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Why do people hate Injustice 2? Podcast Discussion.

Skedar70

Noob
Honestly don't think that. I've seen haters in EVERY genre and as a whole, it boils down to the actual product.
You have never actually invested any serious time in the game. You are just like the rest who come in like sheep just repeating what others say. You don't even play inj but yet you lurk daily in here giving your opinion on something you actually know nothing about. Talking about product Inj 2 is the most critically acclaimed fighting game out there. Even then I don't need a critics opinion to actually see with my own eyes the quality of a product like the injustice 2 software.
 
Logged in for the first time in months to respond here.

This game is a product of what the community has been asking for since mk9 days. It is by far... BY FAR the most balanced game in NRS history.

Imo there are Several things holding it back from having cult level support, stream numbers, entrants...

Depth. The game lacks depth and is the biggest thing hurting the game. I have no doubt about this. In i1 or mkx we were constantly seeing new things on stream at tournament majors. Things to keep hype alive. Personally, I would spend hours and hours in training mode with sinestro. 2 years into the game and I was still finding crazy new stuff. Most characters in this game can be learned at a very high level with in a few days. Of course i1 aqua/dd was similar but you could not say that about almost the entire cast. You could not learn zod or sinestro or flash or whoever in a few days. What you see is kinda what you get. Starfire, deadshot, And like easy to use characters are examples to my point. They literally had to remove deadshot from the game bc his design was so bad he could not be salvaged. Just think about i1 and the personalities reflected in characters? Honey bees flash, ppj hawk girl, decay lobo, ducky’s raven, fox batgirl, white boi dd, tyrants grundy, pigs and M2dave’s zod. The banes. So much depth and personality in their play. Now I honestly could not tell a difference btw BAs or flash players.

Unprofessional faces of the scene. It is a lot easier for ppl to hate on a game when they see their gaming idols and people to learn from constantly complaining and saying they hate the game. The most recent sonic fox example comes to mind in which he blatetly shit on the NRS scene and one of its biggest supporters in WOTGs and a flurry on “I hate injustice tweets”.

NRS and the lack of a social media front. They are in media blackout and will not comment on the game nor is it being supported anymore. I do not pretend to understand the business model and money side but the lack of new content in this generation turns people off. Another combat pack and the evo i2 numbers would but much much bigger.

The NRS cycle. We have been classically conditioned to expect a new game every few years and it allows people the “I’ll just wait for the next game to be good again” cop out.
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
You have never actually invested any serious time in the game. You are just like the rest who come in like sheep just repeating what others say. You don't even play inj but yet you lurk daily in here giving your opinion on something you actually know nothing about. Talking about product Inj 2 is the most critically acclaimed fighting game out there. Even then I don't need a critics opinion to actually see with my own eyes the quality of a product like the injustice 2 software.
Uh EXCUUUUUSE me, Gorilla Monsoon!

I guess you didn't see Uncle JBeezY's numerous combo videos I've posted on this site WITH in depth notations and slow motion repeats on how to get them right. AS WELL as praise this site as an awesome community!

I guess you didn't see Uncle JBeezY's interactions with people on site getting actual games, actual party lobbys, actual BONDING with the community, making actual gaming friends who I will soon meet at EVO ;)

I guess you didn't see Uncle JBeezY's actual discussions in character forums of interest, such as Hell Boy, Atom, Enchantress, etc. LOOK EM UP BUDDY!

But fuck my presence, right? I'm just sheep to you I guess....:rolleyes: Word of advice tho, instead of acting like you're calling it like you see it, you forgot to actually SEE! I know you see me as nobody to you, and that's fine. But I've put in my time and my MONEY into this game just like you have, therefor; I most certainly can voice my distaste for the product if I see fit. Just because people like me are in the same boat, doesn't mean its hate. And THAT'S the problem we have here. It's not hating if its true! This is why we as the community need to continue to have these conversations on why Injustice 2 is bombing. I like this community, you like this community, and whoever else keeps coming back to this site likes this community as well. Obviously we want to see it grow, but the growth will never come if the basic ass opposition is always going to be, "The game is great. People don't like it because they're haters." Say the game is great to YOU. That's more realistic. Thats a start of a good conversation on how the next NRS game could be the game everybody checks for :)
 

LaidbackOne

Scrubby nice guy
Best way to make new people hating on a game, is to do a video tagged as "why people hate this game".

Very good youtube clickbait title, but do not serve this community at all. Especially when the game is maybe hated by 3 pgm out there but well received by players.
Yes, because when people will see the video title, they will automatically start hating the game. Nice logic there buddy.

Discussion (instead of blind, dumb praise) tends to help.
 

Icefyre

Shadows
Injustice 2 is a good game. The NRS community is just used to hating. Its all they do.
Hating on the NRS community has become just as much of a meme as hating the game, at this point.

