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Who’s playing Sub?

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
I’m feeling the desire to play a lot more Injustice than I typically have and I wanna get really good with Sub and master him like I feel I did in MKX. I haven’t played Injustice much at all and I’m not that good at I2, but I feel like playing a lot.

I’m wondering who else is interested in this character, or who else can I add to play with?
 

JBeezYBabY

Mr. Righteous
I’m feeling the desire to play a lot more Injustice than I typically have and I wanna get really good with Sub and master him like I feel I did in MKX. I haven’t played Injustice much at all and I’m not that good at I2, but I feel like playing a lot.

I’m wondering who else is interested in this character, or who else can I add to play with?
I play Sub and sexified him up according to @Johnny Based Cage lol

He is a fun, defensive character, but is really hard to win against damn near most of the cast. They nerfed his based damage, which was like the ONLY thing he had that made him viable. He's not really a mixup character at all. I mean, try him to see for yourself. I know others play him differently, but from what ive gathered, hes not nearly as strong as he was in MKX
 

DDutchguy

Raiden enthusiast
They nerfed his based damage, which was like the ONLY thing he had that made him viable.
In the corner his damage is lower because refreezing with clone is no longer a thing, but his midscreen damage has GREATLY increased. I also think Sub has good mixups to work with because of his incredible J2 and DBF1 MB being a restand. He can also do stuff like J2, B2 to be +3 on block and go for a strike-throw mixup.
 
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Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
I play Sub and sexified him up according to @Johnny Based Cage lol

He is a fun, defensive character, but is really hard to win against damn near most of the cast. They nerfed his based damage, which was like the ONLY thing he had that made him viable. He's not really a mixup character at all. I mean, try him to see for yourself. I know others play him differently, but from what ive gathered, hes not nearly as strong as he was in MKX
I actually think Sub is very good. In the corner he gets a free 50/50 after every MB polar puncture restand. He still hits hard, hit confirming F22 into mb ice ball or burst on hit or block is really easy for good damage or the burst giving you good meter, the gap in between F22 and burst isn’t even that bad, it’s a trade at worst. He is hard to zone, does good damage(even if it is less), broke jump ins, good mixups in the corner, excellent corner game obviously, the second best F3 in the game, and clone is so good vs anyone without a good projectile. Sub’s actual weaknesses to me is that he has a bad back walk speed making it kind of awkward to play footsies sometimes and it’s hard to capitalize on plus frames because all of his fast buttons don’t lead to much since D1 only goes into burst on hit and has a big ass gap on block, and a terrible projectile. He just requires a lot of patience.

Regardless, even if I’m wrong and the character ends up being garbage, he’s who I like. I don’t play professionally, I just play for fun.
 

hatyr

tease out the impurities
Premium Supporter
Regardless, even if I’m wrong and the character ends up being garbage, he’s who I like. I don’t play professionally, I just play for fun.
I take the bad with the good. He is a really, really fun pressure character but his inconsistent spacing/pushback from his Ice Burst is just plain maddening sometimes. Nothing like using your +3 for a d1 check then you eat a full combo when it whiffs against certain characters. I just need more matchup awareness but it still sucks that parts of your toolkit are neutered against certain cast members.

F22 is hard for me to hit/block confirm still. Old man reactions and all that but it's something I'm constantly working on. If you're afraid of gaps being punished when canceling into an Ice Burst, I see Subs staggering that string. F22xxIce Burst, F2xxIce Burst, F2xxKlone, F2-walk up and throw, etc.
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
I take the bad with the good. He is a really, really fun pressure character but his inconsistent spacing/pushback from his Ice Burst is just plain maddening sometimes. Nothing like using your +3 for a d1 check then you eat a full combo when it whiffs against certain characters. I just need more matchup awareness but it still sucks that parts of your toolkit are neutered against cast members.

