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Why The Joker Should Be a Guest Character in Mortal Kombat 11.

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I know that you guys are gonna be mad at the very idea of this for various reasons, but please hear me out.

When NRS/WB put guest characters in their games, they select these chars under a certain theme. In both MK9 and MKX, all of them were horror movie chars (Freddy Kruger, Jason Voorhees, Leatherface, Predator and Alien), while in IJ1 and IJ2 it was at first guest chars from MK (Scorpion, Sub-Zero and Raiden) but then they added a secondary theme of comic book chars from other universes (Teenage Mutant Ninja Turtles and Hellboy). With the chances that Spawn, a comic book character, will make it to MK11, it only makes sense that the second char that will fit the theme of a comic book char will also join the MK11 roster. But then of course comes another category that this char needs to fit, and that is of the gore and violence, so it can match the gory nature of MK, which is why NRS/WB choose those horror movie chars as their guest chars. And guess what? NRS/WB don't need to search that much, because they got one char that can fit perfectly for the job, and WB already have the rights for that char because it is a DC Universe char. That character is Batman's most recognizable villain, the Joker.

Now you will surely say that "Joker can't fit in because all of the DC chars aren't gory enough to fit that role of a guest character in MK11". I got news for you, Joker CAN FIT IN, because he has done some of the sickest, most twisted things in the DC Universe that can make the whole DC Universe to be truly dark and, yes, gory and full of shock value that can fit in the Mortal Kombat Universe.

I wanna show you this pic that I'm sure all of the DC fans will recognize. This comes from the Death of the Family saga, when Joker had literally CUT HIS OWN FACE OFF AND THEN PUT IT BACK ON AS IF IT WAS A MASK, where you can clearly see the flies buzzing about his rotting flesh underneath. And then at one point he even put it upside down, so you can see his flies from all angles.



I mean, if Joker can do something like this to himself, imagine what he could do with a Fatality, a Brutality or an X-Ray in an MK game. You can't see this comic and not think for even a second that Joker would indeed fit in the MK Universe. Also a fun fact, in IJ2, one of Joker's first round winning quotes is a clear easter egg to that quote at the bottom of this page: "I will turn that frown upside down".

Here is another point, in MK Vs. DC, where some of the Fatalities were toned down (and yes, only some, because some others were gory enough or at least could've fit in a more gory MK game), Joker has a Gun Fatality where he shoots his opponent off screen, but he also has an uncensored version of this Fatality.


And then, in MK9, Shang Tsung had a Fatality that was a clear reference to that Fatality.


That means that Joker, in a way, already was a guest character in an MK game.

So I think Joker should be a guest character in MK11, and just like how NRS did with Scorpion, Sub-Zero and Raiden for IJ1 and IJ2, they should make Joker to play the same as he does in IJ1 and IJ2 but with some minor tweaks of course to fit the MK playstyle. Even if Spawn won't make the cut, I think Joker will be just perfect for the job. As not only he is well-known and popular enough, but he can be violent and gory in his own, "funny" way.
 
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Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Fair enough... then... They should be two or three of them, to make it fair for the guest characters that appeared on injustice.
I personally think (and I know I might be wrong here), that Scarecrow (from IJ2) and Doomsday or Solomon Grundy (from IJ1) could also fit that spot. But I think that having 3 DC chars in one MK game will be a bit too much, 2 will be just fine (and then have 2 more guest chars from another universe). So maybe they should put the Joker in, and then add one more, probably Scarecrow or Doomsday.
 
Joker in Mortal Kombat would actually work very nicely. A character transferring from Injustice to MK would take a bit more work than vice versa, but certainly not more than creating a new character from scratch anyway.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Joker in Mortal Kombat would actually work very nicely. A character transferring from Injustice to MK would take a bit more work than vice versa, but certainly not more than creating a new character from scratch anyway.
How is taking an IJ char to MK would take a bit more work then the other way around? Can you explain please?
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
I'd rather they just add characters from their own universe or guest characters who wouldn't normally be in a FG e.g Spawn

I'm over NRS just being lazy in character creation for DLC and just deciding to add already existing characters from another game. Especially when they keep the character's gameplay almost the exact same.

I personally have doubts about him or Spawn being in MK11.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I'd rather they just add characters from their own universe or guest characters who wouldn't normally be in a FG e.g Spawn

I'm over NRS just being lazy in character creation for DLC and just deciding to add already existing characters from another game. Especially when they keep the character's gameplay almost the exact same.

