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Why don't you play Tekken?

Crathen

Death is my business
why is the crush system dumb? Doesn't that system make it the most realistic in terms of actual fighting?
Because it's a big fuck you to frame advantage , you can be +7 and still have to kinda respect the options of low crush / high crush , moves like Lars uf3 go under a good amount of "mids" and such , it wouldn't be as bad if those were more punishable but hey who cares about -13 / 14 until you get launched , the rewards usually are a juggle or a wallsplat so it screws up risk reward in most cases.
 

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
Because it's a big fuck you to frame advantage , you can be +7 and still have to kinda respect the options of low crush / high crush , moves like Lars uf3 go under a good amount of "mids" and such , it wouldn't be as bad if those were more punishable but hey who cares about -13 / 14 until you get launched , the rewards usually are a juggle or a wallsplat so it screws up risk reward in most cases.
lol its just another layer of conditioning you have to apply.

I think mids getting crushed are dumb though. I will not argue that point at all.

but i mean.... if you're +4 and throw out a high jab..... and i throw out a CH launching sweep.... it PHYSICALLY makes sense. IDK... I don't find it dumb in principle.
Some of the application is a tad off (mids being crushed) but to me at least... it makes sense.
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Because it's a big fuck you to frame advantage , you can be +7 and still have to kinda respect the options of low crush / high crush , moves like Lars uf3 go under a good amount of "mids" and such , it wouldn't be as bad if those were more punishable but hey who cares about -13 / 14 until you get launched , the rewards usually are a juggle or a wallsplat so it screws up risk reward in most cases.
In Injustice a backdash is a big fuck you to frame advantage too.
So are some forms of armour in other games too.
 

Crathen

Death is my business
In Injustice a backdash is a big fuck you to frame advantage too.
So are some forms of armour in other games too.
I don't think the crush system is bad itself , it's the risk reward in some moves that don't make sense , there are still other ways to mitigate the frame advantage game such as sidesteps / backdashes and stances even parries , thing is when you go for a 20 dmg quick low wich probably is -14 on block and instead you get launched for 90+ dmg by a 15 frame mid -14 on block it gets a bit crazy , in SF / Injustice you don't necessarely get launched by a backdash , you get out of pressure ( yes at times you can launch some whiffed shit , thats ok with me ).
 

Skkra

PSN: Skkra
Like Slips just mentioned, some stuff, like hopkicks, are kinda dumb.

With my Lili, I can throw out a hopkick, juggle you to the wall for massive damage, and unless you tag crash out, get a 50-50 at the wall worth even more. Probably 75% of your life. If you block my hopkick, you get... well, it sure ain't that!
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Like Slips just mentioned, some stuff, like hopkicks, are kinda dumb.

With my Lili, I can throw out a hopkick, juggle you to the wall for massive damage, and unless you tag crash out, get a 50-50 at the wall worth even more. Probably 75% of your life. If you block my hopkick, you get... well, it sure ain't that!
Thats all dependent on your style as a player then I guess. I rarely get hopkicked in Tekken cause I play like the ultimate turtle. Hopkicks usually end up getting F2'd :p
 

A F0xy Grampa

Problem X Promotions
Let me guess, wave dashing? Come on dude seriously
If theres 1 thing I notice about tekken, its that the player with the better movement generally wins.
I dont play a wavedash character, I play Kazamas, I live and die by whiff punishment.

The moment in tekken is nowhere near bad, its very specific IMO.
 

MagicMan357

"130 ms is more legit than Labbing" - TYM
If theres 1 thing I notice about tekken, its that the player with the better movement generally wins.
I dont play a wavedash character, I play Kazamas, I live and die by whiff punishment.

The moment in tekken is nowhere near bad, its very specific IMO.
OK ill give you that, i do like whiff punishing in tekken i cant lie
 
No, MK9 was naturally unbalanced, yet there was only 1 Kenshi, 1 Kabal and 1 Kung Lao player in the US during its lifetime.

If you look at the best tekken players you'll see a tonne of diversity. Watch 'Help me' for example, he can play with everyone and win with everyone. USA is not a good community to evaluate tekken on if you want to see it in its highest form.

