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Why are people willing to pay for SSF4 AE?

Balance is for pussies




Believe me, I love super, but if super kept on the path it was on, we would never get a chance to see another "Yeb gen vs Floe Sagat" hype match again. Overpowered characters are good for the community and give people a reason to really REALLY learn the matchup. Over powered characters create underdog characters.

As it stood, everyone was pretty familiar with their matchups, but there was no vicious NEED to know certain matchups better than others because the game was just so balanced.





-Dammit_rab
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
That's totally untrue. There are waaaaay more useless characters in MK9 and waaaaay less 7-3 matchups in SSFIV.

Trust me when I say that AE is way more balanced than MK9. Go top 8 with Baraka, Sheeva, Smoke(Post patch), Sonya, or Quan Chi (post patch), and I'll say otherwise.
Same could be said about AE's stuff, ya know. :/

Name one Dan, Gouken, Oni, Hakan, Cody, Dee Jay, or T. Hawk that made top 8 at a major.

Btw, AE is just fun because of Oni. I don't mind characters that are designed to be strong, but what I dislike the most about what Capcom had been doing with the SFIV series is taking away stuff to the point where a lot of characters were really mediocre, instead of just making characters good and doing slight nerfs. Now you have the twins, who are pretty much designed exactly like SSFIV's characters not Sagat were TOTED to be designed...really good. And then you have characters they just buffed for no reason (Like Fei...he was already good in SFIV). It's just dumb what they've been doing to the game...that's why a lot of people are even more turned off by AE.
 

Slymind

Noob
Balance is for pussies




Believe me, I love super, but if super kept on the path it was on, we would never get a chance to see another "Yeb gen vs Floe Sagat" hype match again. Overpowered characters are good for the community and give people a reason to really REALLY learn the matchup. Over powered characters create underdog characters.

As it stood, everyone was pretty familiar with their matchups, but there was no vicious NEED to know certain matchups better than others because the game was just so balanced.





-Dammit_rab
I see your point, about the hype match you said, that's extremely situational, and for each one of those hype matches you said, there are 10 Rufus mirror matches, and learning the matchup is just half way, as a Dan player(and sometimes El Fuerte player) i knew most of my matchups and still had a really hard time dealing with some characters(Zangief and Blanka comes to mind). Balance is one in the best things in a game IMO because then you can see a really good amount of characters being used effectively in tournaments, streams etc, not only that but even for playing at home is way better, it was lame playing against a lot of Ryus in SFIV(don't know how the things are is super though), seriously it gets repetitive. I gotta say that, although i don't play your watch Tekken 6, the last evo, just by seeing a few matches a saw a much better variety of characters used than i ever saw in SSFIV(maybe it was coincidence but still...). See the same characters being used over and over again is extremely boring, so again, i see your point, but sure do not agree with it.
 
the reason mk is so "balanced" compared to sf is because in mk every character is the same. a good player can just pick random and dominate lesser players picking their mains over and over again. in ssf4 it doesnt work like that. you have to learn a character/s before you can compete with them because everyone is so different and unique in their fighting styles. street fighter will always be a better competetive fighting game in every way than mk so its kind of pointless to try to make mk9 on the same playing field as ssf4 because its not close. mk9 is a really fun game and the best mk game ever but come on now...it is not in the same league as ssf4...and $15 is very cheap for a completely new version of a game with 4 added characters.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
In any game, a good player will usually beat someone not as good, unless they pick a character they 100% don't know whatsoever. This is the same for SF, Tekken, MK, etc.
 
The moment you pick Sheeva...you WIN every MK match, casual, exhibition, mm, tournament, and etc...for the rest of your life!

Because that means you're the fucking BEST!!!! :headbang:

<3 Sheeva


On topic:

I got my copy of A.E for free. :p *Goes back to playing Sheeva Kombat MINE*
 
In any game, a good player will usually beat someone not as good, unless they pick a character they 100% don't know whatsoever. This is the same for SF, Tekken, MK, etc.
I have to agree here. When I play SF with my friends they dominate me no matter which character they play. I'm not terrible at the game, they're just more experienced than me. I can even tell them what character to play as and they'll beat me.
 
