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General/Other - Alien Why Tarkatan may be Alien's best variation

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
And there is many more reasons to choose Acidic over Tarkatan Zoning being one of them, Space control being the second and U+3 being a huge one. just the fact that you have U+3 in your toolset allows for so much control its sick. Exo sting is a conditioner that should not be downplayed, and the fact it stacks is not to be taken lightly. yes Tarkatan is safer whoopty do. ill take coverage/Zoning/Space control/corner vortex/ and Restand over Pseudo Safe. Anyday. but how about that Konjurer everyone is sleeping on. its a turn changer and a half IE constant pressure when used right.
Shows how little you know about either variation. You don't get a corner vortex, you aren't near plus enough to 50/50. You can't just brush something like safety under the rug. Fact- Acidic Alien can't do a combo without spending a bar and being minus a trillion. Fact- Tarkatan Alien can hit confirm his 50/50 be pseudo safe in a lot of situations, and not spend meter unless he gets the hit. Your opponent if they have no meter has to make a read to punish a 50/50 they already guessed right on. That is more fucked up than anything Acidic does. Zoning isnt a big deal in MKXL because over half the cast has ways to fuck you up for even trying.

Now watch me get branded an Acidic downplayer even though I said nothing but facts, and also saying I think Acidic is top 5, just not better than Tarkatan.
 

YoloRoll1stHit

Publicly Educated
I think otherwise. You can't just compare tools to say Tarkatan is better Acidic overall. There are matchups that Acidic does better than Tarkatan. Like vs Cassie Cage: Acidic can outfootsie Cassie and throw out his long normals into acid all day, until Cassie gets in her B1 range there's NOTHING she can do about that. Tarkatan can 50/50 into rekka, but Cassie has 13f armor to OS, it doesn't launch but it's annoying to fight her upclose, guess her mixups and get knocked down
 
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Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
I think otherwise. You can't just compare tools to say Tarkatan is better Acidic overall. There are matchups that Acidic does better than Tarkatan. Like vs Cassie Cage: Acidic can outfootsie Cassie and throw out his long normals into acid all day, until Cassie gets in her B1 range there's NOTHING she can do about that. Tarkatan can 50/50 into rekka, but Cassie has 13f armor to OS, it doesn't launch but it's annoying to fight her upclose, guess her mixups and get knocked down
Yeah and there are specific variations do better vs other characters too. Stunt double cage does good against Grandmaster and A-List gets murdered, yet A-List is the better character.
 
Now watch me get branded an Acidic downplayer even though I said nothing but facts
Chill dawg, literally no one is going to say this. I got the feeling tweedy's rubbing off on you, seeing as that tweedy says this every single time he says a controversial opinion about alien

@Tweedy fair points, I was wrong then.

As mentioned before however, I still think that Acidic zoning is a bit... how do I put this... underconsidered (not a word, but fits my message). And it's definitely more overwhelming to certain matchups, especially the characters with poor mobility.

Ultimately, this thread doesn't even matter and the question posed is kind of pointless.
Also, I get why you're riled up @Tweedy , i spoke on something I didn't understand fully and I shouldn't have -- I'll admit it and I apologize. But you need to learn to not get your panties in a bunch over everything on the internet. It's really no wonder you wind up in a lot of drama and find yourself in sticky situations. Yet you often complain about being the one that TYM loves to hate.

You also go out of your way to misconstrue arguments to fit your agenda
This discussion is pointless because the only people who think that Acidic is this god tier variation in comparison to Tarkatan
I read through the entire thread just to be sure. Literally no one is arguing that Acidic is god-tiered compared to Tarkatan; all I said (and similar positions held as mine) is that I hesitate to call acidic the obviously superior variation.
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
Chill dawg, literally no one is going to say this. I got the feeling tweedy's rubbing off on you, seeing as that tweedy says this every single time he says a controversial opinion about alien

@Tweedy fair points, I was wrong then.

As mentioned before however, I still think that Acidic zoning is a bit... how do I put this... underconsidered (not a word, but fits my message). And it's definitely more overwhelming to certain matchups, especially the characters with poor mobility.

Ultimately, this thread doesn't even matter and the question posed is kind of pointless.
Also, I get why you're riled up @Tweedy , i spoke on something I didn't understand fully and I shouldn't have -- I'll admit it and I apologize. But you need to learn to not get your panties in a bunch over everything on the internet. It's really no wonder you wind up in a lot of drama and find yourself in sticky situations. Yet you often complain about being the one that TYM loves to hate.

You also go out of your way to misconstrue arguments to fit your agenda


I read through the entire thread just to be sure. Literally no one is arguing that Acidic is god-tiered compared to Tarkatan; all I said (and similar positions held as mine) is that I hesitate to call acidic the obviously superior variation.
Tweedy isn't rubbing off on me he is his own person with his own opinions, so am I.

