Why do we get attacked for calling for nerfs?

[Tweedy]

What lol. I'm saying you're a great player but didnt lose just because of being mixed lol. I stay supporting you and defending your skill to people. You don't always have to be defensive man.

One of your biggest points in your post, is that since my superman was giving the great Sonicfox problems, it doesn't bode well for deadshot. I'm not defensive at all.

Btw Sonic doesn't only play deadshot and I lab that mu hard. If he only used deadshot and didn't spread himself around for other match ups, I would probably struggle more.

 

[SaltShaker]

One of your biggest points in your post, is that since my superman was giving the great Sonicfox problems, it doesn't bode well for deadshot. I'm not defensive at all.

Btw Sonic doesn't only play deadshot and I lab that mu hard. If he only used deadshot and didn't spread himself around for other match ups, I would probably struggle more.

I meant it in reverse. That if you were giving him problems in a MU that doesn't seem that great, imagine how non Sonic level Deadshot's will hold up in the long run.. Not the way you took it lol. Just think the overused broken term should be reserved for the MMHs and Kabal's, and I don't think there's anyone like that in Inj2.

Yea I could tell you knew the MU from the play. It isn't that good for Supes I think though. That's a good point though because dude has like 3-4 characters that all cover each other, so even if you switch you'll still end up in a disadvantage MU.

 

[Somea2V]

If they are overpowered and need nerfs though, is it the players fault that NRS works with a jackhammer instead of a chisel

Probably not the players' fault, but it should make the players start asking questions about why, after a couple of decades of making fighting games, NRS still has no clue about game balance and QA. Admittedly, I2 is miles ahead of MK9, IGAU and MKX, but still.

 

[Tweedy]

I meant it in reverse. That if you were giving him problems in a MU that doesn't seem that great, imagine how non Sonic level Deadshot's will hold up in the long run.. Not the way you took it lol. Just think the overused broken term should be reserved for the MMHs and Kabal's, and I don't think there's anyone like that in Inj2.

Yea I could tell you knew the MU from the play. It isn't that good for Supes I think though. That's a good point though because dude has like 3-4 characters that all cover each other, so even if you switch you'll still end up in a disadvantage MU.

I don't think deadshot is broken.

 

[SaltShaker]

I don't think deadshot is broken.

Yea he's just strong, and dumb lol. But quite a few are.

 

[Daemantalo]

I don't think deadshot is broken.

What's your opinion about how he should be balanced? If you do not mind sharing. I too feel he should be adjusted, but not by his guns.

 

[God Confirm]

Probably not the players' fault, but it should make the players start asking questions about why, after a couple of decades of making fighting games, NRS still has no clue about game balance and QA. Admittedly, I2 is miles ahead of MK9, IGAU and MKX, but still.

theres two answers

laziness or incompetence

they are getting better at least tho, but you mentioned that

 

[Tweedy]

What's your opinion about how he should be balanced? If you do not mind sharing. I too feel he should be adjusted, but not by his guns.

I don't think anyone should be adjusted until maybe after KIT which is in January.

I hate patches lol.

 

[Daemantalo]

I don't think anyone should be adjusted until maybe after KIT which is in January.

I hate patches lol.

Fair enough, sir.

 

[Somea2V]

Just to weigh in, I don't think Dead-ass (love CC's nickname for him) is broken. He is definitely strong, but in the matches I've played against him I've lost because of mistakes I made. I definitely have to play slower and more patiently against Deadhead, but that's how you have to fight zoners. I would caution calling him broken because of that experience. If I, a lowly online warrior, can admit my mistakes when playing the match up, then it isn't something that seems horribly OP.

This being said, I'm not saying Deady definitely does or does not need nerfs but there is lab work to still be done. That's just how I get to that conclusion that people seem to take exception with.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Because 3 days is not enough to get a grasp on an entirely new game. The Alien example isn't a very good one because when Alien was out, we already knew how MKX worked. In Injustice 2 we have to get used to new mechanics like MB roll, and more than 4 added characters you'd see in a DLC pack. Also, if you're coming off of MKX like I am, it's very hard to adjust to Injustice 2 which takes at the very least a week.

i seem to be jumping back and forth between MKX and injustice 2 just fine , but carry on

 

[God Confirm]

