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Who does Scorpion lose to?

If you are afraid of the "shut down neutral because of the threat of an instant mid anywhere on screen" the high tele will not save you as if you do not block or duck it will hit you (unless you do low profile move).

Now you are a blocking duck then you become a ducking duck...

I thought you would complain about the tele cancel my bad. :)
what? you can approach scorpion by walking forward and sporadically ducking if its a high, it limits the teleport to catching you for whiffing moves or trying to throw projectiles, anything random or YOLO will be punished.
 
what? you can approach scorpion by walking forward and sporadically ducking if its a high, it limits the teleport to catching you for whiffing moves or trying to throw projectiles, anything random or YOLO will be punished.
You can do the same with block... or not?
With block button it is even easier as you can hold forward and press R2 time to time like you would do the Down button.

It is not IJ2 where you needed to "walk-duck" (especially against supergirl lol)... or are you familiar in that method?
 

Parasurama

Dragon
Because teleport is a whiff punish, anti zoning tool. Not a jump back all game and completely shut down neutral because of the threat of an instant mid anywhere on screen. If tele is high there is counterplay, he has to be calculated about his teleports or else he can eat a neutral duck punish D2 or your choice of KB. This also allows you to actually exist in neutral without having to stand there and hold block for your life because he can hit you with a mid at any moment anywhere.
By blocking you get a full combo. It is 23 frames... Not instant but good enough for Scorpion to react to zoning. As long as it can be punished consistently.... That is what should matter.
 
By blocking you get a full combo. It is 23 frames... Not instant but good enough for Scorpion to react to zoning. As long as it can be punished consistently.... That is what should matter.
“By blocking you can get a full combo”... -_- this is the argument I always hear from scorpion players. Yes you can just block, but he also gets his meterburned teleport mixup. And yes there is an OS to punish both options but the timing of it is considerably harder to pull off online compared to the scorpion who gets to come swooping in and press RB and BAM, you get a full combo punish because you might have been a frame or two off on your punish. The amount of work the opponent has to put in to consistently punish Scorpions “fuck neutral I’m gonna get in for no work whatsoever” button is ridiculous. If you want to say fuck neutral and teleport in, you should die for it if I block. No MB mindgames, no annoying punish OS windows. It shouldn’t be up to this (soap bar in my mouth) meterburned mixup where if I miss time my punish slightly you full combo me. Either make teleport a high or get rid of meterburn on block. Ur carried if you think he needs his tele the way it is (not you personally Parasurma)
 
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Scoot Magee

But I didn't want to dash
“By blocking you can get a full combo”... -_- this is the argument I always hear from scorpion players. Yes you can just block, but he also gets his meterburned teleport mixup. And yes there is an OS to punish both options but the timing of it is considerably harder to pull off online compared to the scorpion who gets to come swooping in and press RB and BAM, you get a full combo punish because you might have been a frame or two off on your punish. The amount of work the opponent has to put in to consistently punish Scorpions “fuck neutral I’m gonna get in for no work whatsoever” button is ridiculous. If you want to say fuck neutral and teleport in, you should die for it if I block. No MB mindgames, no annoying punish OS windows. It shouldn’t be up to this (soap bar in my mouth) meterburned mixup where if I miss time my punish slightly you full combo me. Either make teleport a high or get rid of meterburn on block. Ur carried if you think he needs his tele the way it is (not you personally Parasurma)
So you want tele nerfed based on your netplay experience? We should be asking nrs to lower the input lag in low pings online.

Make it not mb on block. People will still cry.
 
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So you want tele nerfed based on your netplay experience? We should be asking nrs to lower the input lag in low pings online.
I’m just looking at this from a work standpoint. I’ve tried to nail the timing down to punish scorpions teleport every time regardless of MB, but it’s honestly hard to pull off every single time. Especially when it could happen at a random moment in a match. Compare that to scorpion, who is jumping back 6 times in a row and then casually decides to teleport and hold RB and that’s the extent of the work he has to put in to get in on me. It just feels unbalanced that he has such an easy way to get in, and the level of precision it takes to punish him for it consistently is so high. Scorpion should be punished for teleporting and being blocked, no if ands or buts. I think if they made him have to commit to MB teleport and they showed the flash on startup like in MKX that is another solution. Just not this blocked teleport follow up mind game he currently has.
 

Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
I actually play as Scorpion so I don't really have a problem punishing Scorpion with ANY character I play because I understand what he can and cannot do. I prefer local offline and understand lag input alters some things but he shouldn't be nerfed because of lag or people being too lazy to learn the matchup and just want an easy win. A SMART Scorpion who is ALLOWED to be calm and unpressured is the ONLY dangerous Scorpion. His only fast strings are 1,1 and 2,1 but both are high so easy to punish. Other stuff is only good if you have the spacing and momentum to use it. Scorpion relies on fear and momentum. True to ninja, he's all psych warfare and tricks. though. If you pressure him up close he struggles, especially when cornered because he can't get out unless you LET him by giving him space. Before anyone mentions teleport again you can EASILY hit him out of it during its startup it actually takes a bit for him to fully dissappear so you can shut it down if you are fast. I'm almost certain every character has a move or normal that can do this. Practice mode is your friend. Anyone who struggles against Scorpion should spend time playing Scorpion and get blown up for thinking the teleport is an instant win button, lol. Against inexperienced noobs? Oh god help them against ANY Scorpion, lol. But against a good player who isn't afraid and won't give the spacing to dominate them, knows how to block, and knows that you can just f'n hit him during startup and shut him down? Scorpion is easy to play sure. But win? As Scorpion you don't play characters or matchups you are always playing your opponent and trying to get in their head. Don't fear him and keep the pressure on him and he is totally boned. Doesn't take more WORK than beating any other character in most regards it takes less actually. You just need understanding of the character and that is what most people lack and why they struggle. People who understand him know how to beat him hence why he doesn't perform well at high level tourneys where pros switch to someone who can do everything can do but also be SAFE something Scorpion is the TOTAL OPPOSITE OF.
 
So you want tele nerfed based on your netplay experience? We should be asking nrs to lower the input lag in low pings online.

Make it not mb on block. People will still cry.
Do not feed the noob-troll.
Obvious low level discussion here - as most of the time.
It's a trap! :)

Scorpion player who's main play is teleport/ amp mixup to trick opponent: even bigger noob. But the game is noob too as it allows it. :)
Too many noobs in mk11. ;)

Game will be fixed: until that I recommend to learn punishing before you guys get stroke due to Scorpion. Or I dunno when the patch will come.
Maybe soon and you do not need to learn. There were rough few months if you could not punish Scorpion teleport yet... I feel you guys.
I was annoyed enough and practiced 5-10 minutes to punish it.

I still miss it 1/10 but shit happens. There are other hard to punish moves out there too. That could be easier.
 
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sub_on_dubs

Online Scrub Lord
I think the more I play this game, the less I'm in favor of Scorpion getting nerfs. He's definitely good, but also beatable. I wish his teleport wouldn't make or break the character. NRS needs to find other ways to make him viable/good that doesn't involve his teleport, but I'm not sure NRS is interested in taking other avenues. His viability is always centered around his teleport.
 
im Sorry, but hitting the MB or non MB teleport punish window on a totally YOLO scorpion tele you weren’t expecting is fucking hard. Please just get rid of MB on block, make him commit like in MKX and show the flash in startup or just make it a high... Scorpion still gets to be dumb and break neutral in a game that NRS said would be the most neutral based game yet, but he needs to use teleport to punish projectiles and whiffed moves, or else he dies for YOLOING it, that’s all I want. Scorpion should be motivated to use his brain JUST a little bit. We’ve all fought those scorpions who literally have no regard anything and just want be as toxic as possible. I think these changes will let good scorpions stay good but snuff out the toxic scorpions who deserve to be getting killed for teleporting constantly.
 
