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Which Kano's tourney legal loadouts do you want/think we're going to get at some point after EVO?

CriticalDrop

Beers, grabs & dropped combos
Well, it is likely that we're to get some new tourney legal variations at some point in the second half of the year, possibly along with the highly anticipated patch after evo.

So, while we are waiting for them, let's discuss about which loadouts do we want and think would be more efficient, and which ones do we believe we're going to get. Feel free to tell us about the custom variations you're currently using and if you'd like to see them being tourney legal.

In my case, I'd like to get a combo focused variation, with snake bite and manhandled. I'd miss lumbar check, but it gives you access to F4xxsnake bit, a powerful tool for mixups, and would enhance the combos menu for Kano. Another option is Snake bite + lumbar check, mainly because the 50/50 game between d1xx lumbar check and d1xxsnake bite would be really scaring.

As for which variations I think we're getting, I believe that they will try to implement most of the remaining unused tools. Probably, they'll give us some cybernetic themed loadout, with optic-blast, bio-magnetic push and, perhaps, vege-mighty. It will be a decent zoning/anti-zoning variation, with a good control of space. I've given it a try, and it seems really fun.

In addition to this, I think they will fix dirtbag variation, as it is really inefficient and underused in its current state. I don't believe they are planning to leave it this way and It's pretty likely that they will buff the startup of the molotov and the reach of chemical burn to make the variation viable.
 
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CriticalDrop

Beers, grabs & dropped combos
Snake Bite + Optic Blast

or

Snake Bite + Bio-magnetic Pull

Call it a hunch, but it's going to be one of these 100% imo.
mmmh, it's not unlikely at all. If I had to choose between those two, I'll go for Snake Bite + Bio-magnetic Pull, no doubt. I haven't test this combination but it seems to have some potential.
 

Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
What sucks is that I sadly don't think they could make a variation that would help Kano as much as the combination of both Manhandled and Lumbar Check.

More damage with Snake Bite is good and all, but without a way of opening people up like staggers, it's going to still be really rough for Kano tbh.

I just hope they make the character fundamentally better first.
 

CriticalDrop

Beers, grabs & dropped combos
Yeah, of course, that's for sure. For now, I cannot think of a better loadout for Kano than ripper (perhaps snake bite + lumbar check, but I'm not sure about it). But regardless we get buffs or not, sooner or later we will have new variations on the table. So, I thought it could be fun to speculate about which could it be the next loadouts added and their potential, and a good pretext to discuss about custom moves and combinations.

Edit: Sorry, I cited the wrong post, I was replying to your post @Circus
 
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lionheart21

Its Game Over, Man
Premium Supporter
Going full cybernetic seems to be the best bet right now. Really wanna see what kinda dirt that Kano could potentially have with Bio-Magnetic Pull.
 

kantboy-2

Ripper
If they want to make Kano viable, Manhandled should be made a base move and not added to load outs.

Snake Bite works wonders with Bio Trap; it creates spacing, you can throw it between knife tosses and if you land knives or Snake Bite while they're in the trap you add DoT into the mix.
 

MagicMan357

"Change the game for online lag" - TYM
  • Snake bite,Vege-might/manhandled/lumbar check are all good together
  • Mag-pull,chem toss,lumbar (this one is super fun)
  • Mag-trap,lumbar,Rack off (crazy pressure)
  • optic blast,mag pull,chem toss
Pick anyone of them. I also think they should buff molotov, it would really make kano a1
 

CriticalDrop

Beers, grabs & dropped combos
If they want to make Kano viable, Manhandled should be made a base move and not added to load outs.

Snake Bite works wonders with Bio Trap; it creates spacing, you can throw it between knife tosses and if you land knives or Snake Bite while they're in the trap you add DoT into the mix.
Sounds good!! I forgot that snake bite leave the knifes in the other char's body, this way the combination makes way more sense.
If I remember well, the custom moves remaining unused are optic blast, bio pull, bio trap and snake bite. Optic Blast doesn't make much sense combined with bio trap, as we lose options for PoD and bio trap already makes knife toss a mid, so optic blast would be basically useless... Consequently, I think that bio trap + snake bite variation is one of the most probable to be added as tourney legal, along with optic blast+bio pull+¿?
 