I wish people would stop lumping everybody who doesn't like the game in together. I find the game boring, among other things, and it wasn't because of any sort of sheep mentality that I moved on from it a long time ago (or at least it feels like a long time ago now). That being said, I actually want the game to succeed. I don't hate the game, and I have no reason to want it to fail just because I don't personally find it enjoyable.

I understand and respect the pros and strengths that people find in the game. If you don't find any cons in the game that prevent you from enjoying it, then more power to you. I support you in that, play what you like. But this idea that people who don't like it must be nothing more than a hater with a sheep mentality astounds me. Are there people like that? Absolutely, and that applies to many aspects of life. There are also people who form their own opinions about something and *gasp* come to the same conclusion, and all I'm asking is that people stop pretending as if that's rare.

That's one of the many reasons I took such an issue with Roy calling Juggs a toxic poster in the other thread. I, and I'll assume the same for Juggs, want NRS to succeed. So if I mention things that I don't like about the game, that doesn't make me a hater. I can fairly and accurately call that subjective constructive criticism that happens to be shared by a lot of others in the playerbase. Plenty of people (not everybody, surely) post about things they don't like about the game so that NRS has feedback to work with for making future games better. You'll never please everybody, of course, but gathering data on what aspects turned the most people off is useful and determined by the people who actually say something.
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
Hating on the NRS community has become just as much of a meme as hating the game, at this point.

I wish people would stop lumping everybody who doesn't like the game in together. I find the game boring, among other things, and it wasn't because of any sort of sheep mentality that I moved on from it a long time ago (or at least it feels like a long time ago now). That being said, I actually want the game to succeed. I don't hate the game, and I have no reason to want it to fail just because I don't personally find it enjoyable.

I understand and respect the pros and strengths that people find in the game. If you don't find any cons in the game that prevent you from enjoying it, then more power to you. I support you in that, play what you like. But this idea that people who don't like it must be nothing more than a hater with a sheep mentality astounds me. Are there people like that? Absolutely, and that applies to many aspects of life. There are also people who form their own opinions about something and *gasp* come to the same conclusion, and all I'm asking is that people stop pretending as if that's rare.

That's one of the many reasons I took such an issue with Roy calling Juggs a toxic poster in the other thread. I, and I'll assume the same for Juggs, want NRS to succeed. So if I mention things that I don't like about the game, that doesn't make me a hater. I can fairly and accurately call that subjective constructive criticism that happens to be shared by a lot of others in the playerbase. Plenty of people (not everybody, surely) post about things they don't like about the game so that NRS has feedback to work with for making future games better. You'll never please everybody, of course, but gathering data on what aspects turned the most people off is useful and determined by the people who actually say something.
All of this box of sunshine right here! Give this man a reward! :D
 

LaidbackOne

Scrubby nice guy
Hating on the NRS community has become just as much of a meme as hating the game, at this point.

I wish people would stop lumping everybody who doesn't like the game in together. I find the game boring, among other things, and it wasn't because of any sort of sheep mentality that I moved on from it a long time ago (or at least it feels like a long time ago now). That being said, I actually want the game to succeed. I don't hate the game, and I have no reason to want it to fail just because I don't personally find it enjoyable.

I understand and respect the pros and strengths that people find in the game. If you don't find any cons in the game that prevent you from enjoying it, then more power to you. I support you in that, play what you like. But this idea that people who don't like it must be nothing more than a hater with a sheep mentality astounds me. Are there people like that? Absolutely, and that applies to many aspects of life. There are also people who form their own opinions about something and *gasp* come to the same conclusion, and all I'm asking is that people stop pretending as if that's rare.

That's one of the many reasons I took such an issue with Roy calling Juggs a toxic poster in the other thread. I, and I'll assume the same for Juggs, want NRS to succeed. So if I mention things that I don't like about the game, that doesn't make me a hater. I can fairly and accurately call that subjective constructive criticism that happens to be shared by a lot of others in the playerbase. Plenty of people (not everybody, surely) post about things they don't like about the game so that NRS has feedback to work with for making future games better. You'll never please everybody, of course, but gathering data on what aspects turned the most people off is useful and determined by the people who actually say something.
Well said!
I would only add that you're a potato if you don't get it.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Logged in for the first time in months to respond here.

This game is a product of what the community has been asking for since mk9 days. It is by far... BY FAR the most balanced game in NRS history.

Imo there are Several things holding it back from having cult level support, stream numbers, entrants...

Depth. The game lacks depth and is the biggest thing hurting the game. I have no doubt about this. In i1 or mkx we were constantly seeing new things on stream at tournament majors. Things to keep hype alive. Personally, I would spend hours and hours in training mode with sinestro. 2 years into the game and I was still finding crazy new stuff. Most characters in this game can be learned at a very high level with in a few days. Of course i1 aqua/dd was similar but you could not say that about almost the entire cast. You could not learn zod or sinestro or flash or whoever in a few days. What you see is kinda what you get. Starfire, deadshot, And like easy to use characters are examples to my point. They literally had to remove deadshot from the game bc his design was so bad he could not be salvaged. Just think about i1 and the personalities reflected in characters? Honey bees flash, ppj hawk girl, decay lobo, ducky’s raven, fox batgirl, white boi dd, tyrants grundy, pigs and M2dave’s zod. The banes. So much depth and personality in their play. Now I honestly could not tell a difference btw BAs or flash players.