I actually play as Scorpion so I don't really have a problem punishing Scorpion with ANY character I play because I understand what he can and cannot do. I prefer local offline and understand lag input alters some things but he shouldn't be nerfed because of lag or people being too lazy to learn the matchup and just want an easy win. A SMART Scorpion who is ALLOWED to be calm and unpressured is the ONLY dangerous Scorpion. His only fast strings are 1,1 and 2,1 but both are high so easy to punish. Other stuff is only good if you have the spacing and momentum to use it. Scorpion relies on fear and momentum. True to ninja, he's all psych warfare and tricks. though. If you pressure him up close he struggles, especially when cornered because he can't get out unless you LET him by giving him space. Before anyone mentions teleport again you can EASILY hit him out of it during its startup it actually takes a bit for him to fully dissappear so you can shut it down if you are fast. I'm almost certain every character has a move or normal that can do this. Practice mode is your friend. Anyone who struggles against Scorpion should spend time playing Scorpion and get blown up for thinking the teleport is an instant win button, lol. Against inexperienced noobs? Oh god help them against ANY Scorpion, lol. But against a good player who isn't afraid and won't give the spacing to dominate them, knows how to block, and knows that you can just f'n hit him during startup and shut him down? Scorpion is easy to play sure. But win? As Scorpion you don't play characters or matchups you are always playing your opponent and trying to get in their head. Don't fear him and keep the pressure on him and he is totally boned. Doesn't take more WORK than beating any other character in most regards it takes less actually. You just need understanding of the character and that is what most people lack and why they struggle. People who understand him know how to beat him hence why he doesn't perform well at high level tourneys where pros switch to someone who can do everything can do but also be SAFE something Scorpion is the TOTAL OPPOSITE OF.
I think you’re missing the point here. MK11 was touted to be the most neutral based mk game yet, and in a lot of ways it is. Scorpion tele throws a massive wrench in all of it. Teleport is scorpions launching special move. Almost every other character in this game dies instantly for performing their launching special move on block. Scorpion doesn’t, and on top of that he can use his launching special move AS A WAY OF BREAKING NEUTRAL, and plausibly being safe if the opponent reads MB or regular incorrectly or mistimes the OS. And ok bud I’d like to see you fight a scorpion and hit him out of IA teleport startup every single time he YOLO’s you in neutral. Seems legit?
 

Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
I think you’re missing the point here. MK11 was touted to be the most neutral based mk game yet, and in a lot of ways it is. Scorpion tele throws a massive wrench in all of it. Teleport is scorpions launching special move. Almost every other character in this game dies instantly for performing their launching special move on block. Scorpion doesn’t, and on top of that he can use his launching special move AS A WAY OF BREAKING NEUTRAL, and plausibly being safe if the opponent reads MB or regular incorrectly or mistimes the OS. And ok bud I’d like to see you fight a scorpion and hit him out of IA teleport startup every single time he YOLO’s you in neutral. Seems legit?
Only the metered version launches. Both are already extremely death on BLOCK. The regular one doesn't break neutral as much as puts him back into neutral on your other side as he can't follow it up without you blocking, lol. Still very minus and dead if you block either one. Only "breaks" neutral if you are unfamiliar with MK games or what neutral means. It's a move about space control and trying to get through your opponent's defenses. The definition of neutral game. Been playing MK games (and mained Scorp) since MK1 in '92 so the fact he can teleport isn't a surprise to me. I didn't say I can nail the IATele in startup consistently (ground one is dumb easy though) but both happen to me often enough when I get reckless (or even more deadly to Scorp, frustrated) that it must actually be very very easy or most people are insanely lucky, lol. If they are constantly teleporting you should be constantly punishing free. The other Scorpions I fought online lost if the tele too much. The ones who dominated the bejesus outta me were the ones who almost never teleported, played smart, and didn't give me an easy opening to punish like teleport. Also locking me down with pressure in the corner. Scorpion has nothing for it once his wakeups are also used up. No defense meter in the corner? Dead.

My keys to victory against my own character? And if my best bud Joe is secretly in here I need you to stop reading right now. Ok Joe? Ok, here goes...

Don't fight Scorp from a distance my dude. Keep on him and lock him down. Corner him. He CAN'T teleport or even jump to IATele if you are rapidly smiting his face. Also play against his player not the character. Make them flustered. Flustered Scorp is dead Scorp. It's actually pretty easy to do against scrubby Scorps. IF your opponent is very level headed and greatly outskills you? But at that point they can pick anyone and beat you so...

EDIT: I maintain that no amp TP on block would be a small sacrifice but making it a high would ruin it as there are alot of low stance moves and projectiles that need to be punished as that is the tele's main and primary function. Mid is best. Don't over nerf because people whine. Make other chars better.
 
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Only the metered version launches. Both are already extremely death on BLOCK. The regular one doesn't break neutral as much as puts him back into neutral on your other side as he can't follow it up without you blocking, lol. Still very minus and dead if you block either one. Only "breaks" neutral if you are unfamiliar with MK games or what neutral means. It's a move about space control and trying to get through your opponent's defenses. The definition of neutral game. Been playing MK games (and mained Scorp) since MK1 in '92 so the fact he can teleport isn't a surprise to me. I didn't say I can nail the IATele in startup consistently (ground one is dumb easy though) but both happen to me often enough when I get reckless (or even more deadly to Scorp, frustrated) that it must actually be very very easy or most people are insanely lucky, lol. If they are constantly teleporting you should be constantly punishing free. The other Scorpions I fought online lost if the tele too much. The ones who dominated the bejesus outta me were the ones who almost never teleported, played smart, and didn't give me an easy opening to punish like teleport. Also locking me down with pressure in the corner. Scorpion has nothing for it once his wakeups are also used up. No defense meter in the corner? Dead.

