Who are the easiest characters to use in MK11?

[Eonfuzz]

They are not major tournament. Go check the major tournament list again. You can check the prize money as well. Almost all majors Prize money for first place is 10k+.
And again Sub Zero didnt win a single tournament. His best placing is top 8 in online tournament, and top 24 in the CEO, thanks to Daddy.

You understand how stupid its sound to say someone place 1 with Sub Zero, when he did not used that character or you missed the video of the Grand Final of the tournament you said Sub Zero placed 1 there, yet Foxy plays Kung Lao, through the whole tournament, except 1 set he lost with Sub Zero?

Again you didnt answer my question, at the EVO in the bracket SonicFox used Cetrion against Liu Kang player, in just 1 match, does that mean Cetrion places 1st at the EVO, when SonicFox played Cassie entire tournament and she was his main.

Another question for you, if SonicFox or Scar or any pro decide to use every character in the roster in 1 tournament and won it, does that mean, entire roster placed 1 in that tournament?

And again if we are to look small local tournament and online events, where 99,99% of the pro player are missing, Kollector is multiple time top 8 character.

BTW i dont even call Dazzy a Liu Kang player, and not put him in the sum, even tho he play 1/3 of his matches with Kang.

Sub Zero doesn't deserve to be good when all he relies on is unga bunga 50/50s. Get rid of his MKX gameplay and then we can start talking about a balance pass.

And earlier you said Sub Zero doesn't have any long range pressure? He doesn't need any? He shuts down ANY ranged pressure and forces them to come to him.

 

[Arqwart]

Sub Zero doesn't deserve to be good when all he relies on is unga bunga 50/50s. Get rid of his MKX gameplay and then we can start talking about a balance pass.

And earlier you said Sub Zero doesn't have any long range pressure? He doesn't need any? He shuts down ANY ranged pressure and forces them to come to him.

The problem with removing Wubalubasubdub's 50/50 game is that would basically delete him from the game. That's his ENTIRE shtick that he was clearly built around.

 

[Eonfuzz]

The problem with removing Wubalubasubdub's 50/50 game is that would basically delete him from the game. That's his ENTIRE shtick that he was clearly built around.

That's why I said they need to remove his flat earther mixups, and then a balance pass needs to happen.
Too many characters in MK11 rely on simple flowchart gameplay ie: Jax, Kabal and Sub.

And honestly, the game would be better off for it.
A special place in hell is reserved for anyone with > 140 ping and /or wifi that plays Sub Zero online.

 

[NaCl man]

Does the safe os work on both of subs 50/50 options?

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Does the safe os work on both of subs 50/50 options?

Yes it does

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1171486321941942274

In raptors video it shows B32xxiceball working

If anyone wants to try it Sonic asked him the easiest way to do the OS and he said:

1. It doesn't work on single hitting pokes or normals. Has to have two hits oR more.
And

https://twitter.com/i/web/status/1171529450741125120

For Sub Zero both:
F24 and B32xxDF1 Work.

Ultra David says there is counter play to the would be broke OS's but I have no clue what that would be for Subs.
For Sonya if she did B12(4)3(R2) OS every time to stay safe B12 is -9 and full combo punishable.

 

[NaCl man]

Yes it does
F24 and B32xxDF1
Ultra David says there is counter play to the would be broke OS's but I have no clue what that would be for Subs.
For Sonya if she did B12(4)3(R2) OS every time to stay safe B12 is -9 and full combo punishable.

Wow so a throw that leads to Oki and safe 50/50 . Can he get a full combo off both with ice ball?

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Wow so a throw that leads to Oki and safe 50/50 . Can he get a full combo off both with ice ball?

Every other OS allows special cancel But I don't think Sub can do F2xxFreeze because the OS only works on two hit strings or more

Cassie can do:
B2(L2)4(DB1)

• on block it does B2 only
• on hit it does the 4xxDB1 launcher.