Unprofessional faces of the scene. It is a lot easier for ppl to hate on a game when they see their gaming idols and people to learn from constantly complaining and saying they hate the game. The most recent sonic fox example comes to mind in which he blatetly shit on the NRS scene and one of its biggest supporters in WOTGs and a flurry on “I hate injustice tweets”.

NRS and the lack of a social media front. They are in media blackout and will not comment on the game nor is it being supported anymore. I do not pretend to understand the business model and money side but the lack of new content in this generation turns people off. Another combat pack and the evo i2 numbers would but much much bigger.

The NRS cycle. We have been classically conditioned to expect a new game every few years and it allows people the “I’ll just wait for the next game to be good again” cop out.
Imo the thing that seems to be popping up is that players cannot tell the difference between the meta and the game. If the meta was Atom, Grodd, Robin, Blue Beetle, Ivy, Enchantress etc. would you be saying this about the game? How many people are putting in work in Top 8 with a 2-week old Batman?

So your problem is with the meta, not the game. The game has as much depth as Injustice 1. In fact, it has more depth than Injustice 1 mechanically. The wakeup game is deeper, there are added mechanics like MB roll, etc.

People forget this because it’s a ‘legacy’ title, and they already learned half the mechanics 3 years ago. If the entire community had to explore Injustice 2 from scratch as a new game, I’m 100% sure that they’d be talking differently about it.

In either case, it sounds like your issue is with the meta, not the game itself.
 
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Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Hating on the NRS community has become just as much of a meme as hating the game, at this point.

I wish people would stop lumping everybody who doesn't like the game in together. I find the game boring, among other things, and it wasn't because of any sort of sheep mentality that I moved on from it a long time ago (or at least it feels like a long time ago now). That being said, I actually want the game to succeed. I don't hate the game, and I have no reason to want it to fail just because I don't personally find it enjoyable.

I understand and respect the pros and strengths that people find in the game. If you don't find any cons in the game that prevent you from enjoying it, then more power to you. I support you in that, play what you like. But this idea that people who don't like it must be nothing more than a hater with a sheep mentality astounds me. Are there people like that? Absolutely, and that applies to many aspects of life. There are also people who form their own opinions about something and *gasp* come to the same conclusion, and all I'm asking is that people stop pretending as if that's rare.

That's one of the many reasons I took such an issue with Roy calling Juggs a toxic poster in the other thread. I, and I'll assume the same for Juggs, want NRS to succeed. So if I mention things that I don't like about the game, that doesn't make me a hater. I can fairly and accurately call that subjective constructive criticism that happens to be shared by a lot of others in the playerbase. Plenty of people (not everybody, surely) post about things they don't like about the game so that NRS has feedback to work with for making future games better. You'll never please everybody, of course, but gathering data on what aspects turned the most people off is useful and determined by the people who actually say something.
I'm sorry but what you said regarding me and Juggs in that other thread is not true. I understand that some people are not gonna like every game. If you truly don't like the game, that is perfectly fine. The problem I had with Juggs in that thread is that all of his complaints were said in a hyperbole tone, like the "NRS didn't consider the lifespan of their games" or the games aren't build to last". Once you said stuff like that, you basically saying "there is no point to even consider to get into the competitive scene for those games because it's not worth it". And then, once you try to excuse that as claiming it is nothing more then an observation, that looks like as if you do know what you're saying, but you don't wanna take any responsibility if the games will indeed fail while your comments as well as of others that were similar to yours from other people caused the game to fail. And it's not just Juggs, even Hayatei said similar stuff regarding the mechanics of NRS games. And it wasn't just me who had an issue with those comments, King Hippo and Slips talked about that in their podcast, that saying stuff like that is not true at all, as no fighting before probably SF4 meant to last as well. That is true to ST, MVC2, Melee etc , they were all happy accidents and that's it. Melee i particular wasn't even suppose to be a fighting game but rather a fun party game. And just like I've said throughout this thread as well, you can still find new stuff for IJ2 if you just take the time to find stuff for the chars and MU's, just as much as you can for other NRS games, old MK games and other games from other companies.

So once you're saying hyperbole stuff and making excuses for them, then yes, it is toxicity. And hell, even @PLAYING TO WIN in the post above, he pretty much have put the blame on anyone and anything that can be a part of the "problem" (and I put that in quotes because it seems that the problem for PTW is indeed the meta and not the game, as @CrimsonShadow said), except the small people that you can find on TYM and other places. Yes he blamed the pros, who are also a part of the community, but the small people, if they scream load and long enough, can have influence just as much as the pros, and they purposely do so just to get their own agenda, rather then saying stuff for the better of the game. And it happened way too many times, which is why NRS/WB haven't done that many patches for IJ2 like with their previous games.

