Question - Sub-Zero Which Sub-Zero is Better

[LeVL uP]

No shit, you still have to make reads when your opponent is on the ground, but if you can't see how the frame advantage from a knockdown that allows you to pick your range, and safely start strings with longer start ups (B2 being a pretty notable one) without the risk of getting jabbed out of it, or even being in range AT ALL of your low starter (which you are not after the ender) isn't an advantage that affects your momentum and tempo, then you have no idea how this game works, I'm sorry, but zombie is right here, it's ok to be a casual and posting, but recognise that shit and build your knowledge, don't come in trying to school people on something that you vaguely understand, using buzzwords that you absolutely do not understand to do it.




He's a character with some very aggressive movement tools, who gets a meterless 50/50 vortex at the end of every combo, at the cost of nothing. He can quickly turn the tide of a fight off one good knockdown or even interactable, and his damage buff character trait synergises well with this.

So you (the angry guy incapable of comprehension) are going to call me a casual because you would rather hide behind a clone? Then tell me, why should I play GM angry guy? And why are you here looking for info on something you clearly know too much about with nothing to back up your source of anger?

 

[I GOT HANDS]

So you (the angry guy incapable of comprehension) are going to call me a casual because you would rather hide behind a clone? Then tell me, why should I play GM angry guy? And why are you here looking for info on something you clearly know too much about with nothing to back up your source of anger?

When did I say anything about GM? Or hiding behind clone? All I said was in response to you saying Cryomancer has excellent momentum, which is factually incorrect, and then I responded to you saying that there is no advantage given by a knockdown, which is also factually incorrect.

And it's funny that you say I have nothing to back up my statements, when I just backed up all my info with logic that you have completely ignored and keep changing the subject. Why you making my argument about GM now bro? Didn't like responding to what I actually said, which had absolutely zero to do with GM and Clones? Stick to the buzzwords, they were making you look bad enough

You do not have enough understanding of this game to be trying to school people bro

 

[LeVL uP]

When did I say anything about GM? Or hiding behind clone? All I said was in response to you saying Cryomancer has excellent momentum, which is factually incorrect, and then I responded to you saying that there is no advantage given by a knockdown, which is also factually incorrect.

And it's funny that you say I have nothing to back up my statements, when I just backed up all my info with logic that you have completely ignored and keep changing the subject. Why you making my argument about GM now bro? Didn't like responding to what I actually said, which had absolutely zero to do with GM and Clones? Stick to the buzzwords, they were making you look bad enough

You do not have enough understanding of this game to be trying to school people bro

And who did I school? I asked for people to try him out. You came in in rage mode like I took a huge deuce on info you gave... info I have yet to see. You're just here looking around and trying as hard as you can to make me look like some guy who just plays the game for the hell of it, instead you sound like one of those elitists who say there is only one way to play and that's why you fail lol. I once thought SZ needed buffs but I was wrong. Im sorry if you dont see it that way. Get you some more play time in then we'll talk again

 

[I GOT HANDS]

Love the revisionist history.

Blocking/interrupting strings is not to hard to do, but when you do, the momentum is all in your hands.

Ok... SZ CM hits hard witch creates a fear factor from any character. Once your opponent gets the oh sh!t face is when momentum is created.

These were your statements. They are factually incorrect and you are using the word momentum wrong. My first post was pretty mild explaining it

Spoiler

Every single one of them ends in a nuetral reset, absolutely killing any "momentum". Damage numbers does not = tempo and momentum, stop using buzzwords that you don't understand. Cryomancer is a footsies based character and he actually has the LEAST momentum of any character in the game with a neutral reset at the end of every single combo.

But you ignored this and decided instead to start saying we must all have timid play styles and trying to school people on the block button and posting day 1 combos, as if we didn't already know, or as if it does ANYTHING to prove that Cryo has good "momentum". And then spreading more misinformation on top of it; here

And I hope you dont think leaving a char on the ground after a combo is an advantage, meter or no meter. Standing or on the ground are all the same, they both perform wake ups and they still have to guess. You just have to able to outsmart the oppenent who is showing you how he/her plays

You don't understand the words you are using, and you think because you recently discovered the block button, that the rest of the game has not. I didn't say a single bad thing about Cryo in response to what you said, just pointed out the MASSIVE holes in your statements and descriptions of game mechanics, to which you've just ignored and responded with off topic nonsense.


Stop being a twat.

 

[LeVL uP]

Love the revisionist history.




These were your statements. They are factually incorrect and you are using the word momentum wrong. My first post was pretty mild explaining it
But you ignored this and decided instead to start saying we must all have timid play styles and trying to school people on the block button and posting day 1 combos, as if we didn't already know, or as if it does ANYTHING to prove that Cryo has good "momentum". And then spreading more misinformation on top of it; here



You don't understand the words you are using, and you think because you recently discovered the block button, that the rest of the game has not. I didn't say a single bad thing about Cryo in response to what you said, just pointed out the MASSIVE holes in your statements and descriptions of game mechanics, to which you've just ignored and responded with off topic nonsense.


Stop being a twat.

What holes? What is momentum? Being that i play sports and quite a few fighters I would like to believe that I know what momentum is. In my would its when you quickly mentally exhaust your opponents hopes and dreams while salting the wounds or by definition, build energy. Is that incorrect or does it have different meaning in your life?