We won't even talk about her Auto Shimmy

Scorpion can do:
F3(1)2(Teleport)

• F3 comes out on block
• F32xxHell Port comes out on hit

Sub Should be able to do:
F24 OS
B3(L2)2(Ice Ball) OS

Sub still gets F24 KB and is safe on block.
And B32 ice ball becomes an OS you don't have to hit confirm. But these are pretty hard to do.

 

[lordlosh]

Sub Zero doesn't deserve to be good when all he relies on is unga bunga 50/50s. Get rid of his MKX gameplay and then we can start talking about a balance pass.

And earlier you said Sub Zero doesn't have any long range pressure? He doesn't need any? He shuts down ANY ranged pressure and forces them to come to him.

How hard is to just read my entire post, not just jump on conclusion based on 1 sentence.
I already said that i prefer they remove or make his OH 25+frame so all the low-mid-high skilled player to be able to react to them, but just like Arqwart said you can delete the character right there, he has nothing else.
He needs totally reworks.
But there is plenty of other 50/50 in the game, with a lot stronger case being a lot harder to defend against.
Against Sub Zero if you know what you are doing, you are going to neutralise a lot of attempts to do dmg.

 

[Eonfuzz]

How hard is to just read my entire post, not just jump on conclusion based on 1 sentence.
I already said that i prefer they remove or make his OH 25+frame so all the low-mid-high skilled player to be able to react to them, but just like Arqwart said you can delete the character right there, he has nothing else.
He needs totally reworks.
But there is plenty of other 50/50 in the game, with a lot stronger case being a lot harder to defend against.
Against Sub Zero if you know what you are doing, you are going to neutralise a lot of attempts to do dmg.

How hard is it to read my entire post, not just jump on conclusion based on 1 sentence.
I said get rid of his 50/50's and then do a balance pass mate. Not hard to read.

Oh hey look, a strawman argument. Was I talking about other characters? I don't think I was.
The fact is that Sub Zero is kowabunga as heck and needs to be changed. Just like Lui Kang and friends.

Tell me lordlosh, what is there to do after a his + advancing kick? Is there an easy way to neutralise the mixup after that?

 

[lordlosh]

We are talking about his F4(Brutal Kick) ? There is plenty of option to counter that move, and its not even hard.

 

[Eonfuzz]

We are talking about his F4(Brutal Kick) ? There is plenty of option to counter that move, and its not even hard.

Can you read? I was asking what you do afterwards to neutralise the mixup, not the difficulty of countering it.

 

[LawAbidingCitizen]

Can you read? I was asking what you do afterwards to neutralise the mixup, not the difficulty of countering it.

Sub only has a few options that close up.
A fuzzy block beats all of them except throw which can be teched on reaction. But what's important to note is its actually better to counter the F4 on the way in with Flawless Block.
Despite his F2/B3 mix he isn't that scary. I'd much rather face him than Sonya honestly. He is a solid character with other good options but if you play at a high level lower level players don't have much to threaten you using Sub.
What's actually scary is his F24 OS/B32xxDF1 OS and his Wave Dash being the second best in the game.
This makes his footsie terrifying because he can be at max footsie range and threaten B1/F2/B2/F4/Shoulder/JIK/D4 and in some cases throw quickly from wavedash if you move in to reduce his options.
But I don't think lower level DOW's are very scary.

 

[lordlosh]

Can you read? I was asking what you do afterwards to neutralise the mixup, not the difficulty of countering it.

Okay let me be more clear:

From 2:00 if you dont want to watch the whole video, tho there is a very good info in there.

Tho if for some reason miss the countless opportunities to counter that move, your best bet is to jump after that, and he cant do much to you. This will cover his low attack, his OH, his throw, and the only way to hit you in that way is with his 1,2, but only the first shot will land while you are in the air and he cant combo from that. Tho he can go for D1 and that possibility counter your jumping, but again if you press jump, you will be in the air when he hit you, and he cant combo from that.
So the worst case scenario for you is to eat 20 damage.

You can also go for D1, which will beat his low, his OH obviously and most of his attack, but its a tricky, because he can also D1 or throw and there is a close call there.

Sorry but if you dont know how to deal with his F4, the problem is in you. There is like 2832362636 way to counter that move and full punish it for it.