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Would you want crazier moves in competitive I2?

Would you prefer to see crazier character designs?

  • Yes

    Votes: 47 90.4%
  • No

    Votes: 5 9.6%

  • Total voters
    52

SneakyTortoise

Official Master of Salt
This is something I've been thinking about lately, and I'm curious to hear other people's opinions on the matter, because I don't know where I stand.

Firstly, I'd like to say I think Injustice 2 is a great game, and easily NRS' most complete package as a game and their most balanced game competitively.

But, this is a fighting game about super heroes, not just martial artists, but heroes with insane powers and abilities. yet, despite these heroes having a plethora of wild abilities and powers in their lore, when it comes to fighting in I2, not many of them actually do anything too wild.

Now, I know the obvious reason why. NRS wanted a competitive game, and having characters doing crazy things makes polarising MUs much harder to avoid, but this has the downside of almost watering down the potential of the characters. I can't be the only one thinking that when I use someone with superpowers in a game, I want it to feel like I am using someone with superpowers, right?

What sparked this line of thinking, was playing Raiden. Now, this is the Thunder God we're talking about, yet, one of the most anti-climactic moments in this game for me, was seeing what his trait was. Imo, traits should definitely be something really unique, cool and a bit crazy for each character. So, when I saw that instead of that crazy lightning box, or even displacer orbs were connected to his trait, and instead he just gets a bit of the generic more damage/some specials affected, I was disappointed. (Just to clarify, I am not saying his trait isn't good, just that it's boring and feels like a missed opportunity).

Another thing that comes to mind regarding this, loads of the really hype moves people got excited about turned out to be gear moves. (Captain Cold's ice platforms spring to mind). Now, of course, there has to be balance, but does that mean that these crazy moves can't exist in competitive play? I'm not so sure.

I do understand that there's a fine line line, and that the crazier a move gets, the more chance there is that it creates polarising MUs, but I still think there were some missed opportunities and that NRS played it a little too safe with some characters. This could potentially be why some people find I2 boring to watch, and prefer to watch the lunacy of MVCI.

Just to clarify, the sort of craziness I'd like to see more of, is at Brainiac's level. Brainiac is incredibly fun because he feels unique and completely different to anyone else. He's one of the few where the first time you see him used at a high level, you're left thinking "wtf is this madness". Yet, he is pretty well balanced, and very punishable on a lot of his madness. This is the route I kind of wish NRS had taken with more characters.


What are your thoughts?
TLDR: Would you prefer to see the conservative approach to character designs, ensuring a balanced game, or would you rather see crazier designs, potentially leading to more imbalance?
 
The 'crazy' approach was already taken in Injustice 1, so... yeah.
Not with Cyborg in injustice 1, he was very shoto-esque with setups. I was hoping they would take a more creative approach, or revamp him in this game, but he's very similar (you could argue Cyborg isn't the right example for this thread, and I wouldn't disagree haha).

I do agree though as far as the creativity and craziness. I have a lot of fun in this game but you can definitely see that NRS wanted to take the safe route. Can't blame them though, one of the biggest complaints from the previous game was balance, and with balance you loose a lot of the crazy stuff. If it's possible for both to be done, I would love to see it. Still enjoying the game despite it :D
 

SneakyTortoise

Official Master of Salt
The 'crazy' approach was already taken in Injustice 1, so... yeah.
Kind of, but not really. The top 5 had all the crazy moves, without much consideration for balance. Then the 6-11 had slightly less crazy things, and some drawbacks. Then as you go down from there, the characters have pretty much nothing crazy about them and significant drawbacks.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
Once this tournament season/year is officially over I don't think it's exactly out of the question for NRS to consider adding gear moves to competitive movesets.
 

SneakyTortoise

Official Master of Salt
Once this tournament season/year is officially over I don't think it's exactly out of the question for NRS to consider adding gear moves to competitive movesets.
I think it is out of the question though, sadly. They've said it's impossible to even have things like visual augmentative from gear sets in competitive play, from the way they've coded the game to have gear and non-gear as completely separate.
 
No... The majority of people of TYM hated the variation system and this would make it even worse... Some moves are just straight out broken moves with no balance consideration... So... Nope!...
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I think it is out of the question though, sadly. They've said it's impossible to even have things like visual augmentative from gear sets in competitive play, from the way they've coded the game to have gear and non-gear as completely separate.
But particle effect color changes are visual augments.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
The majority of tym hated the variation system? Why? The execution didn't fall in to place until much later but the idea was brilliant.

Anyway.