I personally have doubts about him or Spawn being in MK11.
That's not them being lazy, it's just they don't have to do as much, as they do changes in terms of animation, voice acting and frame data. Also FTR, Sub-Zero's gameplan in IJ2 has some very distinguished gameplan changes then what he has in MKX. And while those chars do exist in other game from them, they bring money. I've seen companies that were and still are 10 times lazier and less creative (cough* Capcom). Those changes for NRS/WB DLC aren't lazy at all.

And like I said, even if Spawn doesn't make the cut, Joker can still make it in. And I think he should be in considering the reasons I've brought up.
 

Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
That's not them being lazy, it's just they don't have to do as much, as they do changes in terms of animation, voice acting and frame data. Also FTR, Sub-Zero's gameplan in IJ2 has some very distinguished gameplan changes then what he has in MKX. And while those chars do exist in other game from them, they bring money. I've seen companies that were and still are 10 times lazier and less creative (cough* Capcom). Those changes for NRS/WB DLC aren't lazy at all.

And like I said, even if Spawn doesn't make the cut, Joker can still make it in. And I think he should be in considering the reasons I've brought up.
You decide it how you will, but that's basically the definition of lazy for me. It's doing the bare minimum, which adding a character from an existing game allows you to do, since it all mostly exists already

Sub Zero and Raiden's gameplan is distinguished from MKX's but there is a very significant amount of their moves that are the same.

Sub Zero
  • Ice Klone
  • B2
  • F2
  • F3
  • S1
  • D3
  • D2 (Cryomancer variation)
And they're just the ones that are basically the exact same, they still took some of his MKX moves and just changed their properties like:
  • Icicle grab
  • Ice Ball
  • Slide
  • DB1
  • 223
I'm not saying what you think is wrong, but I buy new fighting games to play new characters. Sub Zero was different from his MKX counterpart but similar enough that a lot of basic MU knowledge against him I could just reuse i.e don't poke through klone, watch out for F2, MB Iceball trades etc. I'm buying MK11 to play new characters personally, which is why I'm also against just adding 70% of the MKX roster that most people want anyway.

Raiden is a prime example of what I'm talking about - 95% of the community didn't want him, 90% people would've preferred to have more DC characters, his move list is still very similar to his MKX one except they basically nerfed him and as a result he's become the least played DLC, possibly least played character, in the entire game.

Sub Zero's addition was tasteful after awhile I guess but I didn't enjoy seeing his addition as the first DLC personally.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
You decide it how you will, but that's basically the definition of lazy for me. It's doing the bare minimum, which adding a character from an existing game allows you to do, since it all mostly exists already

Sub Zero and Raiden's gameplan is distinguished from MKX's but there is a very significant amount of their moves that are the same.

Sub Zero
  • Ice Klone
  • B2
  • F2
  • F3
  • S1
  • D3
  • D2 (Cryomancer variation)
And they're just the ones that are basically the exact same, they still took some of his MKX moves and just changed their properties like:
  • Icicle grab
  • Ice Ball
  • Slide
  • DB1
  • 223
I'm not saying what you think is wrong, but I buy new fighting games to play new characters. Sub Zero was different from his MKX counterpart but similar enough that a lot of basic MU knowledge against him I could just reuse i.e don't poke through klone, watch out for F2, MB Iceball trades etc. I'm buying MK11 to play new characters personally, which is why I'm also against just adding 70% of the MKX roster that most people want anyway.

Raiden is a prime example of what I'm talking about - 95% of the community didn't want him, 90% people would've preferred to have more DC characters, his move list is still very similar to his MKX one except they basically nerfed him and as a result he's become the least played DLC, possibly least played character, in the entire game.

Sub Zero's addition was tasteful after awhile I guess but I didn't enjoy seeing his addition as the first DLC personally.
I don't wanna go off topic too much because I do wanna keep this thread around the Joker specifically, so I will end it with this.

Judging by your by your post, I think you're taking it too seriously and too negatively. NRS aren't doing the bare minimum at all in any of their stuff, including the characters that they take from their previous games. As I've said there are other companies who are doing way less work and do way less creative things for various genres . If you think THAT's bare minimum then you clearly haven't seen how little these companies have done with their games, not just for Fighting Games.

And yes a lot of people didn't want to see Raiden in IJ2, but as far as I know a lot of people did wanna see him, so the numbers of 90% and 95% are way too high. And Raiden came to IJ2 for a reason, to celebrate the 25th anniversary of MK, and NRS/WB added the Black Lightning skin so that you could have another DC char in the game in a way. And we all knew that Sub-Zero would make the cut to IJ2, it was a no brainier, and both Sub-Zero and Raiden turned out to be awesome as usual.

