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General/Other - Cyber Sub-Zero XL Cyber Sub-Zero Discussion Thread

scarsunseen

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I don't think it was because it was meaty, i think it was because Sub was getting up off the ground and was in a crouching animation. Iirc b1xice ball connects only on non-blocking crouching opponents, could be wrong though (haven't played in a while). Is it possible to test it again but have Sub crouch block on wake up?
I set AI to crouch block on wake up and the same thing happens: I can B1-iceball.
 

scarsunseen

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Wow that's sick i guess it can be meatied i need to get on that :eek:
With AI on crouch block, B1-iceball will connect if you're close to them but not if you hit the B1 from a little far away. Someone more familiar with CSZ should test this.

With the AI set to normal stand, meaty B1-iceball will connect. Of course it's punishable though lol
 

Tweedy

Noob
Having a lot of fun with Cyber Sub.

The lack of a mid that you don't have to risk your life to use is somewhat obnoxious, though. One of Smoke's F4 strings would be sick on him.
 

just_2swift

God Fist Lao
Having a lot of fun with Cyber Sub.

The lack of a mid that you don't have to risk your life to use is somewhat obnoxious, though. One of Smoke's F4 strings would be sick on him.
Would be sick on rax too. Sektor has b2 so he's good. Just give them f4 d1. Would not break them at all.
 

Tweedy

Noob
Would be sick on rax too. Sektor has b2 so he's good. Just give them f4 d1. Would not break them at all.
I'd even be fine with the F2 that the other borgs have. I know it gets low profiled, but at least it's something to work with, you can mix F4 in. CSZ just has F4 lmao.
 

just_2swift

God Fist Lao
I'd even be fine with the F2 that the other borgs have. I know it gets low profiled, but at least it's something to work with, you can mix F4 in. CSZ just has F4 lmao.
Wonder how many spots rax and csz would jump on the tier list. I like f2 ice hand it's dope f4 d1 would be really nice to have.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
I'd even be fine with the F2 that the other borgs have. I know it gets low profiled, but at least it's something to work with, you can mix F4 in. CSZ just has F4 lmao.
Honestly feel like cyber has the worst pressure. instant NJP is super powerful but with high risk. Cyrax has a solid njp with good range especially in the air, its slower but still his best mid. Cyber has good mobility but also has risk and his damage is low without drones and set-ups aren't as strong. Cyrax has less mobility mostly safe, but high damage and big set-ups. Cyrax having F2 even though its not the best string just makes his pressure stronger.

Have to play them to their strengths to overcome the weakness.
 

scarsunseen

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Honestly feel like cyber has the worst pressure. instant NJP is super powerful but with high risk. Cyrax has a solid njp with good range especially in the air, its slower but still his best mid. Cyber has good mobility but also has risk and his damage is low without drones and set-ups aren't as strong. Cyrax has less mobility mostly safe, but high damage and big set-ups. Cyrax having F2 even though its not the best string just makes his pressure stronger.

Have to play them to their strengths to overcome the weakness.
At least with Cyrax, you can end every blocked string with a saw to make yourself safe. That's probably one of my favorite things about him.
 
Looked and tested more of the corner B2 x mid bomb setups. I think this is my new go to especially mixed with all of the other regular options from a HKD/SPLAT close bomb setups.

The b2 mid bomb setup seems to just be safer and its not so tough of a read you have to make on the opponent because you can choose to bait or challenge at a spacing that allows u time to react if ur not just rushing in.

 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
Looked and tested more of the corner B2 x mid bomb setups. I think this is my new go to especially mixed with all of the other regular options from a HKD/SPLAT close bomb setups.

The b2 mid bomb setup seems to just be safer and its not so tough of a read you have to make on the opponent because you can choose to bait or challenge at a spacing that allows u time to react if ur not just rushing in.

I love the video, it looks cool but it isn't good and there are better options for CSZ players to practice and implement into their game play. Once you create that space for you opponent you open up their options, some characters won't have to eat you dive kicks others can slide out if you jump. This means as a CSZ player you are having to make a good read to get results. A solid set-up limits your opponents options. Here they either armor, block or delayed wake-up and you can tech in an ex bomb to help with that and a delayed wake-up from the opponent can lead to a very hard block.

I just made a quick video showing a far easier set-up that can be looped with 1 drone i think its around 25% per loop and you can just cash out for full damage at any point (35-39%).


The step back at the end makes non ex bomb hit them to keep you safe* (not mentioned in the video)
 
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I love the video, it looks cool but it isn't good and there are better options for CSZ players to practice and implement into their game play. Once you create that space for you opponent you open up their options, some characters won't have to eat you dive kicks others can slide out if you jump. This means as a CSZ player you are having to make a good read to get results. A solid set-up limits your opponents options. Here they either armor, block or delayed wake-up and you can tech in an ex bomb to help with that and a delayed wake-up from the opponent can lead to a very hard block.

I just made a quick video showing a far easier set-up that can be looped with 1 drone i think its around 25% per loop and you can just cash out for full damage at any point (35-39%).


The step back at the end makes non ex bomb hit them to keep you safe* (not mentioned in the video)
This is good stuff. Ill put what you have to use.

