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Which 3rd Variations Have Promise?

CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
So we've all seen the common (imo highly questionable) talking point that there are only a couple of 3rd variations which are usable at all. I happen to disagree with this, as I've seen maybe 7-8 of them used in tournament just in the last couple weeks alone.. Without even watching all of the matches in either event.

But I think to approach this objectively, we should ask every character community and kind of tally them up.

It'll probably work best if we all speak for characters we main or know the best -- so I'm going to start with my community. Jacqui's 3rd variation is more than viable. It covers some situations where she had trouble covering distance, and it gives her a whole new, highly mobile way to play the game. I'm expecting to see more and more Upgraded as time goes on.

So I nominate: Upgraded

I'd love to hear from everybody else and see what 3rd variations have been working for you. Let's do it!

Here are the combined suggestions of everyone:
  1. Fearless (Kitana)
  2. Buluc (Kotal)
  3. Avalanche (Sub Zero)
  4. Outtake (Cage)
  5. Hemorrage (Skarlet)
  6. Shaman (Nightwolf)
  7. Dark Fate (Terminator)
  8. Speed Demon (Kabal)
  9. Eternal (Geras)
  10. Beserker (Baraka)
  11. Upgraded (Jacqui)
  12. Arctic Anarchy (Frost)
  13. Dirtbag (Kano)
 
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Jynks

Jynks

some heroes are born, some made, some wondrous
Upgrade is actually ridiculous. That variation could be her strongest. The damage output and how it shuts down your opponent, is seriously powerful.
 
Vhozite

Vhozite

Waiting on SF6
I'm no expert, but I do play Jade, Kitana, and Kotal. I'm also learning Sub and was learning Frost. My .02 cents:

Jade (Untamable): Bad. Basically no reason to play this variation over Jaded. Deadly Assassin strings are cool but don't make up for losing glow to a garbage reflect and a low special with the world's most mediocre teleport on amp.

Kitana (Fearless): Good in that it's better than Fan-Fare if you want real Kitana. Bad in that Highborn is still far and away her best variation. Edenian Twist is just ok but low fan and Fan-Nado are decent zoning tools. Good addition to the game.

Kotal Khan (Buluc): This variation makes Kotal one of the few characters with 3 decent variations. I think his other two variations are better but this one is definitely not bad.

Sub-Zero (Avalance): This variation put sub on the select screen for me. Feels like Thin Ice without the mediocre extra projectiles. Trap isn't that great so far but still interesting. Definitely a good addition.

Frost (Artic Anarchy): Just as good as if not better than Ice Machine.
 
ShepherdOfFire

ShepherdOfFire

Noob
So the v3 for my characters :

Johnny Outtake : No need to explain what everyone knows. Great variation.

Skarlet Hemorrhage : My favorite new variation (it is almost the loadout is used in the beta). I've been doing great with it and the variation can fill the weaknesses Blood Drive has. The lack of blood tentacle can hurt but Krimson Shield is great and Red Mist is decent at helping ending a round when the opponent is in low health.

Cassie Sups OD: Good variation with good mobility, I like it a lot. Underestimated variation.

Nightwolf Shaman : It is a great zoning/counter zoning variation. It is better than Ancestral Gift but Matoka Warrior is still the best variation.
 
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GLoRToR

GLoRToR

Positive Poster!
Vhozite said:
I'm no expert, but I do play Jade, Kitana, and Kotal. I'm also learning Sub and was learning Frost. My .02 cents:

Jade (Untamable): Bad. Basically no reason to play this variation over Jaded. Deadly Assassin strings are cool but don't make up for losing glow to a garbage reflect and a low special with the world's most mediocre teleport on amp.
Click to expand...
Untamable has some merit, it's a footsie monster and I've gotten to the bottom of Demi God with it alone.
If its problems (Jade's problems) got fixed, like the horrible hitboxes bad frame data and overall ridiculously overnerfed nonsense, it will actually be her best variation.
These are:

B2,124 has a blowup gap right after B2.
3224 starts with a high and is literally just bad.
Her teleport is one of the slowest, a low and costs meter. lmfao. Should just be your run of the mill high teleport that launches on mb.
Divine Forces is low key the worst ranged parry in the game. It should deal damage and push away on block immediately. Be like -7 plus pushback so she can't just press buttons.

But if these issues got fixed, Untamable would be competitive with characters like Liu or Sonya.
 
L

lordlosh

Noob
Maybe its too early to tell, cause a lot of stuff will be explored later and some pro may find something really OP about some of the new variation, but so far i think Johnny is really a winner with the Outtake.
The character and Johnny players really needed this and i hope its goes untouchable.
Liu Kang new variation seems interesting, Jacqui one as well.
Not really a fan of Sub Zero new variation.
Terminator is a whole new character but i think he is crazy sick. Dark Fate in the SonicFox hands is crazy strong.
 
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Vengeance135

Vengeance135

Saltiest Joker Player
So I've been messing around with Cassie's Sups OD Variation and I must say, it definitely seems like it can be useful in some MUs. The main issue is the lack of damage.
 
