What's new

Who does Arrow lose to?

SonicNinja3532

The Wannabe Prodigy
If you can't corroborate your answer don't even bother.
From what I understand fate is his worse matchup. His fireballs out damage, are faster and hit mid which stops him from low arrowing, and because he needs to load arrows it makes it dangerous to do so because its basically a free hit. I imagine when fate traits up he get fucked too, and I dont think he has an answer to the orb.

I don't play either so take it with a grain of salt but that's the reasons I see him losing , someone else can probably give a better reason than me.
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
From what I understand fate is his worse matchup. His fireballs out damage, are faster and hit mid which stops him from low arrowing, and because he needs to load arrows it makes it dangerous to do so because its basically a free hit. I imagine when fate traits up he get fucked too, and I dont think he has an answer to the orb.

I don't play either so take it with a grain of salt but that's the reasons I see him losing , someone else can probably give a better reason than me.
How bad is it supposed to be? Just loses or a real struggle?
 

Ram

Buluc Chabtan
I think Cyborg does well against him too. Borg's fireballs are mids. Fullscreen, Arrow will get out-damaged so he has to work his way in and corner Cyborg, as well as try and win out on ice arrow trades. But sticking to just fire arrows isn't a good strategy in this case
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
I think Cyborg does well against him too. Borg's fireballs are mids. Fullscreen, Arrow will get out-damaged so he has to work his way in and corner Cyborg, as well as try and win out on ice arrow trades. But sticking to just fire arrows isn't a good strategy in this case
Won't electric arrows do well in this MU?

Sent from my Quantum Computer using TYM Quantum App
 

SonicNinja3532

The Wannabe Prodigy
How bad is it supposed to be? Just loses or a real struggle?
Real struggle I think, I've heard it as a 7-3. He has to get in instead of keepaway, and its not like he has really strong rushdown so if theres a big life deficit hes essentially fucked.
 

CalebHara

FoghornArmhorn
Honestly, no GA player I have faced has tried a 100% electric arrow approach. But the chip damage alone from Cyborgs fireballs would keep up or out-damage electric arrow damage imo
Electrics don't do enough damage for GA to be able to trade projectiles. They're fast enough to maybe land an occasional non-trading hit, but with the lack of knockdown you run the risk of giving up the impetus, and once cyborg starts firing consistent projectiles it's kind of erroneous to do anything but try to get in.
 

CalebHara

FoghornArmhorn
If you can't corroborate your answer don't even bother.
He loses to anyone that he has to get in on indefinitely I think. Mostly the cats in the cast that have mid hitting projectiles of decent speed. Fate and WW are his worst IMO, followed by cyborg, but I think a strong case could be made that he loses to Aquaman, Ivy, and Firestorm too. I've had considerable trouble against good ones in the past, though Ivy and FS aren't as painstaking once distance is closed.
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
He loses to anyone that he has to get in on indefinitely I think. Mostly the cats in the cast that have mid hitting projectiles of decent speed. Fate and WW are his worst IMO, followed by cyborg, but I think a strong case could be made that he loses to Aquaman, Ivy, and Firestorm too. I've had considerable trouble against good ones in the past, though Ivy and FS aren't as painstaking once distance is closed.
Why the hell do you need to go in on Wowo?! You can just run away and chip her with fire arrows and MB arrow all day long.
 

CalebHara

FoghornArmhorn
Why the hell do you need to go in on Wowo?! You can just run away and chip her with fire arrows and MB arrow all day long.
Can't really be all day long, it isn't like WoWo has to get all the way in on him. She only has to get into shield toss range, at which time she gains the initiative. He doesn't have a reliable backdash option to escape back to his comfortable range, he can savage blast, but savage blast gets clipped by shield toss 9/10 times, with no risk of repercussion. So you can try to go in, but then you fall victim to WoWo's normal range and pressure, both being better than GA's. Corollary, I've never seen a WoWo have a difficult time getting into that shield toss pocket. From afar, fire arrows can't hit for overheads, electric arrows do no damage and require a reload every two. Boxing glove arrows only work when you've got the meter to spend.

Mind you, I might be biased because I play a super hipster rushdown GA, but this matchup is a nightmare, even when I have tried to use the ol' flaming phallice's in the past.
 

Braindead

I want Kronika to step on my face
You are playing it wrong
Can't really be all day long, it isn't like WoWo has to get all the way in on him. She only has to get into shield toss range, at which time she gains the initiative. He doesn't have a reliable backdash option to escape back to his comfortable range, he can savage blast, but savage blast gets clipped by shield toss 9/10 times, with no risk of repercussion. So you can try to go in, but then you fall victim to WoWo's normal range and pressure, both being better than GA's. Corollary, I've never seen a WoWo have a difficult time getting into that shield toss pocket. From afar, fire arrows can't hit for overheads, electric arrows do no damage and require a reload every two. Boxing glove arrows only work when you've got the meter to spend.

