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Match-Up Discussion - Erron Black Why Erron Black Fails and Bleeds with a nerf

iLLmAtiCx

Hellfire
21122 ex sand grenade is still a true blockstring. Cancelling into anything that wasnt the last hit of 21122 has always been armorable which you continuously did in the video.

that is also some serious downplaying of sos3. That does ridiculous chip, can armor break some moves on oki as well or even off 21122xxsos3. It has the gap, but its necessary since its a pretty solid move.

Lastly, you act like every Kano player will be stuffing your d4 with low parry. You're in a controlled enviroment, so unless you become ridiculously predictable with d4s, it won't happen all the time as shown in the video. I can see the 21122 whiff parry, but you shouldn't just throw it out without proper spacing.

Erron is without a doubt worse off with those beta changes, but this has downplaying written all over it.
That isn't only for down 4s Erron's wakeup slide which I do not use often (online players do) is a low. This is an easy read on most I am not talking about me in particular. If you truly believe this is downplaying have you played this matchup back offline? Even within the coming buffs and nerfs have you genuinely tried to adapt to this scenario having seen all the gaps above? I've switched off and played both Kano and Erron and have won plenty with Erron but it wasn't through pressure. It was only in the rare 50/50 I caught him (My brother is a Raiden main completely unrelated but shows where experience lies.) With these coming nerfs to Erron and Buffs to kano you truly believe this is downplay?
 

iLLmAtiCx

Hellfire
That isn't only for down 4s Erron's wakeup slide which I do not use often (online players do) is a low. This is an easy read on most I am not talking about me in particular. If you truly believe this is downplaying have you played this matchup back offline? Even within the coming buffs and nerfs have you genuinely tried to adapt to this scenario having seen all the gaps above? I've switched off and played both Kano and Erron and have won plenty with Erron but it wasn't through pressure. It was only in the rare 50/50 I caught him (My brother is a Raiden main completely unrelated but shows where experience lies.) With these coming nerfs to Erron and Buffs to kano you truly believe this is downplay?
Downplay is saying that Ferra/Torr is not now absolutely ridiculous. Biohazard has these tournaments in his pocket
 

iLLmAtiCx

Hellfire
21122 ex sand grenade is still a true blockstring. Cancelling into anything that wasnt the last hit of 21122 has always been armorable which you continuously did in the video.

that is also some serious downplaying of sos3. That does ridiculous chip, can armor break some moves on oki as well or even off 21122xxsos3. It has the gap, but its necessary since its a pretty solid move.

Lastly, you act like every Kano player will be stuffing your d4 with low parry. You're in a controlled enviroment, so unless you become ridiculously predictable with d4s, it won't happen all the time as shown in the video. I can see the 21122 whiff parry, but you shouldn't just throw it out without proper spacing.

Erron is without a doubt worse off with those beta changes, but this has downplaying written all over it.
21122 Ex sand is not a true blockstring waiting until 21122 is over then using Ex sand isn't even a string its just a surprise
 

cambros22

Stand Back I'm a Doctor!!!!!!
Your words

Let me ask you this haha and it will make it clear how annoying it is to face people as Erron Black without 21122. Have you ever tried anti airing then doing one of Erron slow start up fifty fifties on a kitana or kung jin or Tanya or takeda that just keep jumping and NJPing you? you have no spacing without that string and it leaves you right in front of them to be NJPd again. Just try getting a forward 1 3 without it. Your skin will start to burn
Takeda and Tanya for sure cause him great pain in those matchups
 

cambros22

Stand Back I'm a Doctor!!!!!!
211
21122 Ex sand is not a true blockstring waiting until 21122 is over then using Ex sand isn't even a string its just a surprise
You must not be using 21122 close sandgrenade
Its a given that everyone knows to use close to jail with that string
 

cambros22

Stand Back I'm a Doctor!!!!!!
You can see the buttons I am pressing in the video, I did that intentionally. I am using close grenade.
you didnt use 21122
you used 211 and 2112

he can cancel this string at 211, 2112 and 21122.
go in training and check yourself

21122 ex sg
 

HeroesNZ

Baconlord's Billionaire Sugar Daddy
Also no offence but that video is awful and I have no idea what the message that you're trying to get across from it is. I mean most of it was universal stuff that everyone can do against Erron and the rest was just you showing that Kano's parries are functioning correctly and a mini-combo showcase at the end.
 

iLLmAtiCx

Hellfire
you didnt use 21122
you used 211 and 2112

he can cancel this string at 211, 2112 and 21122.
go in training and check yourself

21122 ex sg
211 sand isn't a string they can block between the pause and the grenade. I can assure you however its the same result I am doing it right now
 

iLLmAtiCx

Hellfire
Also no offence but that video is awful and I have no idea what the message that you're trying to get across from it is. I mean most of it was universal stuff that everyone can do against Erron and the rest was just you showing that Kano's parries are functioning correctly and a mini-combo showcase at the end.
Its showing gaps and was a video I took some time putting together yes low quality but you can't necessarily render things easily here can you so I would appreciate you taking the information for what it is and critiquing that rather than the video itself. The information is all valid however and very demonstrative and to the point so I'm going to have to disagree with you here and ask that some people that actually want to contribute to this conversation actually contribute instead of the same three overreactions I keep experiencing.
 