Because 3 days is not enough to get a grasp on an entirely new game. The Alien example isn't a very good one because when Alien was out, we already knew how MKX worked. In Injustice 2 we have to get used to new mechanics like MB roll, and more than 4 added characters you'd see in a DLC pack. Also, if you're coming off of MKX like I am, it's very hard to adjust to Injustice 2 which takes at the very least a week.

kung jin was a pretty good example. MKX was vastly different o MK9 and IGAU, and before it was released everyone was saying Kung Jin was going to be broken, and first week everyone was saying he was broken. And they were absolutely right. Deadshot is looking like this game's KJ. No character is unbeatable, but Deadshot has a large advantage over the average power level of the game

 

[Roy Arkon]

Probably not the players' fault, but it should make the players start asking questions about why, after a couple of decades of making fighting games, NRS still has no clue about game balance and QA. Admittedly, I2 is miles ahead of MK9, IGAU and MKX, but still.

Because they are getting better and they know how to balance the games, but the balance isn't gonna be perfect from the get go, and that is true for every fighting game from every company: Capcom, Aksys, Namco etc; You just put it all on NRS to justify your loses, but every company suffers from this issue of early balance issues in their new games.

So instead of this........

Just to weigh in, I don't think Dead-ass (love CC's nickname for him) is broken. He is definitely strong, but in the matches I've played against him I've lost because of mistakes I made. I definitely have to play slower and more patiently against Deadhead, but that's how you have to fight zoners. I would caution calling him broken because of that experience. If I, a lowly online warrior, can admit my mistakes when playing the match up, then it isn't something that seems horribly OP.

This being said, I'm not saying Deady definitely does or does not need nerfs but there is lab work to still be done. That's just how I get to that conclusion that people seem to take exception with.

...... This.

 

[Somea2V]

Because they are getting better and they know how to balance the games, but the balance isn't gonna be perfect from the get go, and that is true for every fighting game from every company: Capcom, Aksys, Namco etc; You just put it all on NRS to justify your loses, but every company suffers from this issue of early balance issues in their new games.

So instead of this........



...... This.

I feel like you may have misunderstood that first comment partially. Yes, balance is never perfect and regardless of how I may rag down upon NRS (which admittedly I do take too much joy in) I don't blame them for my losses. My mindset resides in that second post. Even in situations that could be argued as truly broken, OP or lopsided match ups, I will spend far more time than is probably needed trying to figure out a way around something that's beating me and advise others to do the same.

I give NRS trouble because they make some truly laughable decisions that company as old as them shouldn't still be making. The fact MKX existed for a year and a half as an unbalanced mess and then was patched to be somewhat balanced begs so many serious questions as to what is going on with their management. I mean, KI is my other main FG squeeze and IG, a much younger company, actually manages to balance their games and do worthwhile QA on their own time instead of releasing a mess to the public and fixing it later. IG has made some mistakes but they've proven far more consistent in two years of KI than a twenty+ year old company has in the past eight years of modern FG entries.

I2 is a great step forward, in my opinion, but NRS doesn't exactly have an inspiring track record.

 

[Roy Arkon]

I feel like you may have misunderstood that first comment partially. Yes, balance is never perfect and regardless of how I may rag down upon NRS (which admittedly I do take too much joy in) I don't blame them for my losses. My mindset resides in that second post. Even in situations that could be argued as truly broken, OP or lopsided match ups, I will spend far more time than is probably needed trying to figure out a way around something that's beating me and advise others to do the same.

I give NRS trouble because they make some truly laughable decisions that company as old as them shouldn't still be making. The fact MKX existed for a year and a half as an unbalanced mess and then was patched to be somewhat balanced begs so many serious questions as to what is going on with their management. I mean, KI is my other main FG squeeze and IG, a much younger company, actually manages to balance their games and do worthwhile QA on their own time instead of releasing a mess to the public and fixing it later. IG has made some mistakes but they've proven far more consistent in two years of KI than a twenty+ year old company has in the past eight years of modern FG entries.

I2 is a great step forward, in my opinion, but NRS doesn't exactly have an inspiring track record.

