General/Other Why so much Smoke hate?

[Jamison]

Every time the match starts I select Smoke and most players back out. Smoke is my main and although he is a solid character I don't feel like he can't be beat. So why all the back outs or the "I wanna fight but NO smoke or scorpion challenges."

 

[Kindred]

Every time the match starts I select Smoke and most players back out. Smoke is my main and although he is a solid character I don't feel like he can't be beat. So why all the back outs or the "I wanna fight but NO smoke or scorpion challenges."

Ermac gets the same flack.
The reason is simple. It's A LOT easier to bitch about a character than to find a strategy to beat him.

 

[McNasty]

online the delay makes certain characters very difficult to face smoke ermac noob raiden.

 

[Abudabi]

really? smoke players are at a all-time low after otg was removed

 

[RedNeckRage]

I find Smoke and Scorpion to be annoying opponents.

I'm playing with relatively slow character (Sektor), so it mostly turn out to be a lurking match between bombs, dash blocks and several jumps mixed with teleports and punishing his mistakes preferably with combo. Heaps of Smoke players are just used to abuse constant bombs, waiting on enemy to jump in order to use teleport punches and throw game in case enemy start to adapt, rather than trying to unleash a combo with Smoke. They focus on punishing enemy mistakes by keeping distance and waiting like a bosses for opportunity to punish with their special. Not saying that it's a bad attitude, everybody want to win, the thing is that's not necessarily most enjoyable fight for the foe. What is more, there are many Smoke players (from my experience at least) and some people might find it annoying to face the same conditions all the time (didn't play with many after the OTG patch though).

For Scorpion players, I feel Scorpion is more of a coin flip character, newbie friendly and not demanding so much practice as the others. Again, many people play Scorpion and spam teleports, infernos etc. to the point it's not enjoyable to face anymore. The feeling grows more with each round, when the enemy doesn't change his attitude and spam even more not trying to change his playstyle at all. Don't see a point playing with such opponent. Remember, there are few optimist who treat 3rd Skorpion player in a row as an opportunity to learn something new. Consider that it's the internet, place of hate and sore sorrow.

About Ermac, there is an opinion of Ermac being Ezmac reffering to the difficulty of playing with the character. Same as the earlier mentioned, he has great and potent tools to punish slightest mistakes, especially online.

 

[Jamison]

online the delay makes certain characters very difficult to face smoke ermac noob raiden.

I understand and yes Noob requires constant pressure or he can punish you online. Although I never back out if someone picks Noob. I understand with any online game certain characters will always have an advantage, but I always feel like that is part of mastering the game, being able to beat or stop these stronger characters. The online environment should be like the old days at the arcade. The new player comes in, you are already in from the last victory, and they select their fighter. There is no option to back out you just have to deal with the new challenge. Maybe it's just me.

 

[SZSR]

People don't adapt, I guess. Smoke's strategy is a waiting game, he doesn't have many tools (or any for that matter) that let him rushdown or effectively zone. If you're Smoke trying to break your opponent's guard, then you're playing him wrong. Of course, it gets boring pretty quickly upon waiting for opponents to make a move, especially when they have the life lead.

 

[GamerBlake90]

Ermac gets the same flack.
The reason is simple. It's A LOT easier to bitch about a character than to find a strategy to beat him.

QFT (Quoted For Truth).

The smart player is not gonna be swayed by whether their strategy is annoying or not. If it works and the opponent is getting frustrated, you are doing something right. If they'd rather not be bothered trying to find ways to counter the character they hate, then they are not true players in even the slightest sense of it. The whole point of fighting games is to build up on your knowledge of who you're playing as, as well as who you're fighting against. The only way you're gonna learn to handle a character better is to keep playing against that character. Just remember: it may not be the character itself you're struggling against, but rather how the player is using that character. For instance, I generally don't have trouble fighting against Shang Tsung, but when I play DetroitBalln313 I'm really pushed to my limits. It is both the character and the player you are battling against.

In regards to Abudabi's post, I couldn't disagree more. Smoke losing his OTG Smoke Bomb after the air throw hardly affected his game. I have played some Smoke players who can still beast incredibly well with him, GAMETIME6193 being one such example from what I remember. There are still ways to use the Smoke Bomb mid-combo even while juggling the target, and besides that it serves as a great way to annoy the opponent from a distance, and also to play mind games. Sometimes they may try to dodge it only to get baited in return. Add that to the other abilities Smoke has and he can be tricky when used right.