You can like and dislike whatever you want, but like I said several times in the past, if you are gonna complain and rant, at least be reasonable with your rants. That means if you wanna complain for the sake of giving constructive criticism and not because you a hater or someone who wants to get things his way only, you need to give that criticism in a way that will match your true attentions. Not just the tone of your claims, but the actual words themselves. And that is something that a lot of people need to understand. They need to understand that just like NRS/WB can wrong, the small people can be wrong as well.

So both you Icefyre as well as @Juggs, if you guys truly are not haters like you made yourself to look like, I am very very very sorry for blaming you and I hope you both can accept my apology. I just hope you both, as well as many others, will understand that you also need to take responsibility for your own words, so you separate yourself from those who wanna complain just to complain or just to get their way, if you truly want NRS/WB to succeed. I am not the only who is aware of that, as Hippo and Slips are as well, it's just that there are way too many people who don't, both from the pros and the small people. I only hope they will know that at the end.
 
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Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
I'm sorry but what you said regarding me and Juggs in that other thread is not true. I understand that some people are not gonna like every game. If you truly don't like the game, that is perfectly fine. The problem I had with Juggs in that thread is that all of his complaints were said in a hyperbole tone, like the "NRS didn't consider the lifespan of their games" or the games aren't build to last". Once you said stuff like that, you basically saying "there is no point to even consider to get into the competitive scene for those games because it's not worth it". And then, once you try to excuse that as claiming it is nothing more then an observation, that looks like as if you do know what you're saying, but you don't wanna take any responsibility if the games will indeed fail while your comments as well as of others that were similar to yours from other people caused the game to fail. And it's not just Juggs, even Hayatei said similar stuff regarding the mechanics of NRS games. And it wasn't just me who had an issue with those comments, King Hippo and Slips talked about that in their podcast, that saying stuff like that is not true at all, as no fighting before probably SF4 meant to last as well. That is true to ST, MVC2, Melee etc , they were all happy accidents and that's it. Melee i particular wasn't even suppose to be a fighting game but rather a fun party game. And just like I've said throughout this thread as well, you can still find new stuff for IJ2 if you just take the time to find stuff for the chars and MU's, just as much as you can for other NRS games, old MK games and other games from other companies.

So once you're saying hyperbole stuff and making excuses for them, then yes, it is toxicity. And hell, even @PLAYING TO WIN in the post above, he pretty much have put the blame on anyone and anything that can be a part of the "problem" (and I put that in quotes because it seems that the problem for PTW is indeed the meta and not the game, as @CrimsonShadow said), except the small people that you can find on TYM and other places. Yes he blamed the pros, who are also a part of the community, but the small people, if they scream load and long enough, can have influence just as much as the pros, and they purposely do so just to get their own agenda, rather then saying stuff for the better of the game. And it happened way too many times, which is why NRS/WB haven't done that many patches for IJ2 like with their previous games.

You can like and dislike whatever you want, but like I said several times in the past, if you are gonna complain and rant, at least be reasonable with your rants. That means if you wanna complain for the sake of giving constructive criticism and not because you a hater or someone who wants to get things his way only, you need to give that criticism in a way that will match your true attentions. Not just the tone of your claims, but the actual words themselves. And that is something that a lot of people need to understand. They need to understand that just like NRS/WB can wrong, the small people can be wrong as well.

So both you Icefyre as well as @Juggs, if you guys truly are not haters like you made yourself to look like, I am very very very sorry for blaming you and I hope you both can accept my apology. I just hope you both, as well as many others, will understand that you also need to take responsibility for your own words, so you separate yourself from those who wanna complain just to complain or just to get their way, if you truly want NRS/WB to succeed. I am not the only who is aware of that, as Hippo and Slips are as well, it's just that there are way too many people who don't, both from the pros and the small people. I only hope they will know that at the end.
Apology accepted, let’s move on.
 
So your problem is with the meta, not the game. The game has as much depth as Injustice 1. In fact, it has more depth than Injustice 1 mechanically. The wakeup game is deeper, there are added mechanics like MB roll, etc.
Man I don’t even know what to say to this. It’s is wrong. Adding mb roll to the game does give it more depth. Did you even play i2 at a competitive level? How could u even say that? Characters have very little depth minus a few.

Top players could not have a 3 to 4 char roster in i1 bc THEY WERE HARDER TO LEARN. you could not use sinestro in a week or the majority of the cast. In i2 that’s only true for a handful of unviable utility characters.
 
