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Question What made Bane so good?

AsiansinaGroceryStore

AsiansinaGroceryStore

MYAAAH
I'm probably going to receive a lot of flak for this since this is literally my first post here on TYM and I'm probably gonna sound like I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm curious about what makes Bane so powerful nowadays.

When the game was still relatively new, I saw no Banes in regionals and majors (not even in locals, apart from Max and GRR) and it seemed that the general consensus was that Bane was a low tier character along with the likes of Joker. Then, as time went on, Bane started to rise in popularity and viability, becoming more and more formidable as the patches came out. However, after reading the patch notes (1.03 - 1.06) several times, it doesn't feel like Bane received anything groundbreaking. Let me explain myself:

1.03
The venom cooldown buff is a great boon to Bane players everywhere, so I can understand how that would help him out. I can also see how speeding up Bane's forward dash would help Bane's rushdown game as well.

1.04
Didn't receive anything

1.05
The only characters that 1.05 can be applied to are Joker, Zod, and Batman (and other characters that I'm missing), because the only buff that Bane received was that his bf1 can no longer be parried. Flash and Wonder Woman's parries still stop Bane's charge for some odd reason (I guess they're technically not parries), so I don't think that this patch was very relevant

1.06
This patch was the most helpful for Bane, for obvious reasons. Taking less damage while using venom is incredibly useful and should have been in the game in the first place, and being able to apply MB to the VU is great (even if it is still punishable). The inproved hitbox on the f2d3 is also useful.

Bane's viability was probably due to a bunch of factors (players figuring out Bane tech, other characters getting nerfed, poor MU knowledge, etc...), so let's have a discussion about what makes Bane so formidable and how he got there.
 
EMPRESS_SunFire

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
IMO he never was bottom 3. Nobody will know since people loves to say a character is low/OP since month one in here...
But whatever. I think he was probably mid tier. Now he is top 10 thanks to all his buffs.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
AspyxiaDyslexia- said:
IMO he never was bottom 3. Nobody will know since people loves to say a character is low/OP since month one in here...
But whatever. I think he was probably mid tier. Now he is top 10 thanks to all his buffs.
Click to expand...
No, pre-patch 1 Bane was definitely bottom 1. Dash-buffed Bane was lower mid, but definitely in the bottom 10. Dash/Venom buffed Bane was bottom 15, but almost viable.
New Bane is top 15 imo.

AsiansinaGroceryStore said:
I'm probably going to receive a lot of flak for this since this is literally my first post here on TYM and I'm probably gonna sound like I don't know what I'm talking about, but I'm curious about what makes Bane so powerful nowadays.

-stuff-
Click to expand...
To begin, welcome. As to the first pit about non-competitive Banes, @PND_Mustard rocked the EU scene with pre-patch 1 Bane and made him look good.

Now then, if you're looking directly at Bane's notes yeah I doesn't look like he has received much, but let me put some perspective down for you.

-- Throw immunity was removed on projectiles. This means certain characters no longer had viable wake-up options against us as Body Press now covered every alternative.

-- Superman and Black Adam nerfs helped us greatly, as those were some of our tougher matches. Likewise the nerf to Batman's bats definitely made it better.

-- The reworks on venom allowed Bane to essentially play a game where he gained tons of benefit for little cost, and this allowed him to really compete in a way that not many people expected.

-- Because of how the character works, getting the dash buffs meant you had to fight him up close no matter what, keeping him out was no longer an option. Once he got in, you'd need to know exactly what to do and when or you'd lose out every time, and no one looked into him enough to know what to do.

-- The buff to f.2.d3 wasn't the good part, it was the frame dump they did on our VU and f.2.d.3 that was great. It got us a LOT more on hit and allowed for some sick set-ups.

-- Buff to d.2, making it 12 frames and improving its already good hitbox to make it a monstrous wall.


Theres a lot more to it that I could go into mindblowing detail about.
 
