Guide Wrath of the Jackalope - First Edition (Smoke Kombos and Frame Traps)

[arydious]

I never want to challenge you KT but Marvaz could consistently punish me with johnny after b2 3 SB, he could also hit me with lui kang.

 

[G4S KT]

I never want to challenge you KT but Marvaz could consistently punish me with johnny after b2 3 SB, he could also hit me with lui kang.

Interesting... I'm assuming this is offline; I make no claims to online.

I tested this with my roommate who plays a mean Sektor. He could punish me with Sektor's jab but not JC's or with a throw.

It's possible he's not fast enough, but we did multiple trials...

 

[arydious]

it was offline, also we did not test it, but i know it just happened to me while playing against him. It actually got to the point where i said screw smoke bomb up close cause he consistently raped me when i did it.

Could have been me not reacting quick enough or something. Ill try to test it more, i dod know the guys I normally play with at my house almost never punsish it, except the raiden player who supermans it once in a while.

 

[charlieonline]

If you're doing SB into d1 and get punished by superman then a 8f attack can punish this.

 

[G4S KT]

If you're doing SB into d1 and get punished by superman then a 8f attack can punish this.

If you follow up a blocked Smoke bomb with d1, to get the whole punish window you have to add the disadvantage frames (at least 7) to the execution frames of d1 (6) for a total of (at least) 13 frames.

There's a lot of shit that can punish that.

What I mean by punishing is that you are unable to block before your opponents retaliation connects; that's a true punish. If you can block something, it isn't a punish.

 

[McNasty]

nice work on the VSM stream last night KT I really liked the d1 smoke away. the cage match up is arrgghhh and what maxter did to cage scares me about the smoke-sektor match up didnt realize you can play THAT lame with him almost rivals smokes lame play abilities.

 

[G4S KT]

nice work on the VSM stream last night KT I really liked the d1 smoke away. the cage match up is arrgghhh and what maxter did to cage scares me about the smoke-sektor match up didnt realize you can play THAT lame with him almost rivals smokes lame play abilities.

lol, thanks. I feel like I was playing really poorly and getting blown up. Wish I had recorded some casuals here at NEC; playing much better so far.

And yea, Sektor's keep away is amazingly good. I hate it.

 

[arydious]

So, an update on smoke bomb. It turns out that although it isn't as safe as originally thought, it isn't as punishable either. From what I can tell, Sektor is the only character in the game that can get a punish beyond d1 and d3.

I thought it could be punished with a throw, making the disadvantage at least ten frames. This is wrong, it cannot be punished with a throw; you can jump out if they attempt a throw punish.

While Sektor's 6 frame jab can connect for a punish, Johnny Cage's 8 frame jab can't which puts the disadvantage after blocked smoke bomb at 7 frames, making it decently safe.

OK KT i did some more testing on thise. First thing to note is i have no idea what Liu Kand frame data is, but he could get me with his low starting combo or the high starting combo after a smoke bomb.

I kept using b23 sb to test it, and he definitely whooped my ass every single time. It was quite irritating

I just checked the frame data on Kang

2,1,3 - 8
b+3,1,2 - 10

Now it is possible he d3 me before the b3 so ill credit that for me falling for that, but for sure 213 hits so it is atleast -8 on block im not sure why johnnys 8 fram jab wasnt hitting when you tried it out, I have yet to try it with Johnny

 

[hardwire]

wait wait wait i thought this was common knowledge that you never end b23 with sb yes you will get your ass handed to you by most of the cast

i understand we have frame data but no its good on paper only use b23 then sb only if you hit

im not sure if we have half frames or not but smoke is indeed punishable on a wiffed/blocked sb

 

[arydious]

Yeah stupid muscle memory kills me lol

 

[kabelfritz]

you gotta be really focused to hitconfirm b23 into sb though.

 

[arydious]

yeah that too, seems like i may need to rethink that whole idea lol

 

[SZSR]

This is general Smoke user execution question, but i'm posting here to ask KT Smith.

I keep dropping b2, 3 like if I hit the b2 I won't hit 3 and if the whole string hits then the smoke bomb won't come out. I'm at a loss for what's messing me up (I can do it in practice mode just fine).

Any tips at all to get my execution up on b2, 3, smoke bomb?

 

[G4S KT]

This is general Smoke user execution question, but i'm posting here to ask KT Smith.

I keep dropping b2, 3 like if I hit the b2 I won't hit 3 and if the whole string hits then the smoke bomb won't come out. I'm at a loss for what's messing me up (I can do it in practice mode just fine).

Any tips at all to get my execution up on b2, 3, smoke bomb?

I'm not sure I understand the issue... Youre saying you connect with b2 on the ground but then 3 whiffs?

 

[SZSR]

I'm not sure I understand the issue... Youre saying you connect with b2 on the ground but then 3 whiffs?

No, I hit the b2, and piano my fingers to 3, then smoke bomb, but when I press them the 3, smoke bomb input just drops, or I end up getting a smoke bomb.

It's more of an execution thing, maybe i'm holding the controller weirdly?

 

[G4S KT]

No, I hit the b2, and piano my fingers to 3, then smoke bomb, but when I press them the 3, smoke bomb input just drops, or I end up getting a smoke bomb.

It's more of an execution thing, maybe i'm holding the controller weirdly?

Ok, if I'm understanding this correctly, I think you're inputting SB too fast.

Sorry if this is redundant info, but SB technically isn't part of the string. You're 2-in-1ing it out of the "3" of "b23" and it happens to combo on a grounded opponent. SB will also 2-in-1 out of b2, so what I think is happening is that you're inputting so fast that the SB is being 2-in-1'd out of b2 before the 3 comes out.

 

[SZSR]

Ok, if I'm understanding this correctly, I think you're inputting SB too fast.

Sorry if this is redundant info, but SB technically isn't part of the string. You're 2-in-1ing it out of the "3" of "b23" and it happens to combo on a grounded opponent. SB will also 2-in-1 out of b2, so what I think is happening is that you're inputting so fast that the SB is being 2-in-1'd out of b2 before the 3 comes out.

Ok that makes a lot of sense, yeah i'm used to doing all my inputs really quickly, so I guess slowing it down would help probably i'm used to machine gunning a lot of my moves into Smoke bomb so i'll keep this in mind next time I play.