I'm just going to skip over the conversation going on around me. I was "willing" to pay for AE cause that's what is being played in my area. If I want to play offline, I have to put up with AE 90% of the time (I sneak in MK when I can). It's the same reason I have an xbox and xbox sticks, if I wanna play offline with someone else's console I have to put up with their hardware choice (and them having multiple sticks isn't usually an option), and if I wanna play them online I have to match their hardware first.
 
Balance is for pussies




Believe me, I love super, but if super kept on the path it was on, we would never get a chance to see another "Yeb gen vs Floe Sagat" hype match again. Overpowered characters are good for the community and give people a reason to really REALLY learn the matchup. Over powered characters create underdog characters.

As it stood, everyone was pretty familiar with their matchups, but there was no vicious NEED to know certain matchups better than others because the game was just so balanced.





-Dammit_rab
Lol ... epic troll post is epic ...
 
That's totally untrue. There are waaaaay more useless characters in MK9 and waaaaay less 7-3 matchups in SSFIV.

Trust me when I say that AE is way more balanced than MK9. Go top 8 with Baraka, Sheeva, Smoke(Post patch), Sonya, or Quan Chi (post patch), and I'll say otherwise.
I like how you think you know what you're talking about. :) But let's rightfully compare shall we? You just named 5 MK characters. 3 of which you are underestimating greatly to say they are completely "useless". But whatever, let's pretend those 5 characters you named are indeed useless and unviable. That's 5/28 characters, so almost 20% of the cast. Now, we know about half of the AE cast is not really tourney viable (C and D tier). That's around 20 characters on a total of 39. Yeeeaaaaah... Point made. :p

About bad matchups, I don't think you're right either. We know AE has at the very least 10 3-7 matchups. For MK9 hmm.... let's see... well's there's Shang vs CBZ/Raiden for sure. Sonya/Johnny vs Sub. What else? What other matchup is unwinnable? (serious question, I don't know tbh that's the only really bad matchups that come to my mind). Maybe there's more but I'm pretty sure most other bad matchups are 4-6 at worst.


And I agree with THTB. Capcom should've just buffed the low/mid tier characters and leave characters like Guile, Bison, Chun, Honda, Zangief and Cammy unchanged. THEN AE would've been much more interesting.

I really don't get why they nerfed guys like El Fuerte. That was kinda random considering Fuerte was already low tier to begin with.
 

Neclord

Noob
Well I bought AE yesterday and I like it so far.
And I am not even a good SF player, I had a win rate of 32% in super and a very low amount of player points, but nonetheless I have to admit, that SSF4 is a very deep fighting game and very fun to play. SSF4 was good already, and AE makes it even better with 4 new characters and a new balance. Sure the twins are strong, but people just don't know yet how to deal with them. It will take some time.

15€ for 4 new characters, new balance and new replay system isn't a bad deal imo.
 
I heard Tokido and Gamerbee aren't really enjoying AE. Hopefully that means they'll be playing more MK9 lol. :p


I like AE though. I think it's great to see more characters like Sakura, Makoto, Guy, Juri and Dee Jay. Those guys suffered in super but they finally got some love. :)
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
Same could be said about AE's stuff, ya know. :/

Name one Dan, Gouken, Oni, Hakan, Cody, Dee Jay, or T. Hawk that made top 8 at a major.
You actually named all characters that got buffed or are new in AE, and AE hasn't even had any majors yet, so that question isn't really fair.

Also Momochi was doing well at NSB I think with Cody.

I like how you think you know what you're talking about. :) But let's rightfully compare shall we? You just named 5 MK characters. 3 of which you are underestimating greatly to say they are completely "useless". But whatever, let's pretend those 5 characters you named are indeed useless and unviable. That's 5/28 characters, so almost 20% of the cast. Now, we know about half of the AE cast is not really tourney viable (C and D tier). That's around 20 characters on a total of 39. Yeeeaaaaah... Point made. :p
Name me a character and I'll either tell you a player who places in tournaments with them, or I'll explain how they buffed them in AE. Half the cast? Are you serious? You're the one who doesn't know what he's talking about.

