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When Should NRS Patch Mortal Kombat 11? - Podcast Discussion.

When should NRS patch Mortal Kombat 11?

  • Immediately.

    Votes: 64 55.2%
  • After EVO.

    Votes: 37 31.9%
  • At the end of the year.

    Votes: 3 2.6%
  • Whenever season 1 concludes.

    Votes: 12 10.3%

  • Total voters
    116

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
By popular demand, the podcast has finally returned. The podcast was on hiatus for a couple of months so that REO, Tom, and I could learn the basics of the game before commenting. In this episode, King Jr., who was at Combo Breaker about three weeks ago, joins the podcast in order to discuss the following topics.

00:26 - King Jr.'s Combo Breaker experience
05:28 - current state of the game and patching
26:27 - the most overrated and underrated characters
46:43 - Mortal Kombat 11's balance
50:06 - opinions on Shang Tsung
1:04:02 - fatal blows and armor
1:06:40 - "Hero of the Month" (@TrulyAmiracle) and "Fool of the Month" (@Chernyy Volk)
1:10:12 - m2dave's alleged downplaying of Noob Saibot


Please leave any feedback in this thread and vote in the poll.

@HellblazerHawkman , an article to the front page would be appreciated. Thank you.
 
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Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
The game currently need only fixes, i don't think patching is really needed right now the training mode is excelent and we can explore and find every possible answer there.
The things we can't find an answer for in general those are the things that should be fixed.
I'm havily against making balance changes this early specially after EVO, EVO is just another tournament, and honestly this game meta and pace its still being freshed as the time goes by, i would heavily advice NRS to wait for Season 1 to finish when all DLC are released and fleshed a bit then 1 month before season 2 begins start making balance changes.

Right out of the gate things that really could need some changes when a balance patch happens.
Erron's F4 amp, both moves shouldn't be safe, and amp shouldn't be able to come out if the move whiffs imo.
Same with Scorpion tele.
Geras has a 6f U2, he literally launches everything on Fblock, even d1s, he shouldn't have all this power.
Reversals are usually slower than 7f jabs, reversals should at least be equal to 7f jabs, but not that slower.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless FGC
@Tom Brady @REO @M2Dave
I'm glad you guys brought up the communities insane buff requests, specifically people asking for Liukang, Kung Lao, Noob, etc to have overhead starters. This game is so much better having focus on number of hit and staggers and I'm glad most of the characters focus on wife punishers, baiting, footsie, staggers, number of hits and normal/throw mix instead of just giving characters MKX mix em up pressure.
Some characters can use a few buffs but I don't think any characters need 50/50 as in overhead and low starters but maybe just frames slightly adjusted but most of all I think most characters can get help from just making Krushing Blows more practical and hitboxes fixed: make mids mids and highs highs.

The few who do ask for 50's are the loud minority and just the few.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless FGC
The game currently need only fixes, i don't think patching is really needed right now the training mode is excelent and we can explore and find every possible answer there.
The things we can't find an answer for in general those are the things that should be fixed.
I'm havily against making balance changes this early specially after EVO, EVO is just another tournament, and honestly this game meta and pace its still being freshed as the time goes by, i would heavily advice NRS to wait for Season 1 to finish when all DLC are released and fleshed a bit then 1 month before season 2 begins start making balance changes.

Right out of the gate things that really could need some changes when a balance patch happens.
Erron's F4 amp, both moves shouldn't be safe, and amp shouldn't be able to come out if the move whiffs imo.
Same with Scorpion tele.
Geras has a 6f U2, he literally launches everything on Fblock, even d1s, he shouldn't have all this power.
Reversals are usually slower than 7f jabs, reversals should at least be equal to 7f jabs, but not that slower.
Yes I agree we need hitbox fixes across the board and Krushing blows being more practical but I do hate certain moves and tools like:
Scorpion's Teleport stealing turns on reaction, locking up neutral fullscreen and disabling footsies.
Geras Flawless Block Launcher and Low fast projectile negating footsies.
Erron being safe after B222 SSC and F4 Amp.
Etc
But I think it can ride longer and fixing hitboxes (wiffing moves/Mids and Highs not being Highs and mids) Krushing Blows need to be evaluated (Made more practical for many) Moves hitting from behind character needs adjusted, throws pulling characters in from footsie range even on D4s need adjustment and Variations made better so characters have better tools after all that I think the game could ride long past EVO and new tech could change how we view current tiers
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Immediately need Hitboxes fixed and Krushing Blow requirements made more practical then later on down the road after EVO do stuff like tone down frames and normals or buffs.
I'd like to add Fatal Blows to this, because I don't think the way they're implemented currently makes much sense or gels with the meta/design philosophy.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless FGC
I'd like to add Fatal Blows to this, because I don't think the way they're implemented currently makes much sense or gels with the meta/design philosophy.
For ones that are strong like: Errons Jax's ect
Maybe make them projectile immune like @REO suggested but get beat by pokes and normals so they way they still have thier use and can stay fast but doesn't just run over everything.
I also feel some are just bad when compared to the average FB like Cassie, Barakas, Kotals and some are completely reactable with very short range.
 