I'd love to see things get a little nuttier, if we could maintain reasonable balance of course. I could accept some loss of equilibrium for the sake of fun and craziness though.

It is why games like Marvel have lasted so long, and it's why MvCI is tolerated at all (sorry, but that game is barely past alpha) because it's fun to watch and it's fun to play and it's all a little insane.

I know there is this pervading, old school mentality in place where we aren't supposed to want patches and all that and the game is supposed to breath.. and I agree in part, having preached it myself before.. but I think a year+ is enough time to take a damn breath. Id love to see a large s2 shakeup, maybe roll some gear only moves into base kits. It's not likely but it would be cool, and it would be helpful to keep the game fresh.
 

EntropicByDesign

It's all so very confusing.
I was crazy disappointed with Raiden personally. Not from a tier list standing, dunno where he will fall there, but just gameplay.. he feels kinda boring. He's a damn god though.. there should have been insane setplay and really cool shit, and instead he's just.. not. Probably the worst missed opportunity for a trait in tbe game imo.
 

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
I was crazy disappointed with Raiden personally. Not from a tier list standing, dunno where he will fall there, but just gameplay.. he feels kinda boring. He's a damn god though.. there should have been insane setplay and really cool shit, and instead he's just.. not. Probably the worst missed opportunity for a trait in tbe game imo.
You want the space stone box don't you
 

Jelan

Aquaman is dead lel
I find myself genuinly dumbfounded by the way equipable abilities were handled.

On the one hand I understand that would make balancing harder; however, MKX was handled decently with the varistions and such. As it is right now it's saddening, and puts another bar of entry into competitive play for newcomers.

If abilities were not sacrified to make the game 'longer' but were available by default and selectable on the character screen like Ultras were in the SF4 series we would have a much more varied and interesting game.

Furthermore it would make the divide between 'competitive' and 'casual' game modes smaller.
 

DC4-3

Low tier button masher.
Just to clarify, the sort of craziness I'd like to see more of, is at Brainiac's level...

...He's one of the few where the first time you see him used at a high level, you're left thinking "wtf is this madness".
This "madness" you speak of can only be understood by those who possess that 12th level intellect. Mere mortals cannot comprehend the thoughts behind our reason to float, dive kick or d1 into dox drill.

In all seriousness though I agree with you on the fact that because Nrs played it safe with most characters, they feel like they've come up short to their potential for having a cool moveset (or they do but it's gear) and watching these fights can somtimes become boring or stagnant to some viewers.

Also you talked a little bit about how at times we were disappointed to find out that certain moves that looked hype in gameplay trailers turned out to be gear moves, which is true. Now for good reasons we asked gear moves to be banned in tournaments, but I think we should look into some gear moves and see which ones could potentially just be in the characters base moveset. That's not too much to ask for is it?
 

Gooberking

FGC Cannon Fodder
It's an interesting question, and I think there are a lot factors points of view to consider.

I really like playing the game, and it's hard to be significantly critical of it when it comes to everything it does and tries to accomplish from a technical sense. With that said, I think it does suffer from some serious, what I will call "emotional" issues.

A major attempt was made to please a competitive base for the game that spent every waking moment bashing the ever loving hell out of MKX's competitive viability. And because the game has to appeal to more than the competitive 0.5% (or whatever it is) they cut the game in half. We ended up with something that is more competitively appealing, but emotionally dull to experience. Emotionally, the game just isn't hype unless you understand and play it. In fact, It's more frustrating to watch than anything. I don't think any game is less fun to watch ignorant, and no game has more frustrating situations the viewer has to wait out than IJ2.

The game is still cool, has tons of content, and is artistically on point. I don't know that it should apologize for what it is, but that doesn't mean the public wants to sit around and watch DS mirrors on a Sunday afternoon. That situation translates in to viewership issues, which potentially translates into overall popularity of the game issues, which relates into how much point there is in even competing. Could sexier, super hero style moves have changed that? I don't know, and I don't think so without changing the nature of the game, which is basically what people spent 2 years demanding they get.

Another issue I feel, is the segregation between competitive play, and casual. I'm a serious enough player that I instinctively don't want to play in an imbalanced way, but I can feel that lack of choice others are getting after having had MKX and seeing it all right in front of me. I feel left out as player despite all the effort put into making the competitive side fair, and all the effort put into making a megaton of content for casual play. I don't know how big a demographic I am sitting in or if we matter by the numbers, but it's a thing for me personally. I was originally worried that competitive base characters would feel like playing variationless in MKX. I don't know that is wholly accurate in the way it played out, but it does describe a little of what I feel when I play. If characters felt a little bigger, or more "super" then maybe I wouldn't feel quite like that.