I'm sorry but what you said regarding me and Juggs in that other thread is not true. I understand that some people are not gonna like every game. If you truly don't like the game, that is perfectly fine. The problem I had with Juggs in that thread is that all of his complaints were said in a hyperbole tone, like the "NRS didn't consider the lifespan of their games" or the games aren't build to last". Once you said stuff like that, you basically saying "there is no point to even consider to get into the competitive scene for those games because it's not worth it". And then, once you try to excuse that as claiming it is nothing more then an observation, that looks like as if you do know what you're saying, but you don't wanna take any responsibility if the games will indeed fail while your comments as well as of others that were similar to yours from other people caused the game to fail. And it's not just Juggs, even Hayatei said similar stuff regarding the mechanics of NRS games. And it wasn't just me who had an issue with those comments, King Hippo and Slips talked about that in their podcast, that saying stuff like that is not true at all, as no fighting before probably SF4 meant to last as well. That is true to ST, MVC2, Melee etc , they were all happy accidents and that's it. Melee i particular wasn't even suppose to be a fighting game but rather a fun party game. And just like I've said throughout this thread as well, you can still find new stuff for IJ2 if you just take the time to find stuff for the chars and MU's, just as much as you can for other NRS games, old MK games and other games from other companies.

So once you're saying hyperbole stuff and making excuses for them, then yes, it is toxicity. And hell, even @PLAYING TO WIN in the post above, he pretty much have put the blame on anyone and anything that can be a part of the "problem" (and I put that in quotes because it seems that the problem for PTW is indeed the meta and not the game, as @CrimsonShadow said), except the small people that you can find on TYM and other places. Yes he blamed the pros, who are also a part of the community, but the small people, if they scream load and long enough, can have influence just as much as the pros, and they purposely do so just to get their own agenda, rather then saying stuff for the better of the game. And it happened way too many times, which is why NRS/WB haven't done that many patches for IJ2 like with their previous games.

You can like and dislike whatever you want, but like I said several times in the past, if you are gonna complain and rant, at least be reasonable with your rants. That means if you wanna complain for the sake of giving constructive criticism and not because you a hater or someone who wants to get things his way only, you need to give that criticism in a way that will match your true attentions. Not just the tone of your claims, but the actual words themselves. And that is something that a lot of people need to understand. They need to understand that just like NRS/WB can wrong, the small people can be wrong as well.

So both you Icefyre as well as @Juggs, if you guys truly are not haters like you made yourself to look like, I am very very very sorry for blaming you and I hope you both can accept my apology. I just hope you both, as well as many others, will understand that you also need to take responsibility for your own words, so you separate yourself from those who wanna complain just to complain or just to get their way, if you truly want NRS/WB to succeed. I am not the only who is aware of that, as Hippo and Slips are as well, it's just that there are way too many people who don't, both from the pros and the small people. I only hope they will know that at the end.
Tldr.
 

KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
Top players could not have a 3 to 4 char roster in i1 bc THEY WERE HARDER TO LEARN. you could not use sinestro in a week or the majority of the cast. In i2 that’s only true for a handful of unviable utility characters.
I see this talking point a lot, but it is a very silly claim. There was nothing stopping people from using 3-4 characters if they wanted, it was just largely unnecessary: the matchups were far more skewed. If I used Aquaman, as an example, who would I possibly need a counterpick for? Lex? Let's say even then, a Superman or Zod with very little time investment could smash Lex into oblivion. It just wasn't necessary. If I played Batgirl, that is yet another character where picking up a secondary would be redundant. As it would for Martian.

The simple truth is that the top tier chars of IGAU counterpicked the entire meta. Aquaman and Martian alone could tackle the entire game, as could Batgirl. Sure enough, we would see pocket Aquaman come out a lot because he was a very easy solution to some even really good characters like a Flash or a Sinestro or a Superman.

There's no need to pretend IGAU had a higher skill level, because it's just not true. The reality is that unlike I2, the best characters could simply not be counterpicked.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Man I don’t even know what to say to this. It’s is wrong. Adding mb roll to the game does give it more depth. Did you even play i2 at a competitive level? How could u even say that? Characters have very little depth minus a few.

Top players could not have a 3 to 4 char roster in i1 bc THEY WERE HARDER TO LEARN. you could not use sinestro in a week or the majority of the cast. In i2 that’s only true for a handful of unviable utility characters.
Again, you’re just talking about the meta. Who has a 3-4 character roster with characters like Beetle, Cold etc.? Not every character is a Starfire, but that’s what’s useful at the moment so people pick her up.

If the game were rebalanced toward making more interesting/quirky characters the strongest (say, Grodd for example), you wouldn’t be saying this. So clearly it’s about the meta and not about the game itself at a fundamental level.

Meanwhile, Semij is winning tournaments with Catwoman, and I definitely don’t see anyone’s 2-week Catwoman putting in work.
 