EMPRESS_SunFire

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Doombawkz said:
No, pre-patch 1 Bane was definitely bottom 1. Dash-buffed Bane was lower mid, but definitely in the bottom 10. Dash/Venom buffed Bane was bottom 15, but almost viable.
New Bane is top 15 imo.



To begin, welcome. As to the first pit about non-competitive Banes, @PND_Mustard rocked the EU scene with pre-patch 1 Bane and made him look good.

Now then, if you're looking directly at Bane's notes yeah I doesn't look like he has received much, but let me put some perspective down for you.

-- Throw immunity was removed on projectiles. This means certain characters no longer had viable wake-up options against us as Body Press now covered every alternative.

-- Superman and Black Adam nerfs helped us greatly, as those were some of our tougher matches. Likewise the nerf to Batman's bats definitely made it better.

-- The reworks on venom allowed Bane to essentially play a game where he gained tons of benefit for little cost, and this allowed him to really compete in a way that not many people expected.

-- Because of how the character works, getting the dash buffs meant you had to fight him up close no matter what, keeping him out was no longer an option. Once he got in, you'd need to know exactly what to do and when or you'd lose out every time, and no one looked into him enough to know what to do.

-- The buff to f.2.d3 wasn't the good part, it was the frame dump they did on our VU and f.2.d.3 that was great. It got us a LOT more on hit and allowed for some sick set-ups.

-- Buff to d.2, making it 12 frames and improving its already good hitbox to make it a monstrous wall.


Theres a lot more to it that I could go into mindblowing detail about.
Click to expand...
Lol he still had his oki game, then more people started to find more tech, he had this since day 1 but people just needed to find it.. Yet a lot of people cried for buffs. He was probably bottom 10, but as i said nobody would know. Now he is top 10 IMO
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
AspyxiaDyslexia- said:
Lol he still had his oki game, then more people started to find more tech, he had this since day 1 but people just needed to find it.. Yet a lot of people cried for buffs. He was probably bottom 10, but as i said nobody would know. Now he is top 10 IMO
Click to expand...
Uh, no. Anyone who played pre-patch 1 Bane would know.

Our grab did 2% less damage than everyone elses, we couldn't even dash inbetween anyone's projectiles, our charge could be parried, our level 3 venom cooldown caused 75% increased damage taken for 9 seconds with a 75% drop in damage and mobility on an already slow character...

We had multiple 0-10 MUs, and I'm not even ashamed to admit it. Bane was easily the worst character in the entire game when it first came out.

Oki game didn't mean much because everyone had ways around it, and we paid so heavily for going anything above level 1.
 
Pan1cMode

Pan1cMode

AUS FGC represent!
It's not only that Bane was buffed, but also a lot of his threats were nerfed. Charge not being parried was also a big thing for the KF and BM MUs.
 
CrimsonShadow

CrimsonShadow

Administrator and Community Engineer
Administrator
Bane's archetype/design lent itself to an in-your-face, no holds barred, yolo/semi risky play style. But that was also his biggest weakness, because once he ventured in close, he became subject to eating a good deal of punishment/damage from a lot of the cast.

But with the venom health buff, now the plan of attack that's best suited to his tools is also one of his biggest competitive advantages. So it's a happy marriage and now he's free to be the Yolo Dump Truck he was meant to be.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
Pan1cMode said:
It's not only that Bane was buffed, but also a lot of his threats were nerfed. Charge not being parried was also a big thing for the KF and BM MUs.
Click to expand...
Not really in the kf MU, the moment she lost throw immunity on daggers BP became the most optimal oki tool.
Helped a lot in the WW and BM MUs though, I will concede that.
 
EMPRESS_SunFire

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Doombawkz said:
Uh, no. Anyone who played pre-patch 1 Bane would know.

Our grab did 2% less damage than everyone elses, we couldn't even dash inbetween anyone's projectiles, our charge could be parried, our level 3 venom cooldown caused 75% increased damage taken for 9 seconds with a 75% drop in damage and mobility on an already slow character...

