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Question - Full Auto What to do against Liu Kang?

Derptile

RIP Ex Smash
I know it's a counter poking game. But Jacqui CANNOT poke back anything that Liu does except for an s1 after blocking his d3. That's the only time we can poke him unless he does something unsafe and someone that plays Liu like Murk does, he doesn't do unsafe shit hardly ever.

But yes, it is as bad as I think it is. He beats us in every aspect except for meterless damage. But what good is that when you're unable to open them up? Even Murk agrees that this is probably one of Jacqui's worst MUs in the game. Him and I were talking and after me raging for a bit and deciding to stop playing for a bit to calm down, he went into practice and took a look at her frame data and said, "Yep, you have no options." The only one he came up with was the aforementioned checking him with an s1 after blocking a d3.
WutFace, how fast is your d3?
 
That was always one of my worst MUs before I dropped Jacqui. He just blows her up at every range. Even after the buffs, she's still pretty unusable. I went back to her last night after having played nothing but Jax for quite a while, and it was like going from Sonya to Kano in MK9. Her limbs are just too short and her pokes are just too awful. If she had a decent d4 then she could at least keep people in check, but as it stands she's a garbage character in a game full of godly characters.
Damn is jacqui really that bad? On paper she seems pretty good with the os overhead and low starter thats pretty much safe and good zoning. I was thinking about trying her out
 

RoboCop

The future of law enforcement.
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Damn is jacqui really that bad? On paper she seems pretty good with the os overhead and low starter thats pretty much safe and good zoning. I was thinking about trying her out
Her 50/50 game is too slow and short. I can't think of a character that can't keep her from using it. She has zero wakeups, a shit d4/d3, and has no decent way to get someone off of her once they get in, and they will get in. Zoning Predator has better zoning and Mr. Fantastic limbs.
 

Ecodus

I ain't got time to bleed.
I've played this MU recently (FA vs duelist/flame fist) with @xQUANTUMx offline. It's not the most fun thing in the world, that's for sure. Here is where I had my success:

- Jump range, weaving in and out throwing out some low rockets to challenge, trying to bait a jump and go for an up rocket. Making a read on fireballs and trying to jump in (which isn't easy because LK has a strong d2 and can use b2 to trip guard well). and if I can get him to respect the jump range by using her projectiles, then go for some run up pressure.

- Counter poking, Since we are mostly blocking low vs LK, we end up blocking a lot of pokes. I like to counter poke with 1212, like after a blocked D3 because 1212 is suuuuper hit confirmable. Counter poking LK's D3 reminds me a bit of MK9 style counter poking, you have to be really quick with it. Once the LK learns to respect the 1212 post poke game, he can either poke again or go with his fast jab (which we can d1) or he'll just block. If he's just blocking the follow up go into a 50/50 or 1212-guns which jails, builds good meter and is safe. Don't be afraid to counter poke with a grab also, it put's you back at that jump range where you can press your advantage a bit with guns, jump reads and low rocket. It's not fool proof obviously and LK has answers for everything we do.

- Whiff punishing, whiff punishing with Jacqui is important and strong with her walk speed, but isn't the easiest because of her somewhat slow and not super far reaching F1. I find that most of my good whiff punishes are more set up for whiff punishing. Like if we are in a situation where I am slightly + (like 1,1) or a situation where my opponent might be expecting a string into a special (1,2,1,2- guns) i'll just go through the string, not cancel into the special, walk back and immediately f12 and hit confirm. Because of Jacqui's great walk speed we often make pokes or even normals (Like LKs common low string) whiff, and since we've already inputted the f12, we could either get a punish, or back to neutral.

- Trust your reads and know your punishes, If you read that he's going to do the parry post bike punch thing, trust the read and punish with b33. I know it sounds easier said than done, But it's just another thing in the MU that you'll need to do to win. Some of LK's stuff whiffs, i don't know when and I don't know why. But learn it and punish accordingly.

I agree that this MU is difficult (from the experience I've had so far), so hopefully these things above help.
 

xQUANTUMx

Twitter: @xxQUANTUM
Keep in mind for counter situations Kang has a 6f reversal string (f123starts high) and is very safe on block and has his go to 10f mid bread and butter string (f213) that he can often use in counter poking situations
 
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Eldriken

Guest
Thanks for all the info, Ecodus and thanks for your input as well, Quantum. But fuck this MU, man. lol

The MU makes me so effin' salty. Just ask Murk. I just give up and stop playing because I feel so helpless. I wish I didn't get like that, but it is what it is, lol. There are days where I actually don't mind as much and stick around to play more, but that usually isn't the case.
 