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Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
The problem I had with Juggs in that thread is that all of his complaints were said in a hyperbole tone, like the "NRS didn't consider the lifespan of their games" or the games aren't build to last". Once you said stuff like that, you basically saying "there is no point to even consider to get into the competitive scene for those games because it's not worth it". And then, once you try to excuse that as claiming it is nothing more then an observation, that looks like as if you do know what you're saying, but you don't wanna take any responsibility if the games will indeed fail while your comments as well as of others that were similar to yours from other people caused the game to fail. And it's not just Juggs, even Hayatei said similar stuff regarding the mechanics of NRS games. And it wasn't just me who had an issue with those comments, King Hippo and Slips talked about that in their podcast, that saying stuff like that is not true at all, as no fighting before probably SF4 meant to last as well. That is true to ST, MVC2, Melee etc , they were all happy accidents and that's it. Melee i particular wasn't even suppose to be a fighting game but rather a fun party game. And just like I've said throughout this thread as well, you can still find new stuff for IJ2 if you just take the time to find stuff for the chars and MU's, just as much as you can for other NRS games, old MK games and other games from other companies.
I didn’t say “NRS didn’t consider the lifespan of their games”, I said the opposite. I said they admitted they have a lifespan or cycle and were surprised people knew about it.

You can play whatever game(s) you want, for whatever reasons you want, for however long you want. I couldn’t care less. The point I was making is getting to the bottom of why people drop NRS games within the 2 year cycle. There’s several reasons for this, one of them is I believe that the games aren’t built with lasting quality in mind. I don’t believe that’s a huge factor, but I believe it is A factor. You, Hippo, Slips, CrimCrumb and whoever else do not have to agree with me, it’s okay. That’s why it’s called an opinion, Roy. Some people agree with your opinion, some people don’t. That’s kinda how it works.

So both you Icefyre as well as @Juggs, if you guys truly are not haters like you made yourself to look like, I am very very very sorry for blaming you and I hope you both can accept my apology. I just hope you both, as well as many others, will understand that you also need to take responsibility for your own words, so you separate yourself from those who wanna complain just to complain or just to get their way, if you truly want NRS/WB to succeed. I am not the only who is aware of that, as Hippo and Slips are as well, it's just that there are way too many people who don't, both from the pros and the small people. I only hope they will know that at the end.
I never made myself look like a hater, that was just your delusional perception. I never even complained or ranted, you just read what you want to read. All I did was express my opinion of why people inevitably drop NRS games. And that yes, if “everyone just kept playing”, the games wouldn’t die. But the entire point is the atmosphere and conditioning leading to people to eventually stop caring about the game.
 
I see this talking point a lot, but it is a very silly claim. There was nothing stopping people from using 3-4 characters if they wanted, it was just largely unnecessary: the matchups were far more skewed. If I used Aquaman, as an example, who would I possibly need a counterpick for? Lex? Let's say even then, a Superman or Zod with very little time investment could smash Lex into oblivion. It just wasn't necessary. If I played Batgirl, that is yet another character where picking up a secondary would be redundant. As it would for Martian.

The simple truth is that the top tier chars of IGAU counterpicked the entire meta. Aquaman and Martian alone could tackle the entire game, as could Batgirl. Sure enough, we would see pocket Aquaman come out a lot because he was a very easy solution to some even really good characters like a Flash or a Sinestro or a Superman.

There's no need to pretend IGAU had a higher skill level, because it's just not true. The reality is that unlike I2, the best characters could simply not be counterpicked.

I’m not on Twitter fgc or going to streams a lot so I don’t know what others are saying. If many ppl are bringing it up then maybe there is something to it? All I know is through this games life, “3 day old characters” were having a huge presence and effect on tournaments. Most recently star fire. Many people who barely use her got crucial wins to advance.

I’m old and have been around awhile. I’m giving my honest option on the games faults. I use sf, aqua and ds. Literally... nothing to lab other than matchups. Zero level of creativity. There is no depth to any of them. Not saying they are good or bad but there is literally nothing more to learn. 2 to 3 years in to i1 I was still having a lot of fun lab’ing for hours and hours.

And no crimson, I’m not talking about the games meta and have no idea how you came to that conclusion based on my main points.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Let's say even then, a Superman or Zod with very little time investment could smash Lex into oblivion.
I agree with the premise of your post, but in order to have a serious advantage against Lex the Zod player must at least have average execution to perform instant aerial Zod balls and a very good understanding of the trait and its utility. Only Relaxed State made the match look unwinnable for Lex players because of his consistent execution.

Meanwhile, Semij is winning tournaments with Catwoman, and I definitely don’t see anyone’s 2-week Catwoman putting in work.
Both Rewind and Sonic Fox picked up and learned Catwoman rather quickly. The same is true for Starfire, whom many players, such as BioHazard and HoneyBee, have recently picked up and learned. Aquaman aside, this was fairly uncommon in Injustice 1.
 