 

[Jamison]

Smoke losing his OTG Smoke Bomb after the air throw hardly affected his game

Yes I totally agree really didn't nerf much.

The only way you're gonna learn to handle a character better is to keep playing against that character.

:top:

 

[Sporko]

If I had to wager a guess, and keep in mind that this does not annoy/bother me in anyway, in fact I like smoke quite a bit other than the anime hair, heh.

But anyway, if I had to wager a guess it's because smoke bomb can be used to start bread and butter combos from mid to full screen without the intrinsic unsafe...ness, of other full screen combo starters (mostly punishable teleports).

That would be my *guess*, I don't have anything more solid than that. There are a *lot* of characters that bug me a lot more, personally.

 

[wEEman33]

They are jealous of his long flowing locks.

 

[Jamison]

They are jealous of his long flowing locks.

ofl:

That's the reason I knew I should've used the alternate costume

 

[Sultani]

These are the things that bother me about smoke, but I haven't really gone out of my way to complain about these things... yet.

First, 3, d1, 2 isn't punishable on block.... Actually, none of his strings are.

second, smoke bomb can start a BnB from anywhere on the screen in relative safety aside from getting hit with a teleport.

third, since you can't punish his launch string on block, you can't ever let go of block as soon as he's started it on you.. you can only get hit with it and break it, or keep blocking and get thrown. You cannot jump either direction after blocking it because he'll just teleport or jump kick you / AA. You cannot poke it because yes, it actually hits that too, and even if it didn't, he can still just teleport. Characters with extremely fast teleports or parries are the only ones that can avoid this, which makes the fighting mechanics against him essentially a rock paper scissors fight system rather than balance.

You can never rush him down because his teleport is a wakeup.

Smoke bomb hits other characters' wakeup teleports (mileena). I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he's the only character that can punish a wakeup teleport with a BnB juggle.

He's included in the list of characters that have a three hit repeatable string that's retarded easy and can just keep juggling people by pressing three buttons, and can just keep dialing it in even if it's blocked.

In my opinion, he's one of the lamest, noob characters in the entire game.

If there were such a poll that showed how many 11 year old kids picked up this game and played smoke because of how fast and easy he is to play, I'd bet my house that it would be over 90% of them.

 

[Jamison]

In my opinion, he's one of the lamest, noob characters in the entire game.

:violin:

Well I knew I would find someone.

 

[GamerBlake90]

since you can't punish his launch string on block, you can't ever let go of block as soon as he's started it on you.. you can only get hit with it and break it, or keep blocking and get thrown. You cannot jump either direction after blocking it because he'll just teleport or jump kick you / AA. You cannot poke it because yes, it actually hits that too, and even if it didn't, he can still just teleport. Characters with extremely fast teleports or parries are the only ones that can avoid this, which makes the fighting mechanics against him essentially a rock paper scissors fight system rather than balance.

You can never rush him down because his teleport is a wakeup.

Smoke bomb hits other characters' wakeup teleports (mileena). I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he's the only character that can punish a wakeup teleport with a BnB juggle.

He's included in the list of characters that have a three hit repeatable string that's retarded easy and can just keep juggling people by pressing three buttons, and can just keep dialing it in even if it's blocked.

In my opinion, he's one of the lamest, noob characters in the entire game.

If there were such a poll that showed how many 11 year old kids picked up this game and played smoke because of how fast and easy he is to play, I'd bet my house that it would be over 90% of them.

To the bolded statement, I respond with this:

A wake-up that you can still block and punish as long as you are careful. So you can still rush it, just be smart about it.

Also, you can still low-poke Smoke with a d1 and get out of the 3 to d1 to 2 string AFTER he finishes it, not during it. Then you can gain yourself an advantage. And if all you do is block against him, you will eat a throw, but which would you prefer: throws or combos? Which does less damage? You decide.

Considering that Smoke has no low hits that can break through a target blocking high (except for the leg sweep), I'd say his combat mechanics make him tougher to use, not easier. Yes, his Smoke Ball can punish wake-up attacks, but this just simply means the opponent will have to change up his game and NOT use wake-ups if they know they'll get bombarded with Smoke Balls.

As for getting punished in the air by his teleports, air throws, or Smoke Balls...it just means you'll have to limit your jumping against him. There's not always a guarantee that you'll get hit by such attacks, especially if you're playing either as Smoke or a character with teleports of his or her own.

 

[G4S KT]

These are the things that bother me about smoke, but I haven't really gone out of my way to complain about these things... yet.