My keys to victory against my own character? And if my best bud Joe is secretly in here I need you to stop reading right now. Ok Joe? Ok, here goes...

Don't fight Scorp from a distance my dude. Keep on him and lock him down. Corner him. He CAN'T teleport or even jump to IATele if you are rapidly smiting his face. Also play against his player not the character. Make them flustered. Flustered Scorp is dead Scorp. It's actually pretty easy to do against scrubby Scorps. IF your opponent is very level headed and greatly outskills you? But at that point they can pick anyone and beat you so...

EDIT: I maintain that no amp TP on block would be a small sacrifice but making it a high would ruin it as there are alot of low stance moves and projectiles that need to be punished as that is the tele's main and primary function. Mid is best. Don't over nerf because people whine. Make other chars better.
Yes, the amplified version only launches, like all other special launchers. And you’re avoiding the point again here. Yeah, both options are death on BLOCK, but the problem is he gets OPTIONS. If I block a random teleport, I shouldn’t have to make a follow up guess, or have to worry about punishing multiple options at once with precise timing. It should be a clean punish period, if he wants to void neutral and immediately get in, it should be ABSOLUTE death on block. And I know you’re gonna say it is absolute death because “both options are punishable”, but again that’s just missing the point. He shouldn’t be able to make you second guess, or complicate your punish due to an amplification threat. And another point on this whole “just block his teleports” thing that scorpion players like to say. What you’re really saying is, “just concede the neutral to me because I have this teleport and play my game”. No matter how you slice it, everyone has to play scorpions game because of this one move. And I’m obviously not saying just get rid of it because it’s scorpions staple move and that’ll never happen, but he should be absolutely dead for getting blocked because it’s very existence is so game dictating.

And it really doesn’t matter whether you are fighting a good scorpion who uses teleport sparingly or not. Teleport is an omnipresent threat when you fight him, I might be fighting a skilled scorpion who plays more safely and uses
it at more precise moments, but that doesn’t change the fact that I’m aware he can hit me with it at any moment which forces extreme caution from me and allows him to control the pace of the match. He shouldn’t be able to condition players to block everywhere on screen because of the mere existence of his teleport. Period.

I mean literally, the definition of footsies and neutral is grappling for the positioning where your moves connect and the opponents move whiffs. This move automatically wins that battle for scorpion. No conditioning required. At least make it a no brainer punish for Christ’s sake.
 
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Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
Oh I didn't miss the point. I argued against it's validity. You are clearly ignoring the counter points and even tips in favor of begging for it to become SO braindead that they might as well just remove it. The problem ISN'T with the move. The problem is online lag messing with input timing and the ability to react to them. The problem is non-existent offline. Don't nerf a move because of online lag issues causing a problem that isn't supposed to exist in the first place. Offline the input window is tight and the difference in amped and non-amped is immediately obvious.

It doesn't "void neutral" because it defines the FGC term "neutral". It does NOT auto-win neutral because there are plenty of specials and normals that beat it outright. I'm not saying "concede the neutral". In fact, I've repeatedly told you that conceding is WHY you are losing.

It IS "ABSOLUTE death on block" and nearly braindead to defend against if done predictably anyway just SLIGHTLY less so online if they don't fix the input lags (if possible even)..
 
im Sorry, but hitting the MB or non MB teleport punish window on a totally YOLO scorpion tele you weren’t expecting is fucking hard. Please just get rid of MB on block, make him commit like in MKX and show the flash in startup or just make it a high... Scorpion still gets to be dumb and break neutral in a game that NRS said would be the most neutral based game yet, but he needs to use teleport to punish projectiles and whiffed moves, or else he dies for YOLOING it, that’s all I want. Scorpion should be motivated to use his brain JUST a little bit. We’ve all fought those scorpions who literally have no regard anything and just want be as toxic as possible. I think these changes will let good scorpions stay good but snuff out the toxic scorpions who deserve to be getting killed for teleporting constantly.
"Scorpion should be motivated to use his brain JUST a little bit."

Please no offence us.

Brainded noobs would pick another char if it was not work anymore so do not blame and punish good Scorpion players.
Not Scorpion is the issue but the players who use it wrong. Do not forget it. :)
You will not escape from the noobs but meet in another form.