We had multiple 0-10 MUs, and I'm not even ashamed to admit it. Bane was easily the worst character in the entire game when it first came out.

Oki game didn't mean much because everyone had ways around it, and we paid so heavily for going anything above level 1.
Click to expand...
Ohh i forgot about that parry and dash fix. But the game wasn't even involved at all when people started to say he was bottom 1.
 
AsiansinaGroceryStore

AsiansinaGroceryStore

MYAAAH
Doombawkz said:
No, pre-patch 1 Bane was definitely bottom 1. Dash-buffed Bane was lower mid, but definitely in the bottom 10. Dash/Venom buffed Bane was bottom 15, but almost viable.
New Bane is top 15 imo.



To begin, welcome. As to the first pit about non-competitive Banes, @PND_Mustard rocked the EU scene with pre-patch 1 Bane and made him look good.

Now then, if you're looking directly at Bane's notes yeah I doesn't look like he has received much, but let me put some perspective down for you.

-- Throw immunity was removed on projectiles. This means certain characters no longer had viable wake-up options against us as Body Press now covered every alternative.

-- Superman and Black Adam nerfs helped us greatly, as those were some of our tougher matches. Likewise the nerf to Batman's bats definitely made it better.

-- The reworks on venom allowed Bane to essentially play a game where he gained tons of benefit for little cost, and this allowed him to really compete in a way that not many people expected.

-- Because of how the character works, getting the dash buffs meant you had to fight him up close no matter what, keeping him out was no longer an option. Once he got in, you'd need to know exactly what to do and when or you'd lose out every time, and no one looked into him enough to know what to do.

-- The buff to f.2.d3 wasn't the good part, it was the frame dump they did on our VU and f.2.d.3 that was great. It got us a LOT more on hit and allowed for some sick set-ups.

-- Buff to d.2, making it 12 frames and improving its already good hitbox to make it a monstrous wall.


Theres a lot more to it that I could go into mindblowing detail about.
Click to expand...
D2 got buffed? When?
 
RM Truth

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
CrimsonShadow said:
Bane's archetype/design lent itself to an in-your-face, no holds barred, yolo/semi risky play style. But that was also his biggest weakness, because once he ventured in close, he became subject to eating a good deal of punishment from a lot of the cast.

But with the venom health buff, now the plan of attack that's best suited to his tools is also one of his biggest competitive advantages. So it's a happy marriage and now he's free to be the Yolo Dump Truck he was meant to be.
Click to expand...
Yolo Dumb Truck couldn't describe this character better.
 
Doombawkz

Doombawkz

Trust me, I'm a doctor
AspyxiaDyslexia- said:
Ohh i forgot about that parry and dash fix. But the game wasn't even involved at all when people started to say he was bottom 1.
Click to expand...
Take it from me, there was no character who was in more of a shithole position than Bane. We had to work harder than everyone to get even somewhat similar results, and we got our backs blown out for it.

AsiansinaGroceryStore said:
D2 got buffed? When?
Click to expand...
It was a ghost buff, but it used to be 17 frames.
 
EMPRESS_SunFire

EMPRESS_SunFire

Regina George of discord
Doombawkz said:
Take it from me, there was no character who was in more of a shithole position than Bane. We had to work harder than everyone to get even somewhat similar results, and we got our backs blown out for it.



It was a ghost buff, but it used to be 17 frames.
Click to expand...
Aight, i believe you <3 Just because i didn't know much about this character
 
AsiansinaGroceryStore

AsiansinaGroceryStore

MYAAAH
Doombawkz said:
Take it from me, there was no character who was in more of a shithole position than Bane. We had to work harder than everyone to get even somewhat similar results, and we got our backs blown out for it.



It was a ghost buff, but it used to be 17 frames.
Click to expand...
There are ghost buffs?! This... this changes everything.

jk, but seriously, ghost buffs are a thing?! I had no idea! How do people figure out something is improved/nerfed then?
 
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