First, 3, d1, 2 isn't punishable on block.... Actually, none of his strings are.

second, smoke bomb can start a BnB from anywhere on the screen in relative safety aside from getting hit with a teleport.

third, since you can't punish his launch string on block, you can't ever let go of block as soon as he's started it on you.. you can only get hit with it and break it, or keep blocking and get thrown. You cannot jump either direction after blocking it because he'll just teleport or jump kick you / AA. You cannot poke it because yes, it actually hits that too, and even if it didn't, he can still just teleport. Characters with extremely fast teleports or parries are the only ones that can avoid this, which makes the fighting mechanics against him essentially a rock paper scissors fight system rather than balance.

You can never rush him down because his teleport is a wakeup.

Smoke bomb hits other characters' wakeup teleports (mileena). I could be wrong, but I'm pretty sure he's the only character that can punish a wakeup teleport with a BnB juggle.

He's included in the list of characters that have a three hit repeatable string that's retarded easy and can just keep juggling people by pressing three buttons, and can just keep dialing it in even if it's blocked.

In my opinion, he's one of the lamest, noob characters in the entire game.

If there were such a poll that showed how many 11 year old kids picked up this game and played smoke because of how fast and easy he is to play, I'd bet my house that it would be over 90% of them.

I can't understand this frame of mind. I really can't.

GamerBlake90 said most of the things that I would have said, so I'll leave it at that.

 

[Jamison]

Considering that Smoke has no low hits that can break through a target blocking high (except for the leg sweep), I'd say his combat mechanics make him tougher to use, not easier.

I agree totally. When I am playing someone that is a good player with whatever character they use it becomes very difficult to get anything in on them. It then becomes a mix up game and by far more challenging.

 

[Gadget]

People don't adapt, I guess. Smoke's strategy is a waiting game, he doesn't have many tools (or any for that matter) that let him rushdown or effectively zone.

I actually find Smoke's rushdown to be one of his strong points. His zoning is ok, but if an opponent calls out a smokeball they can possibly punish it even from fullscreen (e.g. Reptile). In my experience, you toss a ball or two, they start looking to get in. At this point, they walk into jump range, and now you have to switch to a guessing game into rushdown. Options at this point are to jump at them, dash sweep, dash b2,3, dash 3,d1,2, dash f4, or smokedash towards. That is a lot of options, with different responses required for most.

Dash f4 is especially nice, because if they block it (or not) and you buffer in smokedash forward, it puts you right behind them, allowing for another mixup right there of string or crossup jump. If you haven't tried it yet cause you don't play Smoke, go to training mode and hold up during smokedash to see when it actually recovers, it's deceptive, and knowing the real timing helps fight against it.

His strings are really good and provide easy combos on hit, however they are not perfect. For one, he has no low save sweep, so no need to block low really. Also, though not punishable on block you have options against all his possible follow-ups. If he tries to mash out another string, you can at the very least d1 him out of it. If he tries to jump over you, you can njp him for a sizable combo. This makes it so he needs to mixup when he ends his strings and try to fake out jumps with invisibilty or smokedash.

I hope the offer some insight on how to fight him for those having trouble. No it's not easy necessarily, but if it was how would he be any good. And to fellow Smokes, I hope you don't feel betrayed, I just want to dispel some of the illusions of scrubbiness around our main man.

 

[Kakita Jamie]

Just blind pick smoke. It solves that issue fast.

 

[Jamison]

I actually find Smoke's rushdown to be one of his strong points.

Yes I agree and I believe this is the real reason people hate Smoke. Constant pressure leaves little room for them to be on the offensive, leaving their game to blocking high the whole time.

 

[ultrasimmons]

Online, I can see why people would have an issue with Smoke if lag is noticeable.

His rushdown is rarely used to what it can be though, which takes out most of the promise for an interesting fight. Most of the Smoke kids end up blindly throwing teleports and Smoke bombs the whole time, which could be why people look down on him.

 

[ZeroEffect]

You sure they're backing out or are they getting desynched?

 

[Vilén]

^ The eternal question.

Anyway, if they're legit backing out on you for picking Smoke, it's probably because they still haven't realized that air throw~check them with smoke bomb xN is not an infinite loop.

 

[aboothlsu]

I personally love when someone picks smoke. 99% of the time it will either be smoke bomb spam that just leads to me dash blocking in for free jump in combos, or me constantly punishing random teleports, ex teleports and wake up teleports. The nubs never learn that move is blockable.

 

[chessmaster]

people are sick of facing scorpion and smoke.