General/Other - Cyber Sub-Zero XL Cyber Sub-Zero Discussion Thread

[Harlequin969]

So I was poking around the Cyrax thread and they came up with double bomb setups that destroy armor and tech rolls. We would be able to do the same thing theoretically as long as we don't freeze the opponent in a combo. Anyone been experimenting with this?

I messed around with this in practice and I don't think it's possible. Mainly because there's no real juggle ability with CSZ that gives enough time for two bombs. Especially without a freeze. B2 doesn't launch high enough to set it up.

 

[Harlequin969]

So I might for for a style of CSZ that does exclusively drones. So mostly ending combos in drone setups, doing drone enhanced moved all over the place, etc etc. I really think it's a viable way to play CSZ as an alternative to the HTBs and a consistently more damaging way to play. Any thoughts on this?

 

[RM Ree]

So I might for for a style of CSZ that does exclusively drones. So mostly ending combos in drone setups, doing drone enhanced moved all over the place, etc etc. I really think it's a viable way to play CSZ as an alternative to the HTBs and a consistently more damaging way to play. Any thoughts on this?

Interesting thought, and it might deepen your understanding of the character. In the long term however, it seems very self limiting.

Worth exploring man. I wouldn't have found cancelling strings into drone enables bombs to combo where they otherwise wouldn't if I didn't scratch the surface of drone meta myself.

 

[Harlequin969]

Interesting thought, and it might deepen your understanding of the character. In the long term however, it seems very self limiting.

Worth exploring man. I wouldn't have found cancelling strings into drone enables bombs to combo where they otherwise wouldn't if I didn't scratch the surface of drone meta myself.

How would it be limiting? Just curious

 

[The_Tile]

So I might for for a style of CSZ that does exclusively drones. So mostly ending combos in drone setups, doing drone enhanced moved all over the place, etc etc. I really think it's a viable way to play CSZ as an alternative to the HTBs and a consistently more damaging way to play. Any thoughts on this?

I've been trying something similar to this where I've tried to cut out using bomb setups wherever I can and I'm trying to squeeze out as much damage as possible instead.

I feel at less of a disadvantage now I'm not getting out damaged so hard and he still gets good oki after slide anyway. I just use bombs for space control and zoning midscreen and once in a blue moon in the corner to keep people on their toes.

 

[RM Ree]

How would it be limiting? Just curious

Well using drones/ drone cancels is only one part of CSZ's gameplay. You could simply integrate the focus on drones into the conventional CSZ play style without feeling the need to choose between bomb set-ups or drone set-ups. You can have both, and in some situations (maybe you already have 3 drones) other options are better.

I do think good drone management is a hallmark of a good CSZ player, but it's one of many.

 

[Harlequin969]

Well using drones/ drone cancels is only one part of CSZ's gameplay. You could simply integrate the focus on drones into the conventional CSZ play style without feeling the need to choose between bomb set-ups or drone set-ups. You can have both, and in some situations (maybe you already have 3 drones) other options are better.

I do think good drone management is a hallmark of a good CSZ player, but it's one of many.

Agreed. I just want to shift my focus to Drone Setups as opposed to bomb setups. I won't not use them I'll just have a preference mainly because I like the damage that enchanged iceball and other things add

 

[Harlequin969]

Side note, am I the only one who ever feels overwhelmed when playing CSZ. Like he has so many tools and I feel like I need to use them all sometimes and freeze up in clutch moments

 

[RM Ree]

Side note, am I the only one who ever feels overwhelmed when playing CSZ. Like he has so many tools and I feel like I need to use them all sometimes and freeze up in clutch moments

The hardest decision is whether to go right or go left. Any decision is better than no decision, but doing nothing is also a decision, as long as it's deliberate.

With so many tools, there's a controlled chaos. But I feel like we can force that desperation on our opponents with bombs, corner set-ups, etc.

I understand the struggle though. I've fallen victim to it plenty, but it's a quality problem to have.

 

[Vigilante24]

So guys, what can CSZ do to make people respect his D1 on hit? I literally lost to a button mashing Johnny Cage that would mash armor or insta njp after my D1 HIT HIM smh. Anything I can do other than D1 Slide? I would much prefer not to have to resort to this tactic.

 

[Youphemism]

So guys, what can CSZ do to make people respect his D1 on hit? I literally lost to a button mashing Johnny Cage that would mash armor or insta njp after my D1 HIT HIM smh. Anything I can do other than D1 Slide? I would much prefer not to have to resort to this tactic.

He has a 10 frame mid you can use (F4)...

 

[Vigilante24]

He has a 10 frame mid you can use (F4)...

I actually attempted that once. Got hit with EX Nut Punch and lost the game. The salt was real.

Also, I noticed in Reo's guide that F43, Far Dive Kick, F131 Slide connects but I think I may have gotten it to connect once out of 50 attempts. Is there a specific timing or a visual key to help make this combo much more consistent? I would like that 24% meterless.

 

[Youphemism]

I actually attempted that once. Got hit with EX Nut Punch and lost the game. The salt was real.

Also, I noticed in Reo's guide that F43, Far Dive Kick, F131 Slide connects but I think I may have gotten it to connect once out of 50 attempts. Is there a specific timing or a visual key to help make this combo much more consistent? I would like that 24% meterless.

Well yeah, that's because it's only +8 on hit. You don't have to be pressing buttons all the time, if he's mashing buttons then bait the armour and full combo punish him.

I dunno I never used that combo.

 

[The_Tile]

So guys, what can CSZ do to make people respect his D1 on hit? I literally lost to a button mashing Johnny Cage that would mash armor or insta njp after my D1 HIT HIM smh. Anything I can do other than D1 Slide? I would much prefer not to have to resort to this tactic.