About bad matchups, I don't think you're right either. We know AE has at the very least 10 3-7 matchups.
Please list any that you know.

For MK9 hmm.... let's see... well's there's Shang vs CBZ/Raiden for sure. Sonya/Johnny vs Sub. What else? What other matchup is unwinnable? (serious question, I don't know tbh that's the only really bad matchups that come to my mind). Maybe there's more but I'm pretty sure most other bad matchups are 4-6 at worst.
First of all, those matchups aren't even right. Sonya and Johnny both can take out Sub, and Shang vs CSZ is probably even. Shang vs Raiden might suck, but here are some 7-3 matchups for you.

Reptile vs Raiden, Kitana vs Sonya, Kitana vs Jax, Noob vs Jax, Kung Lao vs Sonya, Nightwolf vs Sub Zero, Raiden vs Stryker, Kano vs Reptile, Kano vs Sonya, Kano vs Jax, Smoke vs Shang Tsung, Smoke vs Kitana, all off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more that I'm forgetting. If you need to know why these matchups are ass, I can explain them fully.

On top of that, let's remember just how broken things like the Kabal infinite, the Kung infinite, Kano's Up Ball, and stupid stuff like that are. There's NOTHING like that in AE.


I really don't get why they nerfed guys like El Fuerte. That was kinda random considering Fuerte was already low tier to begin with.
Yeah, that was a somewhat unneeded nerf. I could see his U2 being nerfed a bit, but that's it.

On the other hand though, in this patch, NRS is making Quan Chi and Smoke both totally useless. Two characters that aren't top tier at all.
 

Zebster

How's my volume?
I want to learn, could you explain Reptile vs Raiden and Kano vs Sonya?

On the other hand though, in this patch, NRS is making Quan Chi and Smoke both totally useless.
We'll see:
@pakostevens Having trouble convincing Smoke players that he won't be bad after the upcoming patch. Can you convince them?
replies ↓
pakostevens Paulo Garcia
@ZebiaX I'm pretty sure post patch Smoke is better off. Ppl like to assume alot and whine even more.
6 hours ago
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
I'm not defending AE, but balance is overrated. To not get a game because it's not balanced doesn't make sense, but whatever.
 

EGP Wonder_Chef

Official Quan Chi Nerf Demander™
I want to learn, could you explain Reptile vs Raiden and Kano vs Sonya?
Sure.

Reptile's elbow dash punishes Teleport better than any other attack in the game, so that shuts down that option.

It also interrupts the B+3 1 2 chain AND 3 3 4 chain before the final hits, even if he cancels the 2nd hit into a teleport, the same timing will punish that with an elbow dash.

Shutting down his teleport AND both of his best chains makes that matchup just horrible. Might be worse than 7-3.

Sonya just doesn't have a great way to get in and stay in against Kano. No punish for up ball is killer of course, and she has almost no tools against his knives. On top of that, Sonya is a character that needs to pressure your opponent into standing still by using dive kicks and pressure so that she can mix up with cancels into military stance, high/low mixup, or throws, but Up Ball alone shuts down dive kicks and most of those other options.

So basically, she has a very hard time getting in, and then she still loses a lot of her options once she does get in.

We'll see:
@pakostevens Having trouble convincing Smoke players that he won't be bad after the upcoming patch. Can you convince them?
replies ↓
pakostevens Paulo Garcia
@ZebiaX I'm pretty sure post patch Smoke is better off. Ppl like to assume alot and whine even more.
6 hours ago
That's cool, I didn't see that. Hopefully they added some stuff for him, otherwise I couldn't figure out why they would say that.
 
are some 7-3 matchups for you.

Reptile vs Raiden, Kitana vs Sonya, Kitana vs Jax, Noob vs Jax, Kung Lao vs Sonya, Nightwolf vs Sub Zero, Raiden vs Stryker, Kano vs Reptile, Kano vs Sonya, Kano vs Jax, Smoke vs Shang Tsung, Smoke vs Kitana, all off the top of my head, I'm sure there are more that I'm forgetting. If you need to know why these matchups are ass, I can explain them fully.