 

[LeVL uP]

50/50 determine the outcome of just about everything in mkx. Am I wrong? When I use a certain combo, you the oppenent, is more likely to react by defending yourself from a repeat of the possibility of losing that much health again. Am I correct? Therefore... momentum. Or are you going to mash out a shielded ex after I leave you standing? Same if I were to leave you on the ground, correct? You could just noob it and try to mash out but I doubt that someone with your skill would take such a risky chance at ending up in a health losing situation. My momentum.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

50/50 determine the outcome of just about everything in mkx. Am I wrong? When I use a certain combo, you the oppenent, is more likely to react by defending yourself from a repeat of the possibility of losing that much health again. Am I correct? Therefore... momentum. Or are you going to mash out a shielded ex after I leave you standing? Same if I were to leave you on the ground, correct? You could just noob it and try to mash out but I doubt that someone with your skill would take such a risky chance at ending up in a health losing situation. My momentum.

This is better. Now you are actually talking logic, now we can have a discussion.

And sure, that might be the case. But whatever options you have, after the neutral reset ,you have more after a knockdown. After a knockdown you have free frames to position yourself wherever you want, and then some. So as opposed to the reset, you get a bunch of other options that your opponent doesn't have. You mentioned 50/50s, for starters, you can actually be in range to do one after a knockdown, but not after neutral reset. Throws too, basically any normal can be timed to hit right as they wake up , avoiding the risk of start up frames. Sure, they can wake up special, but as you said, that's an option they have after a neutral reset as well, you gotta read it and use your block button. Basically, the neutral gives you less options and your opponent more. This is the opposite of a lot of other characters. Cryomancer has some definite benefits that Grandmaster does not, but momentum and tempo is not one of them. That is not one of Cryos strengths, he plays footsies and finds his openings, and punishes the hardest. This is balanced out by the fact that he actually has the least options to get in of all 3 variations, and actually sacrifices momentum in the ender, that is the trade off. What you seem to be talking about is mentally pressuring your opponent, which is probably slightly more accurate through the bigger damage but still not exactly a massive strength he has in comparison to other characters either

 

[LeVL uP]

This is better. Now you are actually talking logic, now we can have a discussion.

And sure, that might be the case. But whatever options you have, after the neutral reset ,you have more after a knockdown. After a knockdown you have free frames to position yourself wherever you want, and then some. So as opposed to the reset, you get a bunch of other options that your opponent doesn't have. You mentioned 50/50s, for starters, you can actually be in range to do one after a knockdown, but not after neutral reset. Throws too, basically any normal can be timed to hit right as they wake up , avoiding the risk of start up frames. Sure, they can wake up special, but as you said, that's an option they have after a neutral reset as well, you gotta read it and use your block button. Basically, the neutral gives you less options and your opponent more. This is the opposite of a lot of other characters. Cryomancer has some definite benefits that Grandmaster does not, but momentum and tempo is not one of them. That is not one of Cryos strengths, he plays footsies and finds his openings, and punishes the hardest. This is balanced out by the fact that he actually has the least options to get in of all 3 variations, and actually sacrifices momentum in the ender, that is the trade off. What you seem to be talking about is mentally pressuring your opponent, which is probably slightly more accurate through the bigger damage but still not exactly a massive strength he has in comparison to other characters either

Not exactly a massive strength is correct. It will depend solely on the player to be able to adapt the their opponent. I think his strengths are on par with the rest of the roster... minus the masterbaiters/teleporters.

 

[I GOT HANDS]

You do not know enough about this game to be posting about how it works. Not trying to be rude, just being honest.

Pretty much every single teleport character is mid or low tier (Scorpion, Ermac, Mileena, Takeda, Jason, Possessed Kenshi, Displacer Raiden, Imposter Shinnok) with the exceptions being Kung Lao whose placing has NOTHING to do with his Teleport, and Tanya who has a very less than standard TP. You have set off a million "casual as hell" tripwires, not least of which thinking teleport characters are OP or have an inherent advantage.

You are misusing terminology all over the place, and your understanding of mechanics such as knockdowns, advantages, and how everything is relevant to the rest of the cast, is seriously misinformed or unknowledgable.

Just... Stop posting for a while and study/read/lurk up. For your own sake. Otherwise this is going to happen in every thread where you try to tell people how this game works.

 

[LeVL uP]

You do not know enough about this game to be posting about how it works. Not trying to be rude, just being honest.

Pretty much every single teleport character is mid or low tier (Scorpion, Ermac, Mileena, Takeda, Jason, Possessed Kenshi, Displacer Raiden, Imposter Shinnok) with the exceptions being Kung Lao whose placing has NOTHING to do with his Teleport, and Tanya who has a very less than standard TP. You have set off a million "casual as hell" tripwires, not least of which thinking teleport characters are OP or have an inherent advantage.

You are misusing terminology all over the place, and your understanding of mechanics such as knockdowns, advantages, and how everything is relevant to the rest of the cast, is seriously misinformed or unknowledgable.

Just... Stop posting for a while and study/read/lurk up. For your own sake. Otherwise this is going to happen in every thread where you try to tell people how this game works.

Here we go again. Who said teleporters were op? I know they'll see this thread and think they're king shit u ntill they get themselves baited into getting severely punished. Don't think to hard fella, I think you might hurt yourself.