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KingHippo

Alternative-Fact Checker
I’m not on Twitter fgc or going to streams a lot so I don’t know what others are saying. If many ppl are bringing it up then maybe there is something to it? All I know is through this games life, “3 day old characters” were having a huge presence and effect on tournaments. Most recently star fire. Many people who barely use her got crucial wins to advance.
Honeybee has footage of him using Starfire months ago, and Biohazard has been using Starfire as far back as 2017, these are not "3 day" picks.

I’m old and have been around awhile. I’m giving my honest option on the games faults. I use sf, aqua and ds. Literally... nothing to lab other than matchups. Zero level of creativity. There is no depth to any of them. Not saying they are good or bad but there is literally nothing more to learn. 2 to 3 years in to i1 I was still having a lot of fun lab’ing for hours and hours.


The problems you are describing also exist in IGAU.

The reality is that characters like Starfire existed in IGAU as well: easy to use character that could counter the absolute hell out of certain characters because of the way the game works. The only difference now? People wisened up and started using those characters when they want to win. If people wanted to smash 16 Bit's Catwoman, there was a very simple counterpick to learn. If people wanted to smash Ducky's Raven, again, there was another very easy counterpick to use (This actually happened to him at Evo 2014). Tyrant's Grundy? Same thing. Saltface Harley? Same thing. PPJ Hawk Girl? Same thing.

My point is, the "depth" of IGAU came from the best players also being the most knowledgeable when it came to matchups. Could you pickup a pretty basic Aquaman and be very competitive against 16 Bit or WoundCowboy? Absolutely. But they didn't thrown down the controller and say "if only this game had DEPTH we wouldn't see these counterpicks!" (Well, maybe Wound), they just played on and learned matchup knowledge in order to try and soften the blow. Players today could still do that, but when there's thousands of dollars on the line and entry into a very big tournament, nobody wants to work that hard. And luckily, NRS games by nature are simple, and the way the game operates tends to create poor matchups based on some simple base traits. So you will see more counterpicking than ever, when the truth is IGAU would have had the same amount if people cared enough to try.

Mind you that's not a criticism of that mindset, just pointing out that IGAU and I2 have the same skeleton, and the flaws of one are reflected in the other. Players are just smarter now.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I didn’t say “NRS didn’t consider the lifespan of their games”, I said the opposite. I said they admitted they have a lifespan or cycle and were surprised people knew about it.

You can play whatever game(s) you want, for whatever reasons you want, for however long you want. I couldn’t care less. The point I was making is getting to the bottom of why people drop NRS games within the 2 year cycle. There’s several reasons for this, one of them is I believe that the games aren’t built with lasting quality in mind. I don’t believe that’s a huge factor, but I believe it is A factor. You, Hippo, Slips, CrimCrumb and whoever else do not have to agree with me, it’s okay. That’s why it’s called an opinion, Roy. Some people agree with your opinion, some people don’t. That’s kinda how it works.



I never made myself look like a hater, that was just your delusional perception. I never even complained or ranted, you just read what you want to read. All I did was express my opinion of why people inevitably drop NRS games. And that yes, if “everyone just kept playing”, the games wouldn’t die. But the entire point is the atmosphere and conditioning leading to people to eventually stop caring about the game.
But it is not about not accepting someone's opinion, this claim at it's core is just silly. No disrespect. Yes NRS have admitted about the CYCLE of their business model, but the cycle of their games releases and the lifespan of their games are two different things. Just because they have released their games in a 2 year cycle, that doesn't that their lifespan is short. And considering that people still play MKX at majors (again 3 this year so far and 4th one coming this weekend) and people still find stuff for MKX as well as their other games, that only proves that it they are built to last. The main focus of the scene might move to the next game, but if MKX has taught us anything, there is more then enough focus for MKX as well, in addition to IJ2.

A game that is truly not built to last is more like a sports game like Madden or Call of Duty, a series which Activition purposely release every year a game for it (not 2 years) and they even have several studios to keep that cycle, and they barely innovate with their games, and when they do, they almost never put the innovation and effort in the right places. In fact, a ton of the haters even darted to call NRS games the "Call of Duty games" of the fighting game genre, just because they make the games towards casuals more then any other company and the 2 year cycle. But this couldn't have been further from the truth, as NRS/WB make sure to give their fans a new product every time both in the casual side and competitive side and satisfy everyone from both aspects, unlike some other companies who can't give a satisfying fighting game after 5+ years. That's BTW one of the reason why I barely play fighting games that aren't from NRS right now.

Not to mention that you ignore the fact that WB is the publisher here, so it's not that NRS don't have their games' cycle or their lifespan in mind, it's WB who most likely didn't have, and even them proved that they do now, thanks to having MKX in majors with pot prizes on the line.

So if make that type of a claim for those reasons, then yes, it does make you sound like a hater, and top of that it makes you look like you don't any responsibility for what you're saying, as if you're saying that NRS are the only problem here, while those claims surely make you to be the problem. You might have not noticed that, but that's the case here. I know what I saw, and I read exactly what you said.