On top of that, let's remember just how broken things like the Kabal infinite, the Kung infinite, Kano's Up Ball, and stupid stuff like that are. There's NOTHING like that in AE.
Yeah, that was a somewhat unneeded nerf. I could see his U2 being nerfed a bit, but that's it.

On the other hand though, in this patch, NRS is making Quan Chi and Smoke both totally useless. Two characters that aren't top tier at all.
it look like you are basing the match ups on who wins the fire ball battle like if there is nothing else the characters can do.
 
I'm probably the enemy here, when I say that both AE and MK9 are unbalanced, and unfair as hell. Even SSF4, and MvC3, are unfair as hell.

I'm sorry guys, I can't even take MK9 seriously, and haven't been for a long time now, I'll do what I can and come out to the gatherings to hang out with some chill people, throw down in the game for hours to support it and those that play it cause I got a lot of respect for guys that's throwing down in the game on a serious level, especially because I seemingly refuse to and thus can't. And besides that, everyone I've met through MK9 is cool, and I'll scrap with them in any fighter or any video game from other genres if they want to.(another shoutout to R.E.L. I hope you getting Diablo 3, man)

When the game first came out, it was promising, and I practiced and I was showing some potential to be good at it. Then I stopped caring, cause the core balance killed it off for me, and I just stopped practicing. I haven't even trained a single move in the game since the first week and a half it was out. And it SHOWS. Now I just get my ass beat, and keep it movin', but it's whatever.

I remember I spent so much time on the forum talking about adjusts to risk/rewards like Kung's spin, which was only a small portion of what's wrong, but the spin was the topic of discussion at the time.

The risk/rewards just don't add up, in either game. It's a complete turn off.

Even if I'm on the end of using something that's unfair, or on the favorable end of a matchup:

Just a week ago, I was sitting next to Chewstick(Steve), and we were playing Kitana vs Sonya matchup. That matchup is completely unfair, it's obvious and plain as freakin day that Chewstick put much more practice time in his Sonya and toward the game in general, than I have/did. However, he just sat there and was struggling nonstop.

That's terrible design. I didn't even want to play that way, but he insisted that I do, so he can see if there were ways around it. I purposely played as predictable as the sunrise, and it still didn't matter.

Unbalanced games, aren't competitive. It creates the ILLUSION of competition.

I can safely say that UMK3 is/was a much better game, than all of the games I just mentioned, too. It is much better than, SSF4, MK9, MVC3, and AE.

I still got some faith in MK9 though because NRS has the means to make it right, but there's some things in the game's foundation that needs to be adjusted. I mean, why in the world are completed unavoidable(crouch or whatever) strings, I'm talking all of the hits pressed out unconfirmed, safe on guard? For real? It just doesn't work for the game. Should be mindful of having to stop the series of moves short as to not be punished with going through the motions.

Slight TL;DR:

Let me stop complaining about it. The summary of my post is that, both AE and MK9 are unbalanced as hell, but NRS has the means to fix MK9 and they should hurry, if they're capable. At the moment, UMK3 is still the king MK game, without a doubt, imo.

Balance is NOT overrated. It is still underutilized. Balance =/= lack of versatility and variety, or fun.

Balance has a lot to do with fairness and options to win with varying playing styles and interpretations from characters selected.

If someone put more valuable time into a game and character, they should be the winner more times in the session, because that's what the valuable time means. Matchups should not dictate that, otherwise that is a lack of balance and poor design to create the illusion of balance and underdogs. An underdog should be the player not expected to win, winning, not the character.

No I'm not paying for AE, a game purposely made with poor design choices, because the devs think that's what some of us want(I don't).

A small aside: I think Scorpion is probably the most balanced character gameplay wise, on the whole roster.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
Unbalanced games, aren't competitive. It creates the ILLUSION of competition.
3rd Strike is arguably the most competitive fighting game, and it's not balanced at all.

