tried something that worked?!?
 
Last edited:
So if I understand correctly... On hit D4, DB4 (drone jails) for a low overhead mixup and on block their is a gap. Great find I been trying to incorporate d4 but with B3 because a half screen low I haven't been using it especially since it's -17. Especially because B3, tail flip/ tail grab are easy to convert off of even B3 crawl. B3 is just a modified d4 imo but since d4, drone jails I'll be using that.
B3 covers 3/4 of the screen while D4 covers close mid range 2 different tools.
 

Alien Substance

Evanesce
Lead Moderator
News Editor
So in other words tail flip is acting as if it whiffed altogether and you're stuck in recovery frames?
On hit: The normal Tail Flip is programmed to not allow the opponent to be comboed during the hitstun. The Ovomorph hits during the hitstun, and because of the "cannot combo during Tail Flip hitstun" programming, the opponent is able to block it. The Xenomorph is unaffected by what happens, so he/she/it continues in the natural recovery frames of the Tail Flip.

On block: The Tail Flip is not acting like it whiffed; the Ovomorph is overriding the blockstun of the Tail Flip. Whatever attack hits/is blocked last is the hit/blockstun that the opponent has to deal with. The hit/blockstun of attacks do not stack on top of each other. That's how the game was made.

Edit: isn't there a way to fix this though so that the tail flip will just knockdown and the Face Hugger whiff? I would prefer that over eating a full combo because I tried something that worked?!?
That might involve making the Ovomorph not connect while the opponent is in hitstun, which I believe would be an overall nerf to Konjurer. Well, they could also alter the normal Tail Flip to allow the opponent to be comboed afterwards, but I don't think Mr. Garcia would wanna do that. The Tail Flip might have that programming so that the Xenomorph doesn't get a free combo from Tail Flip after trading against an opponent's attack or something.

For now, that particular Ovomorph set-up should probably be strayed away from, or adjusted to accomodate for the game design. :/
 

ando1184

Noob
On hit: The normal Tail Flip is programmed to not allow the opponent to be comboed during the hitstun. The Ovomorph hits during the hitstun, and because of the "cannot combo during Tail Flip hitstun" programming, the opponent is able to block it. The Xenomorph is unaffected by what happens, so he/she/it continues in the natural recovery frames of the Tail Flip.

On block: The Tail Flip is not acting like it whiffed; the Ovomorph is overriding the blockstun of the Tail Flip. Whatever attack hits/is blocked last is the hit/blockstun that the opponent has to deal with. The hit/blockstun of attacks do not stack on top of each other. That's how the game was made.


That might involve making the Ovomorph not connect while the opponent is in hitstun, which I believe would be an overall nerf to Konjurer. Well, they could also alter the normal Tail Flip to allow the opponent to be comboed afterwards, but I don't think Mr. Garcia would wanna do that. The Tail Flip might have that programming so that the Xenomorph doesn't get a free combo from Tail Flip after trading against an opponent's attack or something.

For now, that particular Ovomorph set-up should probably be strayed away from, or adjusted to accomodate for the game design. :/
I know that the frames aren't supposed to overlap or stack or whatever, but you gotta look at the frames of each move and what's happening in this scenario: the Face Hugger is N/A but if you do it by itself you clearly can block,run, etc....as alien just fine no problem, so it looks more like its neutral or maybe even supposed to be plus on block. Then you have tail flip which is only -8 on block, so in theory according to the numbers and how frame data works, shouldn't I be able to block a 9f slide? I believe tail flip is 17f or more of recovery, I tested against reversal moves that were around 15-15f and those punished as well. This is what led me to believe that the face hugger is making the tail flip act as if it was in a "whiff" state and only considers its recovery frames......regardless of the reason at hand, I firmly believe it should be removed or tweaked because this is very buggy looking. Overall, this really hurts the variation because let's face it, people end strings with tail flip and in the process the egg happens to be out and the string pushes them into the zone as we come to an end to make the string semi safe, we eat a full combo because this unintended scenario happens. If the opponent knows about this they can literally block all of our pressure but when they see themselves in the blue ring take the tail flip hit and hold block to get a free combo out of us. Now does that look like konjurer is purposely "designed" that way? Not trying to be a dick but it annoys me that I'm getting responses back but instead of hearing something along the lines of "they're working on it" or something along the lines of its unintended for them to block while being comboed at all, we get "just refrain from doing the setup" and "I explained this in another thread" which btw doesn't explain anything because I listed above what happens after you block a face hugger to begin with. I just want a game that feels complete and not buggy, but since kp2 we have been seeing tons of bugs and glitches and I'm sorry but I throw this in the mix as well. We need to stick together on stuff like this as a community and get our game fixed.
 

ArmedCalf

I guess I play Necromancer now.. PSN: ArmedCalf
@KanoBaII props dude, that tech is filthy af. I was just messing around with it to see if it was a gimmick, but that shit is serious.