Bomborge

Aspiring scrub
That isn't only for down 4s Erron's wakeup slide which I do not use often (online players do) is a low. This is an easy read on most I am not talking about me in particular. If you truly believe this is downplaying have you played this matchup back offline? Even within the coming buffs and nerfs have you genuinely tried to adapt to this scenario having seen all the gaps above? I've switched off and played both Kano and Erron and have won plenty with Erron but it wasn't through pressure. It was only in the rare 50/50 I caught him (My brother is a Raiden main completely unrelated but shows where experience lies.) With these coming nerfs to Erron and Buffs to kano you truly believe this is downplay?
No ones played the matchup. Changes aren't in effect yet so I don't see your point. I have plenty, do well enough as it stands. Also, using a regular training partner as a way to get a point across of the rare 50/50s is a fairly weak point considering he will know your tendencies. I do believe it is downplay, he will get worse if the changes stick, but you are exaggerating how bad it actually is.


21122 Ex sand is not a true blockstring waiting until 21122 is over then using Ex sand isn't even a string its just a surprise
I can't take you seriously after this. Go back into the lab and test out 21122 xx ex sand grenade. Cancel into sand grenade after the 5th hit.
 

iLLmAtiCx

Hellfire
You must be trolling so im done with this discussion
I don't know what to tell you man I am sitting right here doing it I can still armor through it. I'm going to clock out as well enjoy the video and information for what it is but I can't take the insincerity this discussion has devolved to.
 

Sage Leviathan

I'm platinum mad!
I don't know what to tell you man I am sitting right here doing it I can still armor through it. I'm going to clock out as well enjoy the video and information for what it is but I can't take the insincerity this discussion has devolved to.
I'm not saying this in a terribly mad way, or with frustration,

but most everything you've put forward in this thread is insane. In fact, most of your posts make me cringe.
 

iLLmAtiCx

Hellfire
I'm not saying this in a terribly mad way, or with frustration,

but most everything you've put forward in this thread is insane. In fact, most of your posts make me cringe.
No shit that's because no one can stay on the same topic as me and take something so simple and think I hate everything about Erron after that. Just what happens man people think you're upset and they stop listening.
 

iLLmAtiCx

Hellfire
No shit that's because no one can stay on the same topic as me and take something so simple and think I hate everything about Erron after that. Just what happens man people think you're upset and they stop listening.
It has devolved into do you sir know what an 50/50 is? hmm? well do you? No one has actually talked about the actual matchup just quizzing me on Erron.
 

InFlames

dead
Beta Erron is still a decent character but comparing him to the rest of the cast who either got buffed or slightly nerfed he could actually be the worst now
 

Tweedy

Noob
Sir not trying to be condescending I see what string you are talking about B32 U1. That is not a 50/50 that is a low and a mid which leaves you incredibly negative on block. This is not a true block string either is what I meant. As in go test it calm yourself.
The reason I pointed this out is because it has no gap when combo'd with the EX sand grenade, so your point about B33 having a gap is irrelevant.

How is it not a 50/50. You don't need mix ups within your strings for it to be a 50/50s, things like that aren't really mix ups. However, if you have moves like F1(overhead launcher) and B3(low launcher) in your arsenal, then you have 50/50s.

Edit: The launchers also need to be close enough together and fast enough to not be fuzzy guarded/reacted to. Erron's got true 50/50s.

Again, yes you were trying to be condescending. You told me to go to practice mode before I post about a character. I was right, and even if I weren't, you don't know if I just made a typo or not. You also don't know how much I know. You were totally out of line bruh.
 

21122

Noob
Pray my fellow Erron players that Paulo addressed what was done to our cowboy tomorrow in the balance patch.

I been playing the beta a lot and Outlaw seems to be hit the hardest with these retarded nerfs.
 
Pray my fellow Erron players that Paulo addressed what was done to our cowboy tomorrow in the balance patch.

I been playing the beta a lot and Outlaw seems to be hit the hardest with these (soap bar in my mouth) nerfs.
Yeah, I've been struggling pretty hard with Outlaw. He's so limited in options, and there are only so many ways that you can use ex sand before it becomes predictable.