KMK55

Noob
I don't think they can make Molotov cocktails much better it would be too good. They can make chem toss a bit more positive and better hitbox. Also I think the meter burn chem should hurt much more.
 
I want Manhandled to be incorporated into Kano's default kit so we can have something like Snakebite + Lumbar Check without having to give up so many useful strings.

I'd consider playing builds with Vege-mighty, Biomagnetic Pull, and Biomagnetic Trap or Snakebite + Biomagnetic Pull.
 

MagicMan357

"Change the game for online lag" - TYM
Main Summary:
this is what i dont get about kano. He has moves that other characters have but they have way better versions with a already substantial move set.

B1:
I get why they gave him this tool since its actually really busted yet it somehow finds barely any use except spacing away from the opponent off a read. One thing that made me realize how lacking it was is when we all found out that if you throw knives into a person and bio vac them, they take more damage similar to devorahs fly. But it has no other use! Why not a free combo like: b1xBioVac (knives). 2,4,MBgrab. b2. f1,2. 112xBall. More options please.

Vege Might:
WHERE ARE THE CANCELS NRS? YOU THINK WE FORGOT ABOUT MKX? Also i think this should buff optic blast somehow

Chem toss:
Chem toss is a prime example to me. First off i love using is with BioVac and Lumbar, yet the issue remains you can only reliably use it of 2,4 which is nonsense. You cant even use it off f2 or better yet f3! Give us more reasons to use the tools NRS! Why not make it -9 and allow it to be spaced out with d4 or even b1 which barely has much use.

Manhandled vs Snakebite:
This actually boggles my mind. So i actually get why you wouldnt give kano manhandled in his base move set just based off all his custom moves (which im stating are lacking) yet the issue remains...Why the hell is manhandled 1 slot but snakebite is 2? This is legit insanity because the point of snake bite is to give him constant 30% range damage yet thats the only thing when hes punish character and it doesnt even grant oki. Manhandled gives a base move combo extension and some honestly weak oki but once again it has 2 functions smh. Kanos regular 2,4,1 should just re-stand and not knock people away which i think is the main issue with him.

2,1,4:
This NEEDS to restand people and i think alot of his main issues would go down with his base kit. Think about it, were playing a punish character who can mid tier zone yet has moves like lumbar check to get in yet once again his tool set is opposite to this. Why not a simple combo set up like: 2,2xMBbioVac. b2. 1,1. 2,4,1. > micro-dash > d1xLumbar. Just simple things like that would make kano click for alot more people who seem to not use anything but d1.

Optic blast:
Just give me a buff that either makes it faster, more damage, or combos. Thats it.

Bio vac:
I personally think they thought this move was to powerful with lumbar so they made the recovery on hit very bad. Thats a huge issue because even when you juggle in the air with it, the timing for a follow up is way too hard because of it. If anything just give the regular version either less range on hit or period. The knife combo should grant a free combo on the ground with out resources, its like they forgot breakaway exist and we just spent a bar.

Molotov:
How can you have a trap function that even EB has thats long as hell but you didnt just copy kollectors, which is super fast but a small active window? It wouldnt be more broken than a character with way better normals so why not?
My main issue with this game is that they limited too much of the game mechanics while having a safe guard like breakout. They should allow mk to be mk at the highest possible level.

2,2,3:
Regular 2,2,3 needs a real purpose besides non existent oki. Allow it to rebound in a juggle. Thats it. Manhandled version needs to give more frames for a purpose to choose it.

I always think about combos for kano like this, give us variety:
  • b2. 11. 223 (rebound). 2,4,MBgrab. f3. f2xMBLumbar
  • b2. f1,2. 112xBall
  • f2xMBvege. b2, f1,2. 11. f2xBall
  • 2,4,MB grab. 3. 11. f3. f2xMolotov
  • b1xMBvege. 22xBioVac (with knives already in them). 2,4,MBgrab. f3. 112xBall
  • b2. 22xBioVac. 1,1. f2xMBSnakebite. f3. f2xMBLumbar.
ETC.
 