M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
I'd like to add Fatal Blows to this, because I don't think the way they're implemented currently makes much sense or gels with the meta/design philosophy.
What would you change about them?

I personally believe the armor must be removed entirely. They already provide sufficient perks. They are usually a character's longest ranged physical attack, they almost deal 1/3rd of damage, and they cannot be broken away.
 

Juggs

Lose without excuses
Lead Moderator
Personally, I don’t think it matters what I or anyone wants as far as when the patch drops. NRS has learned a lot over the years, and I think they will release a balance patch when they deem it necessary. Now, we can predict when that will be of course. And I feel the first one may be after EVO. Or it may release with Shang, who knows?
 

TotteryManx

cr. HP Master
Immediately need Hitboxes fixed and Krushing Blow requirements made more practical then later on down the road after EVO do stuff like tone down frames and normals or buffs.
This is the best answer. Hitboxes and Kb's should be addressed first and foremost. After that, let the game breathe and see how the game changes before tweaking everyone's frame data etc.

So, immediately for hitboxes/KB's.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless FGC
Either release a hitbox fix patch with Shang or you're telling the bottom 5 to fuck off and switch chars until a potential Evo patch.

Some matchups are unplayable for chars with slow mids that at the same time get their pokes low profiled.
When competing I'm forced to use other characters and drop Kotal. It fucking sucks. Its so much easier to use 90% of the cast than Kotal and all I know is I do very well with Jax, Cassie, Scorpion, Sub Zero, Jacqui, Geras, Liu Kang, Johnny, Sonya, Kabal, Frost, Kollector but when I use Kotal it feels near impossible to win(hitboxes need fixed) and things like ducking liu kangs throw on read and wiffing with D2 is maddening. Or when Scorpion throw ducks you in from footsie range on certain moves. I don't know what they did to make throws so strong but please make mids actually mids and highs actually highs.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless FGC
What would you change about them?

I personally believe the armor must be removed entirely. They already provide sufficient perks. They are usually a character's longest ranged physical attack, they almost deal 1/3rd of damage, and they cannot be broken away.
So you want the armor gone? How about making them projectile immune only?
I like the idea of using them to get in on reads
 

Wigy

There it is...
I'd like the fatal blows to not have armour as well but the issue is that makes some of the stupid ones even more stupid relative to the rest of the cast.

Take errons fatal blow vs kotal or skarlet.

You'd ONLY see fatal blows for some characters in combos.

I agree a balance change needs to be made, and maybe I'm just playing devil's advocate but I think there's some potentially bad balance implications.

In other NRS titles fatal blows or xrays were kinda not too huge in the grand scale of balance since they were rarely ever worth the meter, they're a pretty chunky part of balance in this.

I play Frost and if we're both zoning I'll happily take trades on a life deficit cause once I'm below 30% I have a 'fuck you' button. I've won SO many games with that Kamehameha and the fear of God it puts into people

I also agree hitboxes need fixed. Krushing blows could use tweaking. Some are just obviously stupid and no amount of letting the meta settle will fix it. I think they could touch up some of the stinker alt variations. Johnny's alt variation is arguably worse than no abilities
 
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M2Dave

Zoning Master
Royal Contributor
Either release a hitbox fix patch with Shang or you're telling the bottom 5 to fuck off and switch chars until a potential Evo patch.

Some matchups are unplayable for chars with slow mids that at the same time get their pokes low profiled.
I sympathize with your frustrations, but the game neither revolves around the bottom five characters nor the top 5 characters. If you are responsible for balance, the game revolves around all the characters. If the developers are to release a patch that accurately addresses each character's strengths and weaknesses, they need to collect as much data as possible in order to avoid committing mistakes of the past such as over-buffing and over-normalizing characters.

The developers are letting the meta "play out", according to the Kombat Kast. So I am under the impression that there will be no patch for a while, which is the correct course of action for the game long term. However, I would love to see a patch that fixes hitboxes and changes some of the impractical krushing blows.

So you want the armor gone? How about making them projectile immune only?
I like the idea of using them to get in on reads
I guess you could, but I am not sure I see the point. Fatal blows hit no farther than footsies range, where projectiles are generally never used in this game. Characters such as Erron Black and Jax have abnormal fatal blows, which are so fast they are able to punish or interrupt projectiles without any armor. Think about the matches you have played or watched recently. How many fatal blows were used to punish projectiles? From my personal experiences, almost none. They are used randomly to undermine footsies, which is precisely what the community detested about Mortal Kombat X.
 

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
What would you change about them?

I personally believe the armor must be removed entirely. They already provide sufficient perks. They are usually a character's longest ranged physical attack, they almost deal 1/3rd of damage, and they cannot be broken away.
One of the things that bothers me the most, aside from the fact that you get them for free, is that they come back on whiff. So for example, if you're playing a MU where you're working to get in on someone, you're being patient, blocking, baiting their 40% screen hitbox Fatal Blow.. And then you get them to blow it.. And now you're focused on getting in.. And while they're backing up and throwing stuff, they get the Fatal Blow again. Imo once you use it, you should lose it.

