What's new

General/Other - Alien Why Tarkatan may be Alien's best variation

GrimJack

Rock paper scissor specialist
If I lose to an Alien it's not because "damn that zoning, it's so hard to get in" it's because of his dominating footsies and offense, which Tarkatan does better. Being able to get off the ground far easier, pressure better, and launch safer is WAAAAAY better than nickel and diming it with small mixups in Acidic to be safe, or "zone" in MKX.
Acidic doesn't need to launch you. He keeps you at his 50/50 range and blast you with the tick acid. As you said, alien has excellent range and acidic just keeps you at that range better than tarkatan.
 
The way I see it, what makes acidic so good is his almost parodoxical design

His zoning requires patience to get through and very slow movement (don't expect to run in on acidic), yet patience is exactly what loses you 20-30% of your health against acidic. You're forced to approach acidic making dangerous reads, and losing lots of health

If there was no run button id say acidic would be better, but run in and press buttons > zoning by far in MKX.
I guarantee you won't be running in on sonicfox as easily as doubletapping forward + r2


As ATP said, I can't see how one could be definitively better than the other, it's based on way too many variables:
Patience of the opposing PLAYER
Mobility of the opposing CHARACTER
Design of opposing character
Luck based on reads (acidic), luck based on guessing mixups (tarkatan)


Also I find it strange that you say Tarkatan has better footsies, as I'd disagree and say there about the same WHILE acidic has better overall spacing because his acid restricts your movement so much
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
I think Sonic Fox is just the best player around. He still tears shit up with Erron Black and Tanya who are nowhere near as good as either of Alien's variations. He could body most of us with variationless Kenshi so that doesn't really matter.

I don't think Tarkatan is a lot better but I do think he is. Acidic has better defense, but Tarkatan has better offense, which tends to win out in MKX. Maybe 3-5% better, but they are on the same level.

It just bothers me when Tarkatan is sometimes tiered an entire tier lower than Acidic or Demoliton or Piercing which is bizarre as hell.
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
Acidic doesn't need to launch you. He keeps you at his 50/50 range and blast you with the tick acid. As you said, alien has excellent range and acidic just keeps you at that range better than tarkatan.
Even Alien can't fully keep you out in this game through zoning. Everyone needs to launch you.
 

Tweedy

Noob
This discussion is pointless because the only people who think that Acidic is this god tier variation in comparison to Tarkatan, are people that just watch and probably don't even have Alien unlocked.

There's that one dude who does have Alien unlocked, but he didn't know about the hotfix changes until a few weeks ago when he brought up Alien being + whatever after acid blood restand and I had to correct him. I have him on ignore and i'm assuming that's who Dankster is talking to in parts of this thread.

Acidic is more unsafe than Wrestler Jax and Master of Souls Ermac, unless you just nickel and dime. The variation is good but not better than Tarkatan.

Remember when Sonic used only Pyromancer instead of Kobu when Tanya released, but everyone knew Kobu was better because he lost to MIT and Reo? I feel like Acidic is the same as Pyro, it just so happens that Sonic is beating the other Alien.
 

Tweedy

Noob
And what's the deal with people posting either acid blood landed at distance, or up high, and saying "lol look noob it's not plus 1".

Okay, but it's +1 at point blank. Why would someone take 22% over 39% in the corner?

I just watched this man land a JUMP IN AND SPEND METER, only to get 21% into blood, in this combo.

Totally optimal bro. lol

Your real mix ups are still not guaranteed. You're still unsafe as all hell. The best option is to always go for max damage into +1 blood, if you get the hit.

People aren't playing the game. They're thinking in a box to prove people wrong on these forums.
 

STRYKIE

Are ya' ready for MK11 kids?!
Acidic's space control and ability to make you fear moving anywhere on screen (jumping gets AA acids, forward movement gets poked, moving back is asking to be chipped out, standing still is death) are what makes me hesitant to say tarkatan is the best.

Also, acid blood isn't only +1 and is height contigent I thought, as there has been plenty of evidence to disprove it. Similar to how Summoner Quan has enough hit advantage to summon a bat to HTB and still be + if he gets trance at max height
Max height trance effectively gives Summoner Quan a safe loopable meterless 50/50 though. Max height acid blood does no such thing lol.
 