Ecodus

I ain't got time to bleed.
Thanks for all the info, Ecodus and thanks for your input as well, Quantum. But fuck this MU, man. lol

The MU makes me so effin' salty. Just ask Murk. I just give up and stop playing because I feel so helpless. I wish I didn't get like that, but it is what it is, lol. There are days where I actually don't mind as much and stick around to play more, but that usually isn't the case.
I'm assuming you're playing Murk Online? If so, forget counter poking.
 
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Eldriken

Guest
I'm assuming you're playing Murk Online? If so, forget counter poking.
Yes, but even so, can't we only check him with 1 off of a blocked d3? From my understanding, that is her only answer in the poking game, even if it's offline.
 

Ecodus

I ain't got time to bleed.
Yes, but even so, can't we only check him with 1 off of a blocked d3? From my understanding, that is her only answer in the poking game, even if it's offline.
depends, it's one of those read situations. if he D3's and you block it he's at +1. So i'll break it down from Jacqui's perspective:

- Jacqui thinks he's going to f123 (6f start up high) we can low profile poke (d1,d3,d4) or block, probably d2 as well, armour and maybe backdash (Jacqui's Backdash is le garbouge)
- Jacqui thinks he's going to d3 again or d4 , we can d1, back dash, or MB BF4 (and maybe MB BF2 but MB BF1 will whiff and probably be punished)
- Jacqui thinks he's going to d1, we can trade d1's, or block or backdash... i don't know if mb BF4 or MB BF2 would punish in time (EDIT: on the recovery of the d1, that is)
- Jacqui thinks he's going to do any other mid/low/high/OH string, or Grab, we can counter poke with s1 (so 1,2,1,2) and hit confirm for like 40%
- Jacqui thinks he's going to block, welcome to 50/50 town, throws, or string pressure + guns, or whatever you want to do.

I think that is pretty much the break down of the post blocked d3 game.
 
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Eldriken

Guest
depends, it's one of those read situations. if he D3's and you block it he's at +1. So i'll break it down from Jacqui's perspective:

- Jacqui thinks he's going to f123 (6f start up high) we can low profile poke (d1,d3,d4) or block, probably d2 as well, armour and maybe backdash (Jacqui's Backdash is le garbouge)
- Jacqui thinks he's going to d3 again or d4 , we can d1, back dash, or MB BF4 (and maybe MB BF2 but MB BF1 will whiff and probably be punished)
- Jacqui thinks he's going to d1, we can trade d1's, or block or backdash... i don't know if mb BF4 or MB BF2 would punish in time (EDIT: on the recovery of the d1, that is)
- Jacqui thinks he's going to do any other mid/low/high/OH string, or Grab, we can counter poke with s1 (so 1,2,1,2) and hit confirm for like 40%
- Jacqui thinks he's going to block, welcome to 50/50 town, throws, or string pressure + guns, or whatever you want to do.

I think that is pretty much the break down of the post blocked d3 game.
That's fucking stupid, lol. Not your suggestions, but that all of that thought comes from just a d3. -.-
 

Ecodus

I ain't got time to bleed.
That's fucking stupid, lol. Not your suggestions, but that all of that thought comes from just a d3. -.-
Well it's kind of like that in a lot of post blocked situations. Obviously you don't need to learn every situation for every single string, but knowing what strings a character likes to use a lot and knowing your options in a post block or post hit situation is your way to get past these kinds of bad MUs.
 
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Eldriken

Guest
Well it's kind of like that in a lot of post blocked situations. Obviously you don't need to learn every situation for every single string, but knowing what strings a character likes to use a lot and knowing your options in a post block or post hit situation is your way to get past these kinds of bad MUs.
Oh, I know. But it's why I feel so hopeless in the MU. The options she has are particularly limited and Murk is no slouch with Liu Kang at all. ;_;
 
Her 50/50 game is too slow and short. I can't think of a character that can't keep her from using it. She has zero wakeups, a shit d4/d3, and has no decent way to get someone off of her once they get in, and they will get in. Zoning Predator has better zoning and Mr. Fantastic limbs.
I found this out today, the range on her d3 is so poor, she often cant counterpoke. I played a kung lao today and his blocked d4 pushed him so faraway d3 would whiff