F22 is hard for me to hit/block confirm still. Old man reactions and all that but it's something I'm constantly working on. If you're afraid of gaps being punished when canceling into an Ice Burst, I see Subs staggering that string. F22xxIce Burst, F2xxIce Burst, F2xxKlone, F2-walk up and throw, etc.
I still fuck up F22 hit confirms too, it happens. The gap in F22 burst isn’t too terrible really either. I almost never go for a D1 check because of that, it sucks. All I want them to do with Sub is fix that and give us the consistent +3. I don’t MB burst as much as other Subs, I’ll save it for MB F3s if I want plus frames, or if I read a jump because Sub doesn’t have great anti airs and no way your jump beats his MB F3. And at worst if it gets blocked you get +8 without the janky inconsistencies.
 

hatyr

tease out the impurities
Premium Supporter
I still fuck up F22 hit confirms too, it happens. The gap in F22 burst isn’t too terrible really either. I almost never go for a D1 check because of that, it sucks. All I want them to do with Sub is fix that and give us the consistent +3. I don’t MB burst as much as other Subs, I’ll save it for MB F3s if I want plus frames, or if I read a jump because Sub doesn’t have great anti airs and no way your jump beats his MB F3. And at worst if it gets blocked you get +8 without the janky inconsistencies.
Yea, the gap is not bad compared to some of his other strings but I still eat a lot of MB B3s when I get tunnel vision in the middle of applying that pressure. He's still one of the funnest characters in the game imo. His corner game is so hard for some people to deal with. Feelsgoodman.
 

hatyr

tease out the impurities
Premium Supporter
@Tweedy said Sub is better than people give him credit for.
I don't disagree at all and don't think that's up-playing necessarily. A good Sub-Zero if very, very hard to deal with. It's the inconsistencies in spacing after MB Ice Burst that makes more Sub players scream THIS CHARACTER SUCKS WTF NRS PLEASE PAULO.
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
Yea, the gap is not bad compared to some of his other strings but I still eat a lot of MB B3s when I get tunnel vision in the middle of applying that pressure. He's still one of the funnest characters in the game imo. His corner game is so hard for some people to deal with. Feelsgoodman.
My view on Sub is more optimistic than most probably because I also play Fate so never have to fight Poison Ivy and characters like her. I should probably stop playing Fate though if o wanna have a better understanding of Sub.
 

GLoRToR

You're my fan if you can't stop shitposting me.
I don't disagree at all and don't think that's up-playing necessarily. A good Sub-Zero if very, very hard to deal with. It's the inconsistencies in spacing after MB Ice Burst that makes more Sub players scream THIS CHARACTER SUCKS WTF NRS PLEASE PAULO.
I don't play Sub so I can't say. I just know that he's been talking about Sub lately and since he's considered a reliable source of information by many, inviting him to this thread might be doing you guys a favour.

@REO has also been looking at Sub some I believe.
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
I don't disagree at all and don't think that's up-playing necessarily. A good Sub-Zero if very, very hard to deal with. It's the inconsistencies in spacing after MB Ice Burst that makes more Sub players scream THIS CHARACTER SUCKS WTF NRS PLEASE PAULO.
It wouldn’t be Sub without a bizarre inconsistency
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I play Sub, he is a really good char in IJ2. He is a well-rounded character, not super well-rounded but he is still versatile enough. He can be played either defensively and offensively. He can play the role of Anti-Rushdown very well, while also having very good pressure and corner game with his left/right 50/50's out of MB Polar Puncture which he can do mid-screen as well. And my personal favorite about Sub that he can do very well in IJ2 is the ability to control the pace of the match, regardless if you wanna play him offensively, defensively or both, you can use all of his tools to keep the opponent at bay and go by your own pace. In fact he can even Zone a tiny bit with Ice Klone and Ice Ball, but it's more for the pace control and for actual Zoning/space control, but it still gets the job done nonetheless, and he can combine that with shattering the Klone with Ice Burst for his Anti-Rushdown role.
 

hatyr

tease out the impurities
Premium Supporter
I don't play Sub so I can't say. I just know that he's been talking about Sub lately and since he's considered a reliable source of information by many, inviting him to this thread might be doing you guys a favour.