I can safely say that UMK3 is/was a much better game, than all of the games I just mentioned, too. It is much better than, SSF4, MK9, MVC3, and AE.
Agreed x1,000

Let me stop complaining about it. The summary of my post is that, both AE and MK9 are unbalanced as hell, but NRS has the means to fix MK9 and they should hurry, if they're capable. At the moment, UMK3 is still the king MK game, without a doubt, imo.
Again, agreed.

Balance is NOT overrated. It is still underutilized. Balance =/= lack of versatility and variety, or fun.

Balance has a lot to do with fairness and options to win with varying playing styles and interpretations from characters selected.
It is overrated. You don't need the whole cast to able to compete in order for the game to be competitive. Again, look at 3S. A lot of the tournaments consisted of less than 5 characters. Look at UMK3. Most of the tournaments are Kabal and Human Smokes. I don't want to get into this too much, but balance isn't needed.

If someone put more valuable time into a game and character, they should be the winner more times in the session, because that's what the valuable time means. Matchups should not dictate that, otherwise that is a lack of balance and poor design to create the illusion of balance and underdogs. An underdog should be the player not expected to win, winning, not the character.
That's not true at all. Just because you put more time into practicing, it doesn't mean you should beat me because I put less time into practicing than you did. If Justing Wong put 2 weeks into a game, and you put 2 months, are you saying if Justin beats you it's the games fault? I know plenty of people who have put more time into UMK3 than I have, and they can't even win rounds on me.
 
3rd Strike is arguably the most competitive fighting game, and it's not balanced at all.
Arguably by whom? Who's saying that? I think both Tekken and VF, I mean just the latest games from those franchises, are more competitive, even by numbers especially Tekken. But you did say arguably, and that's the argument I suppose. And a game being the most competitive isn't just about it's tournament high level play shelf life either, competitive play at all levels beginner and expert.


It is overrated. You don't need the whole cast to able to compete in order for the game to be competitive. Again, look at 3S. A lot of the tournaments consisted of less than 5 characters. Look at UMK3. Most of the tournaments are Kabal and Human Smokes. I don't want to get into this too much, but balance isn't needed.
It's not overrated. It's not underrated either. Balance is however, underutilized(which was what I said), especially when you got AE being purposely unbalanced by developers own words(whether in the end it becomes that way[once the game is out there it has it's own destiny], doesn't matter).

That's not true at all. Just because you put more time into practicing, it doesn't mean you should beat me because I put less time into practicing than you did. If Justing Wong put 2 weeks into a game, and you put 2 months, are you saying if Justin beats you it's the games fault? I know plenty of people who have put more time into UMK3 than I have, and they can't even win rounds on me.
I said valuable time.

So I'm talking quality.

Whereas in my own example's case, my time meant basically, no time at all. So it was devoid of both quantity and quality.
 

Dark_Rob

Noob
Go top 8 with Baraka, Sheeva, Smoke(Post patch), Sonya, or Quan Chi (post patch), and I'll say otherwise.
Reo plays Quan Chi and I Guarandamntee he will be top 8 at ECT3, and Id bet money he will be top 3 or even win it. Ive always believed its the player that makes the character and not the other way around. But maybe Im idealistic.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Premium Supporter
It's not overrated. It's not underrated either. Balance is however, underutilized(which was what I said), especially when you got AE being purposely unbalanced by developers own words(whether in the end it becomes that way[once the game is out there it has it's own destiny], doesn't matter).
Look, I want games to be balanced, but it seems to always be player's these days top priority, which it shouldn't be. People these days care more about balance than anything else, that's why I say it's overrated. Because there's been successful fighters that haven't been very balanced.

I said valuable time.

So I'm talking quality.

Whereas in my own example's case, my time meant basically, no time at all. So it was devoid of both quantity and quality.
Doesn't matter. Some people are just better regardless of how much time they put into the game. You do get better by practicing, but your skill isn't directly correlated to how much you practice. What I'm saying is, you don't measure your skill level or how well you "should" do by how much time you dedicate to practicing.