Ok first off, QA has nothing to with balance, at least not directly. QA is more about bugs and general functions in softwares. That job is for the fighting/gameplay part of the dev team, not the QA. Secondly, MKX was never unbalanced, people just complained about everything from the start, which is what they did with both MK9 and IJ1, and now with IJ2 as well, instead of going into the lab before they complain. Even if something is OP, at least give it time before they patch it out. And like I said, every other company does that stuff, and in the case like SF2, which @Shaka brought an example of, people had to deal with really OP stuff in that game that is now 26 years old and yet people don't complain, but now, Capcom, the so-called all mighty god of fighting game companies, also gets complains from people about SF5, and not just in the casual department, but also in the gameplay and competitive ones, and even in the general function one (like with the airplane stage that gave some people motion sickness). Hell they even put a rootkit in the PC version of SF5 and they had to take it out. You didn't see anything like that in the PC version of any NRS game, and these ports were ported by High Voltage Studios, rather then being developed by NRS like the console version of their games.

But at least when it comes to the gameplay or balance, people can't complain about the game without checking stuff in the lab, yet they do it even for SF5.

Every company is gonna make mistakes sometimes, but they know how to do their job way better then almost all of us, if not all of us. Coding a game and balancing a game is a lot more difficult then it seems, but let me tell you, it is very hard. I worked in QA in the past, and I know first hand that QA and developing softwares is hard, and it's also true for balancing games from any genre, including fighting games.

I'm not saying the Iron Galaxy is a bad company, but they aren't better then NRS, it's more likely that the gameplay and style of KI is more suitable to you, which is fine, but you can't put the blame on NRS. I wanted to play UMVC3 competitively and I dropped the game because I couldn't handle the speed and long combos in it. Did I made compliment threads on MVC forums begging Capcom to reduce the combos and speed for it? No, I just went back to MK9, because I would rather spend the time on the game that I love and can play from a company that I love, rather then ruin other games for everyone else who can enjoy them.

So at the end of the day, NRS are doing a great job and only improving with each game in every regard, and they actually do listen to complaints from fans, and if it is truly a problem, they will fix it, which is more then can I say about other companies (cough* Capcom). But you also need to know WHEN is the right time to complain, and DO NOT DO IT JUST FOR AMUSEMENT, because that is just wrong.

 

[RikoLaw]

because other games have infinites and people still compete

 

[Roy Arkon]

because other games have infinites and people still compete

The infinite with Gorilla Grodd was found before the game was officially released. Are any other infinites that were discovered after the game was officially out?

 

[RikoLaw]

The infinite with Gorilla Grodd was found before the game was officially released. Are any other infinites that were discovered after the game was officially out?

NRS don't like to keep INFs in, Capcom and anime games keep theirs

 

[Roy Arkon]

NRS don't like to keep INFs in, Capcom and anime games keep theirs

I guess that means the answer for my question is a no. OK then.

 

[Spoobs]

Most of the people who complain play the game casually and will only play the game for a few months. Meanwhile, dedicated NRS players who play their games for its whole cycle get left with a few viable characters. Try finding things around annoying characters before calling for a nerf. And it's not like those who defend against nerfs are all just Deadshot players. I play Scarecrow. That match is hellish, but I am still doing my best to find ways around it.

 

[FlappyDaniel]

The problem is when people bitch about things that aren't blatantly truly BROKEN, but just difficult to deal with. Games age and how you play your character/race/whatever evolves as well. Having Played starcraft for 10+ years without a single patch taught that mentality. Obviously there is difference between RTS and Fighting game, but still.

 

[Shaka]

The infinite with Gorilla Grodd was found before the game was officially released. Are any other infinites that were discovered after the game was officially out?

Only is not an infinite lol.

 

[Somea2V]

Ok first off, QA has nothing to with balance, at least not directly. QA is more about bugs and general functions in softwares. That job is for the fighting/gameplay part of the dev team, not the QA. Secondly, MKX was never unbalanced, people just complained about everything from the start, which is what they did with both MK9 and IJ1, and now with IJ2 as well, instead of going into the lab before they complain. Even if something is OP, at least give it time before they patch it out. And like I said, every other company does that stuff, and in the case like SF2, which @Shaka brought an example of, people had to deal with really OP stuff in that game that is now 26 years old and yet people don't complain, but now, Capcom, the so-called all mighty god of fighting game companies, also gets complains from people about SF5, and not just in the casual department, but also in the gameplay and competitive ones, and even in the general function one (like with the airplane stage that gave some people motion sickness). Hell they even put a rootkit in the PC version of SF5 and they had to take it out. You didn't see anything like that in the PC version of any NRS game, and these ports were ported by High Voltage Studios, rather then being developed by NRS like the console version of their games.