And i understand where your coming from, but seeing as how csz still doesn't have anything guranteed, i think just having the options to throw at them is good, plus starting out with the space imo means less of a read I have to make since the bomb is out and you can react from there. If you bait slides, rolls, etc its a full punish. At some point they will always get out off a bad read, armor, timing, or something. But depending on the MU you can really capitalize on some stuff
 
Also the only slide that can punish would be reptiles i believe. I have done the b2 mid bomb setup against subzeros slide unpunished, same with millena roll. Bait and punish. I don't think the setup is bad. Even understanding what your goal is in a corner setup.
 

navaroNe

Nobody's afraid of Bruce Wayne
I dunno if it's relevant at all yet but the other day I was messing with CSZ and noticed if you do his B2 mid combo after a NJP then it will lead to a HKD similar to that of F2, just dunno if it's anymore plus on hit then F2 is but I do know it's height dependent like F2 and it can lead to a safe bomb setup like F2 does but don't know if there's any advantage to it over F2 as you would have to sacrifice some damage in your corner combo in order to land the B2 at proper height but maybe someone else can figure something out with it that I wasn't able to.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
I dunno if it's relevant at all yet but the other day I was messing with CSZ and noticed if you do his B2 mid combo after a NJP then it will lead to a HKD similar to that of F2, just dunno if it's anymore plus on hit then F2 is but I do know it's height dependent like F2 and it can lead to a safe bomb setup like F2 does but don't know if there's any advantage to it over F2 as you would have to sacrifice some damage in your corner combo in order to land the B2 at proper height but maybe someone else can figure something out with it that I wasn't able to.
Yeah I've checked this as well. I think in the end it just wasn't as much hit advantage.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
This is good stuff. Ill put what you have to use.

And i understand where your coming from, but seeing as how csz still doesn't have anything guranteed, i think just having the options to throw at them is good, plus starting out with the space imo means less of a read I have to make since the bomb is out and you can react from there. If you bait slides, rolls, etc its a full punish. At some point they will always get out off a bad read, armor, timing, or something. But depending on the MU you can really capitalize on some stuff
Don't make things more complicated than they need to be. This set-up you either bait a wake-up and then throw on the wake-up frames for launch, go straight for the F43 if you think they want to disrespect and if they have a habit of delayed wake-up do B3d4.

The set-up you show in your video is cool and many Cybers use it and win with it but as you can see from my video its just not necessary and makes your life harder.

F2 has been a trap for CSZ and a weak tool for the resets outside of very specific combos and heights.
 
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Don't make things more complicated than they need to be. This set-up you either bait a wake-up and then throw on the wake-up frames for launch, go straight for the F43 if you think they want to disrespect and if they have a habit of delayed wake-up do B3d4.

The set-up you show in your video is cool and many Cybers use it and win with it but as you can see from my video its just not necessary and makes your life harder.

F2 has been a trap for CSZ and a weak tool for the resets outside of very specific combos and heights.
I started doing your setup, the timing on the njp is something you definitely have to practice alot to get consistently but it works solid without a doubt. I still think that the b2 mid bomb setup is good to throw in even in conjunction with doing the njp close bomb. I did it online against some good ppl i had 0% win odds against and did th njp close bomb then b2 mid bomb and it makes them think and try to react because they now have 2 bombs under them almost simultaneously so if they jump u can aa or air to air challenge. If they armor u can still be safe due to distance. If they slide out or run its just a corner switch but they get no damage on u so ur basically set at neutral again, which of course isnt csz gameolan but u still get to play ur game.
 

Zionix

AKA Ponkster
I started doing your setup, the timing on the njp is something you definitely have to practice alot to get consistently but it works solid without a doubt. I still think that the b2 mid bomb setup is good to throw in even in conjunction with doing the njp close bomb. I did it online against some good ppl i had 0% win odds against and did th njp close bomb then b2 mid bomb and it makes them think and try to react because they now have 2 bombs under them almost simultaneously so if they jump u can aa or air to air challenge. If they armor u can still be safe due to distance. If they slide out or run its just a corner switch but they get no damage on u so ur basically set at neutral again, which of course isnt csz gameolan but u still get to play ur game.
Absolutely no doubt that having multiple set-ups is good and this set-up has more hit adv so doing close bomb, b2 mid bomb should be super good; even raw b2 mid bomb as you will be able to act sooner with the NJP set-up
 

scarsunseen

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oh how i love resets


the 2nd enhanced bomb does 15% damage

bomb stacking damage comparison

My PS4 keeps dying, but the best setup is: NJP hard knockdown, B2-cancel ex-mid bomb, JiK-close bomb.

If they try jumping out, they get kicked in the air and land on the ex-bomb. If they delay wake-up, they're holding down to block ex-bomb and the JiK hits them (overhead). If they try NJP to beat the JiK, they will land on the ex-bomb. This will beat ALL non-armored wake-ups because they are sitting on the ex-bomb puddle.

I want to test this more but my damn PS4 keeps powering off.
 
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oh how i love resets


the 2nd enhanced bomb does 15% damage

bomb stacking damage comparison

My PS4 keeps dying, but the best setup is: NJP hard knockdown, B2-cancel ex-mid bomb, JiK-close bomb.

If they try jumping out, they get kicked in the air and land on the ex-bomb. If they delay wake-up, they're holding down to block ex-bomb and the JiK hits them (overhead). If they try NJP to beat the JiK, they will land on the ex-bomb. This will beat ALL non-armored wake-ups because they are sitting on the ex-bomb puddle.

I want to test this more but my damn PS4 keeps powering off.
Im loving that your expanding on the b2 midbomb setups! I knew you would find some stuff i had been commenting on your videos to play csz and find some tech waaay back when. Lol
 

scarsunseen

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I put that in slow motion, and it literally looks like the OH-divekick and low-bomb hit at precisely the exact frame.