I'd also decrease the pushback on some of them on block, so that you can't just space them out. Imo when you use it, it should always be a major risk (not just a long-distance-punish one), and you shouldn't get it back.
 
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Blade4693

Where you’re going, every day is Halloween.
I think after EVO is a good time. I recall the community often complaining during MKX that NRS dropped too many patches and didn't let their games breathe so I think at least for now things should stay until after the world's biggest tournament.

There are some things that need fixing though. Like hitbox/hurtbox stuff and whiffing issues, those should be addressed asap.
 

LawAbidingCitizen

MD| Soberless FGC
Fatal blows hit no farther than footsies range, where projectiles are generally never used in this game. Characters such as Erron Black and Jax have abnormal fatal blows, which are so fast they are able to punish or interrupt projectiles without any armor. Think about the matches you have played or watched recently. How many fatal blows were used to punish projectiles? From my personal experiences, almost none. They are used randomly to undermine footsies, which is precisely what the
You are definitely correct here but that's exactly why I suggest removing armor against anything but projectiles so that way they won't be fuck neutral tools locking down players freedom at the end of the match.
The reason I wanted to ask you was because you are a zoned through and through and I'm mostly a part time zoned but mostly a footsie Rushdown player and I figured my suggestion could impact zones more than me due to FBs like Jax, Erron, Noob, Cetrion and others with at least midscreen range or tracking Fatals.

I don't want them to stay how they are but I don't want all of them to be reactable. Jax has a very powerful one but he can use it to build heat and set up KBs oR use as a gap closer so despite it being broke I like using it for many reasons.
 

Red Hood MKX

Mercenary dog
Fatal blows are ruining this game for me. please Nrs do something about this scrubby cheesy mechanic. It doesn't belong in mk11 it just doesn't it literally ruins the game. Please change it even fucking remove it from the game completely.

ive been playing fighting games all my life and ive never hated a mechanic so much like i do fatal blows. characters like lui kang most of the cast cannot even punish his fatal blow its beyond retarted. The very least remove the push back on them so its a easy punish. please nrs do something this mechanic is ruining the game.
 

Qwark28

Joker waiting room
I sympathize with your frustrations, but the game neither revolves around the bottom five characters nor the top 5 characters. If you are responsible for balance, the game revolves around all the characters. If the developers are to release a patch that accurately addresses each character's strengths and weaknesses, they need to collect as much data as possible in order to avoid committing mistakes of the past such as over-buffing and over-normalizing characters.

The developers are letting the meta "play out", according to the Kombat Kast. So I am under the impression that there will be no patch for a while, which is the correct course of action for the game long term. However, I would love to see a patch that fixes hitboxes and changes some of the impractical krushing blows.



I guess you could, but I am not sure I see the point. Fatal blows hit no farther than footsies range, where projectiles are generally never used in this game. Characters such as Erron Black and Jax have abnormal fatal blows, which are so fast they are able to punish or interrupt projectiles without any armor. Think about the matches you have played or watched recently. How many fatal blows were used to punish projectiles? From my personal experiences, almost none. They are used randomly to undermine footsies, which is precisely what the community detested about Mortal Kombat X.
I don't even care about character buffs or nerfs, just let my moves not be low profiled or not have a hitbox. I want the option to play a disadvantaged char that doesn't play the game, not one that doesn't function vs some chars.

With kotal I have to play certain matchups where not only do I not have a mid to reinforce e.g situations where someone's doing a low - move, but also the move they're doing will low profile my d1, making that matchup basically impossible up close. Then these chars might also be able to keep up in the neutral more than well, so it's just extremely difficult.

I can name at least 3 chars that do this vs kotal.
 
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GLoRToR

Have fun mashing d1, liars and hypocrites.
There's a very distinct set of issues surfacing about the game which I think need to be addressed as soon as possible.

  1. Whiff issues and other rare weird cases. - This is something that was supposed to be discovered during beta testing but somehow it slipped under the radar.
  2. Issues with the wakeup system - Several characters have whiff problems here such as Kitana, Skarlet and Jade u2 being t-rex.
  3. Damage - The cast is split down the middle between characters who have insane free damage and those who do not. Scaling needs to get adjusted.
  4. Krushing Blow Requirements and effectiveness
  5. Fatal Blows being inconsistent in effectiveness between Kabal's ridiculous FB and how bad some of them are with like a single, easily countered normal. We either need everyone's signature special move to become their Fatal Blow - this would be bad in my opinion - or we need them to be consistently simple.
  6. Moves with insane range, fast startup and safety that lead to combos just need to get nerfed into the dirt. Not listing them so that I don't trigger any entitled people any more than my post already will make some kids in here enter drooling nerdrage. :D
  7. Certain characters just need to get looked at for being either one-button-bullshit or downright bad, one often resulting in the other. All characters need solid normals and some strengths while specials need to get balanced out one way or another so that they don't break matchups like they do right now.