There does seem to be something going on with the game's ability to get and hold viewer interest. EVO finals had less than half if MKX last EVO final and never seemed particularly strong in comparison to other games (maybe I'm wrong, I would need to see hard numbers to say for sure.) My Twitch follows center around NRS players and next to nobody seems to be playing IJ2 right now. Granted, MVCI is shiny and new, but new tends to stick and become the new norm. If a lot of NRS players are moving on, then that's a problem 6 months in.
 

Dankster Morgan

It is better this way
Yes. Take a character like Robin, he's Batman's son, Ra's Al Guhl's grandson, he's basically a super ninja running around with a sword and a assassin's attitude but Batman's high tech equipment.

MAN IF HE ISNT THE MOST BORNING PIECE OF SHIT IN THE WORLD TO PLAY
 
It's an interesting question, and I think there are a lot factors points of view to consider.

I really like playing the game, and it's hard to be significantly critical of it when it comes to everything it does and tries to accomplish from a technical sense. With that said, I think it does suffer from some serious, what I will call "emotional" issues.

A major attempt was made to please a competitive base for the game that spent every waking moment bashing the ever loving hell out of MKX's competitive viability. And because the game has to appeal to more than the competitive 0.5% (or whatever it is) they cut the game in half. We ended up with something that is more competitively appealing, but emotionally dull to experience. Emotionally, the game just isn't hype unless you understand and play it. In fact, It's more frustrating to watch than anything. I don't think any game is less fun to watch ignorant, and no game has more frustrating situations the viewer has to wait out than IJ2.

The game is still cool, has tons of content, and is artistically on point. I don't know that it should apologize for what it is, but that doesn't mean the public wants to sit around and watch DS mirrors on a Sunday afternoon. That situation translates in to viewership issues, which potentially translates into overall popularity of the game issues, which relates into how much point there is in even competing. Could sexier, super hero style moves have changed that? I don't know, and I don't think so without changing the nature of the game, which is basically what people spent 2 years demanding they get.

Another issue I feel, is the segregation between competitive play, and casual. I'm a serious enough player that I instinctively don't want to play in an imbalanced way, but I can feel that lack of choice others are getting after having had MKX and seeing it all right in front of me. I feel left out as player despite all the effort put into making the competitive side fair, and all the effort put into making a megaton of content for casual play. I don't know how big a demographic I am sitting in or if we matter by the numbers, but it's a thing for me personally. I was originally worried that competitive base characters would feel like playing variationless in MKX. I don't know that is wholly accurate in the way it played out, but it does describe a little of what I feel when I play. If characters felt a little bigger, or more "super" then maybe I wouldn't feel quite like that.

There does seem to be something going on with the game's ability to get and hold viewer interest. EVO finals had less than half if MKX last EVO final and never seemed particularly strong in comparison to other games (maybe I'm wrong, I would need to see hard numbers to say for sure.) My Twitch follows center around NRS players and next to nobody seems to be playing IJ2 right now. Granted, MVCI is shiny and new, but new tends to stick and become the new norm. If a lot of NRS players are moving on, then that's a problem 6 months in.
In an attempt to simplify the game and make it more accessible. ( and easier to balance and fix)
they made the string sets people have very bare bones with very little room for creativity.
Where's the tech? Seems like everything was found week 1.
Apart from sonic fox and captain cold.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
yeah characters dont feel like they have enough identity playstyle wise. They might have slightly different buttons and moves and overall power level, but at the end of the day plenty more or less do a bunch of very similar stuff all game. Also, depth wise and tech this game doesn't feel like it even approaches what MKX had. It's whatever though, if people are happy with I2 i'm cool with keeping it in MK, just hope MK isn't as... bland.

Character design that I like I2 wise:

Brainiac
Cold

honorable mentions for having real depth tech wise:
Flash
Cyborg
Dr Fate



that's probly bout it. Rest feel boring as fuck, and even some of these like Cyborg and to a lesser extent Fate, rarely even get to use their depth cause really they should just be zoning as much as they can
 

SM StarGazer

The voice of reason in a Sea of Salt
yes. make me feel like im playing a superhero game. Make the villain hit like it's super evil of them, like Grodd, his gameplay screams disrespect and he even clotheslines you
 

omooba

fear the moobs
don't mean to hate on the game at all but me and my friends stopped playing a long time ago cus the characters just don't seem special. the game is very balanced but the play styles are kinda bland. not necessarily saying they're the same they're just bland. nothing feels unique like in inj1 or mkx so yeah i think crazier moves would help