This discussion is pointless because the only people who think that Acidic is this god tier variation in comparison to Tarkatan, are people that just watch and probably don't even have Alien unlocked.

There's that one dude who does have Alien unlocked, but he didn't know about the hotfix changes until a few weeks ago when he brought up Alien being + whatever after acid blood restand and I had to correct him. I have him on ignore and i'm assuming that's who Dankster is talking to in parts of this thread.

Acidic is more unsafe than Wrestler Jax and Master of Souls Ermac, unless you just nickel and dime. The variation is good but not better than Tarkatan.

Remember when Sonic used only Pyromancer instead of Kobu when Tanya released, but everyone knew Kobu was better because he lost to MIT and Reo? I feel like Acidic is the same as Pyro, it just so happens that Sonic is beating the other Alien.
I have Alien unlocked, but just don't choose to play such a cheap almost broken bastard.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
I kinda agree but don't downplay OS punishing the gap off Rekka. 12-15%, a knockdown, and your turn back, GUARANTEED (no delays or whatever can stop you) IS a good punish, he'll it's a great punish and completely invalidates it as a pressure tool most of the time. Tarkatan is strong but let's not pretend like the Rekkas are free just because most armor doesn't launch
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
I kinda agree but don't downplay OS punishing the gap off Rekka. 12-15%, a knockdown, and your turn back, GUARANTEED (no delays or whatever can stop you) IS a good punish, he'll it's a great punish and completely invalidates it as a pressure tool most of the time. Tarkatan is strong but let's not pretend like the Rekkas are free just because most armor doesn't launch
They are spending a bar to punish a 50/50. If the opponent has meter and fast armor, Alien should never do anything other than F4 and B3 into rekka
 

Tweedy

Noob
I kinda agree but don't downplay OS punishing the gap off Rekka. 12-15%, a knockdown, and your turn back, GUARANTEED (no delays or whatever can stop you) IS a good punish, he'll it's a great punish and completely invalidates it as a pressure tool most of the time. Tarkatan is strong but let's not pretend like the Rekkas are free just because most armor doesn't launch
Alien's rekkas aren't pressure tools they're 50/50 hit confirmers.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
Alien's rekkas aren't pressure tools they're 50/50 hit confirmers.
.... which is because of the armor OS

the 50/50 confirms was already mentioned in his post

a further point was made in his post explaining that Rekka's aren't so bad, because it costs a bar to punish them. Sure, for the 50/50, it makes it a harder to punish 50/50. For use as pressure they are terrible. Which is mentioned nowhere, and the OP describes Tarkatan as having much better pressure, and it's stated how great rekka's are, so that at the very least needs to be clarified
 

Tweedy

Noob
I just read that staggers (rekkas are essentially staggers) aren't pressure tools

[/QUOTE

You're just ignorant if you think that's incorrect.

People who don't know what they're talking about think that Tanya and Alien have the same rekkas because they're both called rekkas. -15 boys.
 

Tweedy

Noob
That post is super fucked up for some reason and it won't let me edit it ^^^^. Like my post is inside his post.

It's amazing how people who have no idea what they're talking about, that think so narrowly to the point that they post 22% one bar combos off of jump ins in the corner, to prove someone wrong, can sit here and post insulting gifs about my correct assessment.

That's what's wrong with TYM.

Play any top player and stagger rekkas. Have fun with being -15.

TYM is so fucked up that lack of match up knowledge can become the accepted truth. It's awful lol.
 

ATP2014

The best mediocre Batman
Is personally switch Sub-Zero and Lao, but other than that, dead on.
Tarkatan does better because his rekka pressure can actually dodge Sub Zero's EX slide, and Tarkatan can punish B2 from Sub Zero with a standing 2 for a full combo. Acidic will usually just get a d3 punish, especially if clone is out.

I feel Acidic does better vs Lao because he can cancel his pressure into Acid Puddle or Acid Spray, which are both relatively safe. The OH flip, Tail Scoop, and Rekkas can all be punished by Lao pretty consistently. Plus, Acidic zoning is pretty good overall, and you add in Alien's footsies and it's a wrap.
 