Vhozite

Vhozite

Waiting on SF6
Savage8-8 said:
Subzero's third variation is no joke. People will find out soon. I played thin ice only for the slide. Now I have a special that can make his overhead safe on block and the trap. It his best variation IMO
Click to expand...
Facts safe OH for a bar is really what I like about his new variation. The Ice trap is just a bonus.
 
cashthesehands

cashthesehands

monster masher
GLoRToR said:
Untamable has some merit, it's a footsie monster and I've gotten to the bottom of Demi God with it alone.
If its problems (Jade's problems) got fixed, like the horrible hitboxes bad frame data and overall ridiculously overnerfed nonsense, it will actually be her best variation.
These are:

B2,124 has a blowup gap right after B2.
3224 starts with a high and is literally just bad.
Her teleport is one of the slowest, a low and costs meter. lmfao. Should just be your run of the mill high teleport that launches on mb.
Divine Forces is low key the worst ranged parry in the game. It should deal damage and push away on block immediately. Be like -7 plus pushback so she can't just press buttons.

But if these issues got fixed, Untamable would be competitive with characters like Liu or Sonya.
Click to expand...
I'd love if it Divine Forces switched to a held input for length, and could be amped at any time for the hit.
 
Snibbor

Snibbor

Yarrrr Matey
I only really play Kabal, and I don’t think his third variation has anything going for it over clean cut. Clean cut has a better restand imo, since it’s actually useable outside the corner without a big damage sacrifice. The launcher in the third variation, the BF2 one is ok but doesn’t add anything to his offense really except a little extra damage on BnBs. What Kabals third variation does have going for it is big damage off punishes/stray hits, but idk. I don’t think that makes up for losing a low mixup+ trading for a worse restand, his damage is already good.
 
umgogo

umgogo

The Memory Protector
Kabal Speed Demon is IMO better than Clean Cut. SD's increased damage makes a lot of difference, especially in the corner. Low Hook Grab has a fairly poor risk/reward ratio. Extended Hook is good for avoiding pesky wake-up rolls, but on the flip side, it all but ensures that the opponent will have access to Breakaway when you land a Krushing Blow/juggle combo.
 
Espio

Espio

Kokomo
Berserker Baraka is being overlooked due to Marauder but I feel like it has promise as an alternative play style for Baraka.

People often complain about Baraka struggling to get in on zoning, but this variation has great corner carry on hit and on block and when he opens you up he gets 20% damage that cannot be air escaped meterless with fantastic distance covered with Barakaserker. Whenever you block a Baraka poke in this variation you are guessing if he has going to cancel into barakaserker, if he is going to block, is he going to throw, is he going to walk back/dash back or something else and then even if you do block that right you have to guess if he's going to do serker that cannot be flawless blocked or the version that can. Lots of variables at play. It is also fantastic for closing out rounds in low health scenarios.

He additionally has safe chip, safe 50/50's and the way cancels work off things like his forward 4 ,it appears visually like a stagger but isn't when canceled into leg kebob so that can open people up and leg kebob done off of certain strings and attacks adds additional pushback so he can avoid being throw or caught in pressure cause the opponent has to physically dash or walk forward to be in range and if they whiff you can either punish or it's your turn anyway. Forward 2 l,1,2 having a flawless block gap sets up his leg kebob crushing blow for people trying to flawless block it, creating a great deterrent and mind game that can easily be in your favor since leg kebob is gapless.

He also gets meterless side switch by either ending combos in blade charge so his ability to control position and carry to the corner is potent.

Some will disagree, but I think it has great synergy and discourages mashing from the opponent which is always a win in addition to the variation having all of Baraka's other great base tools.
 
Blewdew

Blewdew

PSN: MaxKayX3
Snibbor said:
I only really play Kabal, and I don’t think his third variation has anything going for it over clean cut. Clean cut has a better restand imo, since it’s actually useable outside the corner without a big damage sacrifice. The launcher in the third variation, the BF2 one is ok but doesn’t add anything to his offense really except a little extra damage on BnBs. What Kabals third variation does have going for it is big damage off punishes/stray hits, but idk. I don’t think that makes up for losing a low mixup+ trading for a worse restand, his damage is already good.
Click to expand...
Speed demon is better than clean cut. More damage on bnb‘s, way more damage for punishes, way better corner carry and corner game in exchange for a poor mixup tool that sends your opponent fullscreen. I can‘t see clean cut being the better Variation because of a low damage punishable low.
 
Snibbor

Snibbor

Yarrrr Matey
Blewdew said:
Speed demon is better than clean cut. More damage on bnb‘s, way more damage for punishes, way better corner carry and corner game in exchange for a poor mixup tool that sends your opponent fullscreen. I can‘t see clean cut being the better Variation because of a low damage punishable low.
Click to expand...
How does he get more damage off BnBs? Like, off a 111 or a f22 hitconfirm. Unless I cash out and uses a second bar, I’m only able to do maybe 1% more damage per combo unless I start with S23. I think you’re overlooking clean cuts restand quite a bit, he can always use it to end his combos without a damage loss even mid screen unlike speed demon, meaning he never has to deal with all the defensive options the opponent has on knockdown. I’ll agree the low is very high risk, but I still find it to be a great tool to open people up despite it being punishable. People seem to always block high after they see b1 until you show you’re going to low hook a lot. I also don’t think the low hook sending them full screen is a bad thing, in all but a few MUs, full screen is where I want my opponent so I can play lame again and force a mistake.
 
Marlow

Marlow

Premium Supporter
Premium Supporter
@CrimsonShadow Can you include the character name as well in the OP next to the variation? I don't know all characters by their variations off the top of my head.
 
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