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Vege-mighty and Bio Trap cancel each other's use. Never use them together.

Keeps you honest, but limits you.
Call me stupid, as I've used nothing but Ripper since day one, but how do they cancel each other? One prevents jumping and adds DoT from knives. The other armors Kano Ball and can be directly canceled into the move so that once you trap your opponent you can wreck them if they try throwing something at you.

Do they share the same input or something?
 

kantboy-2

Ripper
Use Bio-trap and you can't use Vege-mighty until the chest battery returns.

Use Vege-mighty and you can't use Bio trap because you'll lose your charge when you toss the chest battery.

Honest, but limited.
 
Use Bio-trap and you can't use Vege-mighty until the chest battery returns.

Use Vege-mighty and you can't use Bio trap because you'll lose your charge when you toss the chest battery.

Honest, but limited.
I had no clue they shared a kind of resource. Thanks for the explanation.
 

CriticalDrop

Beers, grabs & dropped combos
Manhandled vs Snakebite:
This actually boggles my mind. So i actually get why you wouldnt give kano manhandled in his base move set just based off all his custom moves (which im stating are lacking) yet the issue remains...Why the hell is manhandled 1 slot but snakebite is 2? This is legit insanity because the point of snake bite is to give him constant 30% range damage yet thats the only thing when hes punish character and it doesnt even grant oki. Manhandled gives a base move combo extension and some honestly weak oki but once again it has 2 functions smh. Kanos regular 2,4,1 should just re-stand and not knock people away which i think is the main issue with him.
I don't get why snake bite is 2 slots either, but not because I regard it as a weak move when compared with manhandled, but because they made it extremely negative on block, so it already has an important drawback.
The only reason that comes to my mind is that, perhaps, the devs thought that some combinations would make Kano a mixup machine, probably something like manhandled+snake bite+lumbar check, that would give us more options in the neutral and out of some of his normals and strings. However, I don't see so much sinergy between snake bite and manhandled, and considering all his other weaknesses, I can't see any combination being game breaking.
 

kantboy-2

Ripper
Manhandled was made for Snake Bite; you can cancel F4 into Snake Bite only with Manhandled equipped. You can mix F3, F2 or finish the F4 with 3 to keep them on their toes.

There is nothing overpowered about adding Manhandled into the base move set. The only move designed to benefit from it is Snakebite and you're already paying the penalty by making it a 2 slot move.

2,2,3 and 2,4,1 should have different animations on the last hit and be available even if you have manhandled; the gap before the last hit is already bad enough that you can get punished.
 

CriticalDrop

Beers, grabs & dropped combos
Well, I gave Optic Blast+Bio-Pull+VegeMighty another try, and I really want it being tournament legal.
It has a really different flavour than Ripper and it could be a good option for some match-ups .

Some strenghts I've seen so far:
  • Decent zoning combining optic blast and up-kanoball (with vege-mighty).
  • Good anti zoning combining optic blast and Vege-Mighty (plus air-kanoball and F3, that he already has in his base move list)
  • He gains an 8 frames punisher with 11xxBio-Pull for a full combo.
  • Only one less KB than Ripper, being the new one very good (optic blast KB), better than the two we would lose.
  • Bio-Pull is a good whiff punisher and seems to have some potential as a positioning tool (I have used it to finish some combos into oki), but it would be better if it were a restanding.
  • Last but not least, it is very fun.
I have my fingers crossed in hope that NRS make it real.
 
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kantboy-2

Ripper
Bio-Pull and Bio-Trap were designed to complement Kano's knife game with Knife Toss and Snake Bite.

Bio-Trap makes knives mid or low and adds DoT.
Bio-Pull adds knife callback and additional damage for every knife pulled out.

It's like they added eye laser at the end and forgot to make it effective for the other moves.