So yeah, you can any opinion you want, but you need to be cautions with your words, that's all I'm saying.
 
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LaidbackOne

Scrubby nice guy
But it is not about not accepting someone's opinion, this claim at it's core is just silly. No disrespect. Yes NRS have admitted about the CYCLE of their business model, but the cycle of their games releases and the lifespan of their games are two different things. Just because they have released their games in a 2 year cycle, that doesn't that their lifespan is short. And considering that people still play MKX at majors (again 3 this year so far and 4th one coming this weekend) and people still find stuff for MKX as well as their other games, that only proves that it they are built to last. The main focus of the scene might move to the next game, but if MKX has taught us anything, there is more then enough focus for MKX as well, in addition to IJ2.

A game that is truly not built to last is more like a sports game like Madden or Call of Duty, a series which Activition purposely release every year a game for it (not 2 years) and they even have several studios to keep that cycle, and they barely innovate with their games, and when they do, they almost never put the innovation and effort in the right places. In fact, a ton of the haters even darted to call NRS games the "Call of Duty games" of the fighting game genre, just because they make the games towards casuals more then any other company and the 2 year cycle. But this couldn't have been further from the truth, as NRS/WB make sure to give their fans a new product every time both in the casual side and competitive side and satisfy everyone from both aspects, unlike some other companies who can't give a satisfying fighting game after 5+ years. That's BTW one of the reason why I barely play fighting games that aren't from NRS right now.

Not to mention that you ignore the fact that WB is the publisher here, so it's not that NRS don't have their games' cycle or their lifespan in mind, it's WB who most likely didn't have, and even them proved that they do now, thanks to having MKX in majors with pot prizes on the line.

So if make that type of a claim for those reasons, then yes, it does make you sound like a hater, and top of that it makes you look like you don't any responsibility for what you're saying, as if you're saying that NRS are the only problem here, while those claims surely make you to be the problem. You might have not noticed that, but that's the case here. I know what I saw, and I read exactly what you said.

So yeah, you can any opinion you want, but you need to be cautions with your words, that's all I'm saying.
The irony here is just off the charts.
You are the fucking personification of hypocrisy.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Both Rewind and Sonic Fox picked up and learned Catwoman rather quickly. The same is true for Starfire, whom many players, such as BioHazard and HoneyBee, have recently picked up and learned. Aquaman aside, this was fairly uncommon in Injustice 1.
When have you ever known Sonic to not pick up a character quickly, no matter how complex?

He learns faster than everyone else — which is why he wins more than everyone else. Like Tweedy said, both of them have been training to do this since before they were old enough to drive.

Given that Sonic is a prodigy and can pick up most fighting game characters within a week, it’s a bad comparison to draw. But you knew that already imo.
 

Linkuei82

Live by the sword, Die by the sword
But it is not about not accepting someone's opinion, this claim at it's core is just silly. No disrespect. Yes NRS have admitted about the CYCLE of their business model, but the cycle of their games releases and the lifespan of their games are two different things. Just because they have released their games in a 2 year cycle, that doesn't that their lifespan is short. And considering that people still play MKX at majors (again 3 this year so far and 4th one coming this weekend) and people still find stuff for MKX as well as their other games, that only proves that it they are built to last. The main focus of the scene might move to the next game, but if MKX has taught us anything, there is more then enough focus for MKX as well, in addition to IJ2.

A game that is truly not built to last is more like a sports game like Madden or Call of Duty, a series which Activition purposely release every year a game for it (not 2 years) and they even have several studios to keep that cycle, and they barely innovate with their games, and when they do, they almost never put the innovation and effort in the right places. In fact, a ton of the haters even darted to call NRS games the "Call of Duty games" of the fighting game genre, just because they make the games towards casuals more then any other company and the 2 year cycle. But this couldn't have been further from the truth, as NRS/WB make sure to give their fans a new product every time both in the casual side and competitive side and satisfy everyone from both aspects, unlike some other companies who can't give a satisfying fighting game after 5+ years. That's BTW one of the reason why I barely play fighting games that aren't from NRS right now.

Not to mention that you ignore the fact that WB is the publisher here, so it's not that NRS don't have their games' cycle or their lifespan in mind, it's WB who most likely didn't have, and even them proved that they do now, thanks to having MKX in majors with pot prizes on the line.

So if make that type of a claim for those reasons, then yes, it does make you sound like a hater, and top of that it makes you look like you don't any responsibility for what you're saying, as if you're saying that NRS are the only problem here, while those claims surely make you to be the problem. You might have not noticed that, but that's the case here. I know what I saw, and I read exactly what you said.

So yeah, you can any opinion you want, but you need to be cautions with your words, that's all I'm saying.
I honestly think you are seeing things how you want to see them and taking thing waaayy out of proportion Roy...