Try B2, it'll definitely whiff punish Cage's and certain other armor attacks and may punish his NJP.

 

[RM Ree]

Also, I noticed in Reo's guide that F43, Far Dive Kick, F131 Slide connects but I think I may have gotten it to connect once out of 50 attempts. Is there a specific timing or a visual key to help make this combo much more consistent? I would like that 24% meterless.

Run for longer than you think you should. Similarly difficult combo is b3u4 xx FDK, f43 xx FDK, run f131 xx slide

 

[Vigilante24]

Run for longer than you think you should. Similarly difficult combo is b3u4 xx FDK, f43 xx FDK, run f131 xx slide

Thanks for the advice man. I think I was actually able to figure something out that works for me. I do far divekick as late as possible, buffer run halfway down from the divekick, then the whole running longer and its worked out quite well. Im landing it in matches now. Feels amazing!

Still can't get it to work consistently on Goro tho. I was 1 for 20 on him but turned around and landed it 5 times in a row on Dvorah with same timing.

 

[Shaikhuzzaman]

So guys, what can CSZ do to make people respect his D1 on hit? I literally lost to a button mashing Johnny Cage that would mash armor or insta njp after my D1 HIT HIM smh. Anything I can do other than D1 Slide? I would much prefer not to have to resort to this tactic.

The only way to make people respect it is d1 then d1. You could also do d1 b2, d1 f4, d1 NJP, d1 NJK

 

[iAteUrLife]

Hey guys, do we have any tech for corner wake up input reversals? Im trying to use HTB's ALOT less now.

I have found that when knocking someone in the corner with F2-bomb set up. Then I get alot of people by doing either a B2 full on overhead (it catches jump outs if timed right even though it may not refreeze you get the pop up to combo into another f2 set up) or B2-slide. So turns it into a gimmick 50/50, of course with slide its minimal damage but from that point you can still pressure.

B2 has been my new go to for trip guarding jump-ins and punishing wake up throws/normals/short-range specials.

Also a mind game is after f2 ender drop your bomb wait and then go b2 oh (bomb won't freeze) do your combo into f2 again drop bomb do b2 immediately into slide (no bomb freeze) and of course in the midst of this shinnanigans you can do a htb or 21 tech throw to force them to guess your next move.

 

[Shaikhuzzaman]

Hey guys, do we have any tech for corner wake up input reversals? Im trying to use HTB's ALOT less now.

I have found that when knocking someone in the corner with F2-bomb set up. Then I get alot of people by doing either a B2 full on overhead (it catches jump outs if timed right even though it may not refreeze you get the pop up to combo into another f2 set up) or B2-slide. So turns it into a gimmick 50/50, of course with slide its minimal damage but from that point you can still pressure.

B2 has been my new go to for trip guarding jump-ins and punishing wake up throws/normals/short-range specials.

Also a mind game is after f2 ender drop your bomb wait and then go b2 oh (bomb won't freeze) do your combo into f2 again drop bomb do b2 immediately into slide (no bomb freeze) and of course in the midst of this shinnanigans you can do a htb or 21 tech throw to force them to guess your next move.

You can just sprint in to their body before they wake up and do a NJP and this can cross up their wakeup. It is very hard to do consistently so will take a lot of practice. Also 21D3 has very strange effects on wakeup in the corner as well, often if you do 21D3 NJP in the corner both the normal and reverse input will give you the same wakeup as CSZ crosses up once after the 21D3 and back again during NJP you will end up in the corner doing this though

 

[iAteUrLife]

You can just sprint in to their body before they wake up and do a NJP and this can cross up their wakeup. It is very hard to do consistently so will take a lot of practice. Also 21D3 has very strange effects on wakeup in the corner as well, often if you do 21D3 NJP in the corner both the normal and reverse input will give you the same wakeup as CSZ crosses up once after the 21D3 and back again during NJP you will end up in the corner doing this though

So 21 d3 does a cross up as well without running over the body?

 

[Shaikhuzzaman]

So 21 d3 does a cross up as well without running over the body?

In the corner. You would have to sprint midscreen

 

[Shaikhuzzaman]

So 21 d3 does a cross up as well without running over the body?

How come your looking for ways to cross up wakeups in the corner? By doing you will have read that they will wakeup and so instead you could just bait it a little and then punish instead

 

[iAteUrLife]

How come your looking for ways to cross up wakeups in the corner? By doing you will have read that they will wakeup and so instead you could just bait it a little and then punish instead

Just more options to have. Doing htb less and doing mind games now

 

[Marinjuana]

I don't know if this has been talked about before but if you space you f43~close dive kick to the point where the dive kick whiffs Cyber Sub will be at least +10 on block.

On most characters I tested it on this meant whiffing f4 from way back and only having the 3 connect. But on Bo Rai(Poor bobobo), I was able to get the dive kick to whiff from about max f4 range.

I say it's +10 because I was able to jail standing 2 with it. Probably not the best thing ever but hey +10.

 

[The_Tile]

I don't know if this has been talked about before but if you space you f43~close dive kick to the point where the dive kick whiffs Cyber Sub will be at least +10 on block.

On most characters I tested it on this meant whiffing f4 from way back and only having the 3 connect. But on Bo Rai(Poor bobobo), I was able to get the dive kick to whiff from about max f4 range.

I say it's +10 because I was able to jail standing 2 with it. Probably not the best thing ever but hey +10.

I wonder if he could do something similar with B3U4 and far DK to keep himself safe off a 50/50. It'd probably only work on certain hit boxes too if it even does but it's just a thought.

Anyway, nice find man.