@REO has also been looking at Sub some I believe.
Oh, for sure. I've seen him talking about it here and on Twitter, Definitely respect his opinion and, like I said, I don't even disagree with him. Sub has some pretty glaring issues but in the right hands he is very, very hard to deal with.
 

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
I actually think Sub is very good. In the corner he gets a free 50/50 after every MB polar puncture restand. He still hits hard, hit confirming F22 into mb ice ball or burst on hit or block is really easy for good damage or the burst giving you good meter, the gap in between F22 and burst isn’t even that bad, it’s a trade at worst. He is hard to zone, does good damage(even if it is less), broke jump ins, good mixups in the corner, excellent corner game obviously, the second best F3 in the game, and clone is so good vs anyone without a good projectile. Sub’s actual weaknesses to me is that he has a bad back walk speed making it kind of awkward to play footsies sometimes and it’s hard to capitalize on plus frames because all of his fast buttons don’t lead to much since D1 only goes into burst on hit and has a big ass gap on block, and a terrible projectile. He just requires a lot of patience.

Regardless, even if I’m wrong and the character ends up being garbage, he’s who I like. I don’t play professionally, I just play for fun.
His mobility is absaultely insane too, he's got the best Fwd dash in the game
Crazy Meterbuild and great chip Dmg

I'm glad people realise how he is now and stopped the downplaying
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
His mobility is absaultely insane too, he's got the best Fwd dash in the game
Crazy Meterbuild and great chip Dmg

I'm glad people realise how he is now and stopped the downplaying
Burst builds a really good chunk of meter on block, it’s pretty nuts tbh. Even though his back walk is ass (just clone if you wanna move backwards lmao), his forward movement is nuts with his dash, MB burst, and slide.
 

IrishMantis

Most humble shit talker ever!!!
Burst builds a really good chunk of meter on block, it’s pretty nuts tbh. Even though his back walk is ass (just clone if you wanna move backwards lmao), his forward movement is nuts with his dash, MB burst, and slide.
Yeahs not really a whiff punish char he's more of a bait you to his clone
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
Yeahs not really a whiff punish char he's more of a bait you to his clone
Other than the fact that it can be done in the air, it is virtually identical to MKX clone in terms of its hitbox(maybe a little smaller in this game), both have 8 frame startup, and about the same recovery.

I think the klone it’s self was better in MKX because it by it’s self nuked about a third of the variations in the game due to the lack of powerful projectiles. Due to strong zoning and invincible wake ups, the klone I feel is weaker in this game because he doesn’t completely lock anyone out with it (even Flash isn’t totally screwed and can fight Sub, it’s not like it’s Blood God), BUT the rest of Sub-Zero’s moveset compliments the clone better in I2 so it evens out.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
His mobility is absaultely insane too, he's got the best Fwd dash in the game
Crazy Meterbuild and great chip Dmg

I'm glad people realise how he is now and stopped the downplaying
Also Slide can be a decent mobility tool too.
 

hatyr

tease out the impurities
Premium Supporter
Also Slide can be a decent mobility tool too.
I abuse this, probably too much. Can be pretty funny is some zoning matchups. There's a video of me somewhere on YouTube from Shujinkydink's Bonehawk League of me going nuts against a BB, bobbin' and weavin' with slide.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I abuse this, probably too much. Can be pretty funny is some zoning matchups. There's a video of me somewhere on YouTube from Shujinkydink's Bonehawk League of me going nuts against a BB, bobbin' and weavin' with slide.
I've just checked it out, nice stuff. Slide is indeed a good mobility tool.
 
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Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
I’m actually really happy with Sub, I don’t think he needs anything. If he got a legitimate buff it would go past the point of balance.

I just want MB DB1 to have consistent pushback. Like I spent a bar man, can I have my fuckin plus 3? Is my plus 3 too much to ask for?