But at least when it comes to the gameplay or balance, people can't complain about the game without checking stuff in the lab, yet they do it even for SF5.

Every company is gonna make mistakes sometimes, but they know how to do their job way better then almost all of us, if not all of us. Coding a game and balancing a game is a lot more difficult then it seems, but let me tell you, it is very hard. I worked in QA in the past, and I know first hand that QA and developing softwares is hard, and it's also true for balancing games from any genre, including fighting games.

I'm not saying the Iron Galaxy is a bad company, but they aren't better then NRS, it's more likely that the gameplay and style of KI is more suitable to you, which is fine, but you can't put the blame on NRS. I wanted to play UMVC3 competitively and I dropped the game because I couldn't handle the speed and long combos in it. Did I made compliment threads on MVC forums begging Capcom to reduce the combos and speed for it? No, I just went back to MK9, because I would rather spend the time on the game that I love and can play from a company that I love, rather then ruin other games for everyone else who can enjoy them.

So at the end of the day, NRS are doing a great job and only improving with each game in every regard, and they actually do listen to complaints from fans, and if it is truly a problem, they will fix it, which is more then can I say about other companies (cough* Capcom). But you also need to know WHEN is the right time to complain, and DO NOT DO IT JUST FOR AMUSEMENT, because that is just wrong.

Okay. Are you actually stating that you don't think MKX was an unbalanced mess before that last balance patch that came out about a year and a half into the game's life? Because admittedly, there wasn't really anything truly broken in that game. But not having infinites or 10-0 match ups does not mean a game is balanced. It just means it isn't broken. A game that heavily and disproportionately favors a fraction of the cast at a tournament level... yeah, that's a little unbalanced at least. And... oh wait, that describes that first year and a half of MKX perfectly.

Sure, no match up was unwinnable and you could lab long shot, perfectly executed work arounds to a lot of powerful things... but come on man. Don't get all revisionist here.

 

[Roy Arkon]

Okay. Are you actually stating that you don't think MKX was an unbalanced mess before that last balance patch that came out about a year and a half into the game's life? Because admittedly, there wasn't really anything truly broken in that game. But not having infinites or 10-0 match ups does not mean a game is balanced. It just means it isn't broken. A game that heavily and disproportionately favors a fraction of the cast at a tournament level... yeah, that's a little unbalanced at least. And... oh wait, that describes that first year and a half of MKX perfectly.

Sure, no match up was unwinnable and you could lab long shot, perfectly executed work arounds to a lot of powerful things... but come on man. Don't get all revisionist here.

I never said that the game didn't had any balance issues at all, but I also never said anything about infinites and 10-0 MU's either. Every fighting game has balance issues at the start, and MKX was no exception, but that can be said for any fighting game, and NRS did there best to balance the game, and MKX became the most balanced MK game to date, way before the final patch, which balanced the game even more.

Now we have Injustice 2, a game that tomorrow will be one week old, and that game might have some balance issues at the start like any respectful fighting game from any company (NRS/WB, Capcom, IG etc) but people need to check things before complaining about stuff. Because even if there are a few issues at the start, if they actually take the time to test things out, they might find out that such problems weren't as big as first thought.

 

[Somea2V]

I never said that the game didn't had any balance issues at all, but I also never said anything about infinites and 10-0 MU's either. Every fighting game has balance issues at the start, and MKX was no exception, but that can be said for any fighting game, and NRS did there best to balance the game, and MKX became the most balanced MK game to date, way before the final patch, which balanced the game even more.

Now we have Injustice 2, a game that tomorrow will be one week old, and that game might have some balance issues at the start like any respectful fighting game from any company (NRS/WB, Capcom, IG etc) but people need to check things before complaining about stuff. Because even if there are a few issues at the start, if they actually take the time to test things out, they might find out that such problems weren't as big as first thought.

So I mentioned that it lacked infinites and unwinnable match ups to make the point MKX was never broken. It was unbalanced, which you admit, so at least you're not completely crazy.

And that last paragraph and point you're making IS EXACTLY what I already espoused. Maybe not with the fanboyism you clearly feel for NRS, but still.

I'm going to go ahead and leave this alone now because we agree on the important things and I don't feel like listening to straw man arguments and blatant misrepresentation of what I said for the rest.