UGL Preon

The Casual God
Premium Supporter
A couple perks Tarkatan has is Damage consistency and better range on certain normals. Off the 50/50 you're going to average 35-39% per 1 bar combo. The Rekkas giving some mind games in the pressure game while being the easiest hit conformable thing in the game.

Acidic doesn't really need combos to be a threat with acid forcing an opponent to move. They literally can not turtle. So on your approach to alien b3 and f4's ridiculous range into quick mixes always keeping opponents guessing while giving DoT and safe-ish tailflip. You always feel like you have a time limit when fighting Acidic because while you take chip damage from guessing right, if you're near acid the last thing you want to do is eat a throw. Look at higher level Acidic matches over the past few months, Acidic mains almost never gets more than 25% a combo in a match. And it doesn't have to. Also acid blood and acid tail are both become win conditions in the late game. I don't even have to hit you. Its very loosely acts like caltrops, anti air caltrops, and restand caltrops with better DoT.

When players start taking those ticks you'll see flustered play, jumping around, trying to do anything no matter how unsafe to get out. Currently the Acid on the floor is scary enough make players literally need a diaper cause they start wetting the bed. That and the following situation causes players to melt.

"I blocked the mix but he cancelled into acid blood on block. Time to puni- *alien MB flips*" but if you don't respond and they don't EX flip you're taking another repetition of stuff to block.
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
Tarkatan does better because his rekka pressure can actually dodge Sub Zero's EX slide, and Tarkatan can punish B2 from Sub Zero with a standing 2 for a full combo. Acidic will usually just get a d3 punish, especially if clone is out.

I feel Acidic does better vs Lao because he can cancel his pressure into Acid Puddle or Acid Spray, which are both relatively safe. The OH flip, Tail Scoop, and Rekkas can all be punished by Lao pretty consistently. Plus, Acidic zoning is pretty good overall, and you add in Alien's footsies and it's a wrap.
I respect your opinion
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
the single thing that turneds me off to alien Tarkatan was the DB2 EX was light up like a Christmas tree. and that to mee seemed like, Who the fuck would ever fall for that mixup. so i played with Konjurer. it is really slept on i still feel the majority is left behind.

and if they leave Aliens universal tools in tact, You will all see how god Konjurer really is after Acidic and Tarkatan is toned down and the hords of Tier Whores hope mains.
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
and people STILL believe it's only +1? There's a whole thread dedicated to it and PLENTY of video evidence smh

doesn't everyone know its plus 9 at max hight?On ground its plus 1 and midscreen as long as its not super high, in midscreen i think its plus 4-5. i thought this was a general piece of knowledge. its like no one learned anything from Cassie Cages Nutpunch SMH
 

MadeOfMetal

Kenshi Srubtastic,Cyrax, Special Forces Mains
And there is many more reasons to choose Acidic over Tarkatan Zoning being one of them, Space control being the second and U+3 being a huge one. just the fact that you have U+3 in your toolset allows for so much control its sick. Exo sting is a conditioner that should not be downplayed, and the fact it stacks is not to be taken lightly. yes Tarkatan is safer whoopty do. ill take coverage/Zoning/Space control/corner vortex/ and Restand over Pseudo Safe. Anyday. but how about that Konjurer everyone is sleeping on. its a turn changer and a half IE constant pressure when used right.
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
the single thing that turneds me off to alien Tarkatan was the DB2 EX was light up like a Christmas tree. and that to mee seemed like, Who the fuck would ever fall for that mixup. so i played with Konjurer. it is really slept on i still feel the majority is left behind.

and if they leave Aliens universal tools in tact, You will all see how god Konjurer really is after Acidic and Tarkatan is toned down and the hords of Tier Whores hope mains.
EX DB2 isn't a mix up, lmao, IT IS A FUCKING 9 FRAME ARMORED LAUNCHER which I think goes without saying why it is amazing. Tarkatan can blow up shit Acidic couldn't dream of for a full combo.

Konjurer is for hipsters who are afraid to be called tier whores but still want to play Alien.