And yeah Acidic is definitely better in some matchups, I just think Tarkatan is overall superior. Most of the cast have either a teleport, or fast mobility tool, or of course the run button which will stamp out zoning. Yes Acidic can zone, but no way he keeps you out the whole match, unless you're playing maybe BRC or Goro or someone.
 

Tweedy

Noob
You're a maniac @meanzuga

You posted a gif of someone pretending that they're shooting themselves in the head, and i'm the one overreacting? lol

I'm not going to change. Either deal with it or don't respond to my posts.
 

shura30

Shura
EX moves have existed for like 20 years mate
that's why I wrote meter burn and not EX
examples I'm referring to:

takeda's flurry
tarkatan's ex grab
liukang's bicycle kick

the possibility of mashing said moves THEN launch after hitconfirm is just dumb and adds another layer of coinflip to a game that really doesn't need them
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Shows how little you know about either variation. You don't get a corner vortex, you aren't near plus enough to 50/50. You can't just brush something like safety under the rug. Fact- Acidic Alien can't do a combo without spending a bar and being minus a trillion. Fact- Tarkatan Alien can hit confirm his 50/50 be pseudo safe in a lot of situations, and not spend meter unless he gets the hit. Your opponent if they have no meter has to make a read to punish a 50/50 they already guessed right on. That is more fucked up than anything Acidic does. Zoning isnt a big deal in MKXL because over half the cast has ways to fuck you up for even trying.

Now watch me get branded an Acidic downplayer even though I said nothing but facts, and also saying I think Acidic is top 5, just not better than Tarkatan.
sup danktser hows it going. havent herd from you in a while: im sure everything i bsaid is still valid i may have left oiut soem thigs and i apprecite you adding what i forgot. i just feel a slight bit different than you when it comes to which variation is better.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
EX moves have existed for like 20 years mate
almost MK2 right, for some reason i cant remember. weqs it MK3 or UMK3? fuck i remmebr playing them but just not, i know they had run back then but fuck. Brain blank. anyways i think its awesome. otherwise we would have constnt cancel pressur for days and no way out.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
EX moves have existed for like 20 years mate
hey do you/your bro have a free youtube channel with tech for Robots, me and my bro are useing them as well, once CSZ and Cyrax get some love we gonna start some serious labbing. he likes CSZ and Sektor and i like Cyrax and Smoke.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Shows how little you know about either variation. You don't get a corner vortex, you aren't near plus enough to 50/50. You can't just brush something like safety under the rug. Fact- Acidic Alien can't do a combo without spending a bar and being minus a trillion. Fact- Tarkatan Alien can hit confirm his 50/50 be pseudo safe in a lot of situations, and not spend meter unless he gets the hit. Your opponent if they have no meter has to make a read to punish a 50/50 they already guessed right on. That is more fucked up than anything Acidic does. Zoning isnt a big deal in MKXL because over half the cast has ways to fuck you up for even trying.

Now watch me get branded an Acidic downplayer even though I said nothing but facts, and also saying I think Acidic is top 5, just not better than Tarkatan.
your not a downplayer, you made valid points, someone like me might say that the match is situational depending on who your playing and how the start goes, but none the less nothing downplaying about that post.

you just gotta brush off most of them, someone on TYM is bound to take something the wrong way: or 50 something people see the same word and interpret it 40 different ways. thats TYM.

some may not understand that you are not actuially mad at me, or hating on anyone that you are just expressing your point of view. im not gonna take offense. shit i debate all the time on here as well. ohh on the vortex is 11 Plus enough for a vortex? i see wher eyou are coming from, cuz they have option befor his OH or low would come out, and 11 is not enough so Vortex is not correct and i should have stated Pseudo Vortex! sorry corrected now:) and you are right. just one part i would leave out:) and alls good. not saying you went to far or anything, i was wrong, but i certainly know alien. I just made some typing errors;) tanks id rather you state it in open than others misunderstand me and go off that.


Some times i call certain things vortexs that reallya re not like Sub Zero GM when he sets clone than combos you into it and on wakeup uses either OH or LOw and they have 1-4 frames to armor, not really a vortex but damn hard to counter, basically forces a guess. but yes with prctice they would have options other than block, and i should state when thats possible.
 
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MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
Who cares

Come October 4th, Alien will become irrelevant with how NRS deals with nerfing.
I know right? I really hope for all that they learned how to adjust a character without fucking with universal moves. its getting dumb how they ruin all variaitons when they nerf.
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
that's why I wrote meter burn and not EX
examples I'm referring to:

takeda's flurry
tarkatan's ex grab
liukang's bicycle kick

the possibility of mashing said moves THEN launch after hitconfirm is just dumb and adds another layer of coinflip to a game that really doesn't need them
If you meant MB after the move comes out, you should have specified it man.