Mind you, I might be biased because I play a super hipster rushdown GA, but this matchup is a nightmare, even when I have tried to use the ol' flaming phallice's in the past.
I don't think I am. I don't struggle in this MU but it feels even at best for Wowo. She has to play catch up most of the match and you can slide punish most of her shield tosses unless MB'ed so she can't use them freely. Your arrows are safe as well so it's not like you're taking a risk.

Also GA's normals are pretty good it's not like he can't challenge her when he's up close. And she doesn't have a strong oki game to keep him locked down.
 

Skedar70

Noob
I don't think I am. I don't struggle in this MU but it feels even at best for Wowo. She has to play catch up most of the match and you can slide punish most of her shield tosses unless MB'ed so she can't use them freely. Your arrows are safe as well so it's not like you're taking a risk.

Also GA's normals are pretty good it's not like he can't challenge her when he's up close. And she doesn't have a strong oki game to keep him locked down.
I'm just trolling with you I think he outzones her. I think Grodd might beat him though. Green arrow needs time to reload his special arrows or else his zoning means nothing. During his reload breaks Grodd has enough time to activate his trait and the inmmunity which makes his zoning completely worthless. Grodds leap can capture green arrows savage blast so its not like he can spam it. Also the meterburned stampede has armor that can help grodd get through his zoning when out of trait. When in trait with projectile inmmunity grodd has a lot of time to stampede cancel in neutral and build at least a bar. Up close grodd has the uperhand.
 

CalebHara

FoghornArmhorn
Huh? He does a really good job of zoning FS in my experience
One of us is playing it wrong then, probably me. The way I see it is GA wins a fireball war ducking projectiles, but doing anything but move in within molten trap range isn't great. He out damages trades, but on his clean hits he gets like 80 damage, FS gets up to 400.
 

The_Tile

Your hole is mine!
One of us is playing it wrong then, probably me. The way I see it is GA wins a fireball war ducking projectiles, but doing anything but move in within molten trap range isn't great. He out damages trades, but on his clean hits he gets like 80 damage, FS gets up to 400.
Its pretty easy for Arrow to stay at full screen range though due to savage blast and even if FS gets close enough to MT he can't actually trade properly because the arrow hits him before he has time to MB. Savage blast also makes it difficult to hit him with MT anyway as he's airborne
 
He used to lose to Deadshot because of trick shot/ low rifle. Aquaman does very well because he can go chip for chip with FTD and he has way better buttons in the mid-range I remember having a lot of trouble in that MU early on. I imagine Hellboy probably does pretty well against GA because he's always one leap away from mixing. I'd bet Enchantress can force GA to come to her for the most part too, she also has better range on her buttons.
 

CalebHara

FoghornArmhorn
Its pretty easy for Arrow to stay at full screen range though due to savage blast and even if FS gets close enough to MT he can't actually trade properly because the arrow hits him before he has time to MB. Savage blast also makes it difficult to hit him with MT anyway as he's airborne
Personally I've never found it to be easy, any good firestorm I've played eats my soul with fireballs and well timed air-dashes if I get too willy nilly with savage blast. The full screen freedom GA can achieve lasts until FS dashes forward once or twice, then its back to a rock paper scissors match. One in which Ollie's clean hits do 80, FS's do potentially 400+. Yes, he out-damages trades, but that can only last so long, he has to constantly reload his long distance damage source.

His standard arrows are an annoyance at most, if you clip me with a molten trap and I clip you before you can MB it, the trade is more beneficial to FS.

Savage blast isn't the grim reaper scythe against FS it is in other matchups. Throwing it out anywhere that isn't up close puts GA at risk while presenting no offensive threat to FS. Even up close it doesn't get the mileage it used to - his B3 shuts it down like its a prohibition era brewery. But again, this is just how I've always seen it and I could be miserably misinformed because I stubbornly play GA more rushdown than most.
 
He used to lose to Deadshot because of trick shot/ low rifle. Aquaman does very well because he can go chip for chip with FTD and he has way better buttons in the mid-range I remember having a lot of trouble in that MU early on. I imagine Hellboy probably does pretty well against GA because he's always one leap away from mixing. I'd bet Enchantress can force GA to come to her for the most part too, she also has better range on her buttons.
I just very recently started using GA again and played a few enchantresses the other day. It's not a ton of fun. Luckily Aquaman is my main so I can always switch and that matchup is a lot better.