And as for MK11, yes some of the chars in the game should be new ones that weren't in MK9 and/or MKX, but a good amount of them should be, because like you said, that's what people want anyway. So if NRS/WB are giving what the people want, there is nothing wrong with it.

Now going back to the topic.
 
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DarksydeDash

You know me as RisingShieldBro online.
He's also Garbage in every version of Injustice so making him actually usable would be nice.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Can we just get the mk9 cast and expand on that. We know they have the base model for all the characters they’ve used in store.

50 character roster! Instead of 3 variations for 30 characters
How about getting 40-44 characters with 2 Variations per char and not just from MK9 but all of MK games? That way we get a huge selection of chars while also not sticking to one gameplan option for each char, while also getting even more chars overall beyond 50, and you don't stick to just one game just because SOME PEOPLE preferred it over the all of the rest.

And yes, add a few guest characters in ti too, 4 will be enough, and one of them is the Joker.
 
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Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I know it can be easier balancing a game with more characters but 40-44 could be too much.
IJ2 has 41 chars including all of the DLC, not to mention that MKX has 100 Variations and that game is very well balanced, so 40-44 isn't too much at all. Of course they will add more chars over time via DLC like they do in all of their games.
 
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Sugarwatermixlegit

Bruce Campbell 4 MK!!!
I’m in the boat that actually digs guests if done right
Huge horror movie fan, so, I would prefer more of that to be DLC however the joker could be pretty cool.
But I think Pennywise is probably going to be a guest character because he’s owned by WB and the new IT movie comes out in 2019, and two clown characters might be a bit strange
I’m not opposed to the idea at all though, an injustice character in MK could be pretty cool. And only fair.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I’m in the boat that actually digs guests if done right
Huge horror movie fan, so, I would prefer more of that to be DLC however the joker could be pretty cool.
But I think Pennywise is probably going to be a guest character because he’s owned by WB and the new IT movie comes out in 2019, and two clown characters might be a bit strange
I’m not opposed to the idea at all though, an injustice character in MK could be pretty cool. And only fair.
Actually that might be the reason why they both will be in. Like I said, NRS/WB like to keep their line of guest chars under a certain theme for each game, with IJ2 had 2 themes, one for MK chars (Sub-Zero and Raiden) and on for comic book chars that are not a part of the DC Universe (TMNT and Hellboy), so having two evil clown chars might be a match. Or maybe there will be only 3 guest chars overall, with Spawn being a comic book char, Pennywise being an evil clown char from a horror movie, and then Joker will be a mixture of both.
 

Sugarwatermixlegit

Bruce Campbell 4 MK!!!
Actually that might be the reason why they both will be in. Like I said, NRS/WB like to keep their line of guest chars under a certain theme for each game, with IJ2 had 2 themes, one for MK chars (Sub-Zero and Raiden) and on for comic book chars that are not a part of the DC Universe (TMNT and Hellboy), so having two evil clown chars might be a match. Or maybe there will be only 3 guest chars overall, with Spawn being a comic book char, Pennywise being an evil clown char from a horror movie, and then Joker will be a mixture of both.
I can see that, makes sense
It’s definitely a possibility if DC gives the ok to it. I still think 4 is probably what’s going to happen however
I would be pretty surprised if Michael Myers isn’t in MK11
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I can see that, makes sense
It’s definitely a possibility if DC gives the ok to it. I still think 4 is probably what’s going to happen however
I would be pretty surprised if Michael Myers isn’t in MK11
Yeah Micheal Myers will make sense. I think that in that case, the line of guest chars will be The Joker, Spawn, Micheal Myers and Pennywise. That actually makes a lot of sense when you think about it, 2 comic book chars and 2 horror movie chars, all can fit extremely well in an MK game.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Or a new character with a new design instead of putting a character that was super unpopular in the last two games he was in into a new game so he can be a wasted slot. Unless they want to entirely redesign his tools kit. In which case they may as well just put another character in.

Should definitely put a character that has the potential for some cool shit. Like as annoying AF alien was putting him in a game made sense cause of the design potential around him. Joker doesn't really have potential for character design that's really specific to him with lore and stuff. Laughing gas and stupid exploding toys and knives is about it. That basically just turns into a bomb character with shit projectiles and bog standard melee moves with a knife