I think almost all of us here agree that teleport on block should not be able to amp.
So no point of arguing anymore. :)
I hope NRS will change it. It affects competitive Scorpion the less with the biggest result!
 
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Parasurama

Dragon
“By blocking you can get a full combo”... -_- this is the argument I always hear from scorpion players. Yes you can just block, but he also gets his meterburned teleport mixup. And yes there is an OS to punish both options but the timing of it is considerably harder to pull off online compared to the scorpion who gets to come swooping in and press RB and BAM, you get a full combo punish because you might have been a frame or two off on your punish. The amount of work the opponent has to put in to consistently punish Scorpions “fuck neutral I’m gonna get in for no work whatsoever” button is ridiculous. If you want to say fuck neutral and teleport in, you should die for it if I block. No MB mindgames, no annoying punish OS windows. It shouldn’t be up to this (soap bar in my mouth) meterburned mixup where if I miss time my punish slightly you full combo me. Either make teleport a high or get rid of meterburn on block. Ur carried if you think he needs his tele the way it is (not you personally Parasurma)
I would be fine if it couldn’t be MB on block But to make it high is too much. I hear you, Scorpion players gotta do the mirror too :)
 
I would be fine if it couldn’t be MB on block But to make it high is too much. I hear you, Scorpion players gotta do the mirror too :)
yea im not saying get rid of MB AND make it a high, just one of the two. And after hearing what some of you said, i agree it should stay a mid. But to that guy who said Scorpion's teleport is the FGC definition of NEUTRAL? I'm sorry, ur deluded af. It really does take a scorpion to say that his tele is the definition of neutral, when literally every pro player, every major player in general, almost every person in this FGC, has agreed that Scorpion's power comes from this move that literally destroys neutral against almost the entire cast. But yes, no point in arguing. Taking away MB on block is almost advantageous to good scorpions, less resources wasted, no worrying about hit confirming. Scorpions shouldn't even be arguing taking away MB in the first place if they already accept that they'll die if they teleport and get blocked ;)

I guess I should modify what I want here. Buff scorpion. Get rid of MB on block, that way scorpions dont have to waste meter when they get blocked and ultimately die 100% of the time anyways. If you have a problem with that, youre validating the fact that his MB gimmick keeps him safe on blocked teleports at times. no other way around that.
 
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Matix218

Get over here!
yea im not saying get rid of MB AND make it a high, just one of the two. And after hearing what some of you said, i agree it should stay a mid. But to that guy who said Scorpion's teleport is the FGC definition of NEUTRAL? I'm sorry, ur deluded af. It really does take a scorpion to say that his tele is the definition of neutral, when literally every pro player, every major player in general, almost every person in this FGC, has agreed that Scorpion's power comes from this move that literally destroys neutral against almost the entire cast. But yes, no point in arguing. Taking away MB on block is almost advantageous to good scorpions, less resources wasted, no worrying about hit confirming. Scorpions shouldn't even be arguing taking away MB in the first place if they already accept that they'll die if they teleport and get blocked ;)

I guess I should modify what I want here. Buff scorpion. Get rid of MB on block, that way scorpions dont have to waste meter when they get blocked and ultimately die 100% of the time anyways. If you have a problem with that, youre validating the fact that his MB gimmick keeps him safe on blocked teleports at times. no other way around that.
Amp on block is absolutely dumb. Needs to go. They can go ahead and make both regular and amp more minus too. And I'm a scorp player. A good scorpion does not need gimmicks like late amp and also we expect to be full combo'd when we throw out a tp and it is blocked. That's the risk.
 

Bloodfang

The Immortal Tiger
yeah no amp on block is fine by me. won't make any difference as nobody is relying on that to win because it's not that big of an advantage against anyone who's played an MK before this one. Also yeah I actually do sometimes hit the mb button on habit even when it's blocked and spend meter when I don't want to AND still get punished for it because they were blocking, lol. But that's really my own dumb fault and I deserve it everytime it happens. And yes the pros and major players say teleport is his best move because it is. It's also an awesome neutral tool. But breaking it or being an instant win button? If that were the case Sonic Fox and others would all be Scorpion mains if it was really as OP and mandatory nerf fodder as most are whining about. If Scorpion breaks tne game why do his mains switch to Sonya when it really counts? Because it's undeniably great but not in itself a game winner, that's why. It's too easy to defend and punish just like EVERYTHING else Scorpion does. The fact that he's indeniably the best he's ever been (despite the shitty nerf to his iconic spear) doesn't change the fact he's still high-risk high-reward but the other S-tier are lower risk same-or-higher reward.