I agree that it's kinda silly moves are safe on block and on hit you can MB for a full combo.

The only example I don't agree with in terms of BS is Takeda. His BF2 is mad unsafe on block. Then again, if Takeda of all characters wants to dial in a launcher on hit, he should risk losing the bar outright if he wants that launch. Not hit it and not lose the bar on block.
 

shura30

Shura
If you meant MB after the move comes out, you should have specified it man.

I agree that it's kinda silly moves are safe on block and on hit you can MB for a full combo.

The only example I don't agree with in terms of BS is Takeda. His BF2 is mad unsafe on block. Then again, if Takeda of all characters wants to dial in a launcher on hit, he should risk losing the bar outright if he wants that launch. Not hit it and not lose the bar on block.
I believe meter burn already meant that but whatever

My post tho wasn't made to go in deep with specific characters, the possibility itself to have such tool in general is unfair to those who have to commit to a wakeup with the same amount of negative frames

I might agree with MB if the special itself hasn't already an EX version (in this case takeda fits pretty well the example because standalone exflurry exists) or if it won't launch for a full combo/damage but this would just ease the pain, if you want damage output either you git gud at hitconfirms, reads and other fighting game basics

another one is goro's punchwalk, goro might not be top tier but the tool is still silly

side note, I feel the same about scorpion's cancellable teleport which can be done at multiple distances from the opponent
 

PND_Ketchup

"More deadly than the dawn"
I believe meter burn already meant that but whatever

My post tho wasn't made to go in deep with specific characters, the possibility itself to have such tool in general is unfair to those who have to commit to a wakeup with the same amount of negative frames

I might agree with MB if the special itself hasn't already an EX version (in this case takeda fits pretty well the example because standalone exflurry exists) or if it won't launch for a full combo/damage but this would just ease the pain, if you want damage output either you git gud at hitconfirms, reads and other fighting game basics

another one is goro's punchwalk, goro might not be top tier but the tool is still silly

side note, I feel the same about scorpion's cancellable teleport which can be done at multiple distances from the opponent
But without the ability to punchwalk MB on hit Goro would suck ass. He'd be cutting his meter in half having to read a jump out of his tick grab all the time.

Also, MB special means many things when people talk about these moves.
 

shura30

Shura
But without the ability to punchwalk MB on hit Goro would suck ass. He'd be cutting his meter in half having to read a jump out of his tick grab all the time.

Also, MB special means many things when people talk about these moves.
that's why I didn't want to go character specific
because next argument would be the fact that in mkxl character viability for some can be tied to a few tools that should not exist in the first place, at least not in mkxl form and engine

in the specific case you mentioned tho, there's no need to cancel into punchwalk on a read, if you're reading a jump out you can just go and punish that
d1 punchwalk is a silly version of an option select (which I despise even more in fighting games)

also, I always prefer to use a more rigorous terminology to not fall in these misunderstanding so ex <> mb
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
your not a downplayer, you made valid points, someone like me might say that the match is situational depending on who your playing and how the start goes, but none the less nothing downplaying about that post.

you just gotta brush off most of them, someone on TYM is bound to take something the wrong way: or 50 something people see the same word and interpret it 40 different ways. thats TYM.

some may not understand that you are not actuially mad at me, or hating on anyone that you are just expressing your point of view. im not gonna take offense. shit i debate all the time on here as well. ohh on the vortex is 11 Plus enough for a vortex? i see wher eyou are coming from, cuz they have option befor his OH or low would come out, and 11 is not enough so Vortex is not correct and i should have stated Pseudo Vortex! sorry corrected now:) and you are right. just one part i would leave out:) and alls good. not saying you went to far or anything, i was wrong, but i certainly know alien. I just made some typing errors;) tanks id rather you state it in open than others misunderstand me and go off that.


Some times i call certain things vortexs that reallya re not like Sub Zero GM when he sets clone than combos you into it and on wakeup uses either OH or LOw and they have 1-4 frames to armor, not really a vortex but damn hard to counter, basically forces a guess. but yes with prctice they would have options other than block, and i should state when thats possible.
Ok. We're good
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
Who cares

Come October 4th, Alien will become irrelevant with how NRS deals with nerfing.
Sadly that may be true. Due to people not being able to see past salt, Alien will get butchered just like Cyber Sub-Zero, Cyrax, Tanya, Kung Lao, non Crystalline Tremor, Outlaw Erron Black, and soon to be Alien.