Also, you didnt give me any reasons why Bob and Law are 'broken'. Like I said before, neither of them have anything special about them, and neither of them have anything too terrible about them either.
You're right, there's nothing special about Law or Bob. That's my main issue with Tekken's balance.

You have punches, kicks, and throws. There's a lack of meta-game changing moves that make match ups especially unique. Top tier characters in Tekken aren't like top tier characters in most other games, where they could possibly have bad match ups against weaker characters. At least for the most part, Tekken has a strict hierarchy. You can closely guess a MU number between two characters just by looking at their comparative position in the tiers.

There's not much counter-picking in Tekken, much less than any other fighting game I've played at least. It's indicative of the tier-based match ups. That's what makes Bob and Law a problem.

You can get around it, of course, if you have an in-depth knowledge of the massive moves list of the morbidly-obsese character roster, that would you to take a mid or low tier character such as the bears to great heights, but that's a ridiculous requirement and the reason why as you stated Tekken has character diversity in Japan- only there can you commonly find the crazy amount of life-long Tekken experience you need to excel with a low-tier character.
 
So what i got out of this thread is that tekken is amazing, technically one of the greatest fighters of all time, but some people just think its too hard or boring.
 

Slips

Feared by dragons. Desired by virgins.
So what i got out of this thread is that tekken is amazing, technically one of the greatest fighters of all time, but some people just think its too hard or boring.

It takes skill yes, but I don't think people have a problem learning the skill of the game, its hard because there are 50 characters and each one has 300 moves with shenanigan lows and setups that you have to learn. That isn't hard, it's just tedious as hell. And yes, it is boring. I think those alone are pretty good reasons for it not being amazing. As well as other reasons that was mentioned in this thread previously that was left out.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
It takes skill yes, but I don't think people have a problem learning the skill of the game, its hard because there are 50 characters and each one has 300 moves with shenanigan lows and setups that you have to learn. That isn't hard, it's just tedious as hell. And yes, it is boring. I think those alone are pretty good reasons for it not being amazing. As well as other reasons that was mentioned in this thread previously that was left out.
Namco ought to create categories for each move (i.e., pokes, launchers, bind moves, combo fillers, combo enders, etc.). It would help new players.
 

~NAKM~

Tekken, SF4: AE, BB: CP, and Persona 4: Arena
I don't understand the "too many moves" thing. You guys have to realize no good player will do 90, 80, 70, 60, 50, or even less % of their characters move list. They'll stick to what works, what's safe, what punishes well, etc, etc, etc. I'll be damned if I play someone who loves to make use of something like Kazuya's B+1+4 or Bryan's D/F+3 on a regular basis. 0_o
 

Swindle

Philanthropist & Asshole
It's boring to watch, has lame feuds and personalities, the art and gameplay is stale, requires too much legacy knowledge, no one good plays here and it's basically impossible to become the best in America anyway.
Agreed, but you left out its 0% fun factor. Tekken is the least fun I have ever had playing a game. And I own PepsiMan.
 

THTB

RIP Arez & Booya
I don't understand the "too many moves" thing. You guys have to realize no good player will do 90, 80, 70, 60, 50, or even less % of their characters move list. They'll stick to what works, what's safe, what punishes well, etc, etc, etc. I'll be damned if I play someone who loves to make use of something like Kazuya's B+1+4 or Bryan's D/F+3 on a regular basis. 0_o
Of course not, but it's very easy to get randomed out by one of those unused moves if you don't at least have experience dealing with it. Regardless of whether a good player will use it at all, there's some random person that will, and even a good player may randomly use something like that to throw you off.
 
Another thing is, I think a lot of people do like tekken, but they prefer the older tekkens so they don't really want to be playing a game that is worse than their older versions.
 

TheBoyBlunder

They love my Grayson
I personally love the game, I'm horrible at it but in terms of realism of combat(mixed martial arts, boxing, wrestling, tkd) put into video games, Tekken is by far the most realistic if you don't include UFC and Fight Night. I'm looking to pick up the game in January to play next to Injustice.
 

Crathen

Death is my business
Recent Italian tournament footage , u can just see how wacky collisions and evading moves make this game inconsistent , some shit doesn't make sense at all but it works , TTT2 yo.