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What is the point of "optimals " ? if dmg difference in almost non existent

ABACABB

End Of Humanity
Especially online where chance of droping said combo is huge if its strict timing ?

Good example is cetrion combo after fullscreen geyser mb into teleport . You can do 3xgeyser or optimal 11 f13 geyser . Optimal is much more strict timing and does 10 more dmg . 167 non optimal , 177 optimal . I cant even count how many times I pleyed some other cetrion and they go for optimal and drop it while I always do less optimal version but hit it every time . I want to know logic behind it . They want to look cool or what ? Hey i main cetrion too and I can do this harder combo so im better ? lol ....
 
Will add that if you've spent meter to launch, doing an optimal combo with more hits means you have the opponent in a juggle state longer, and spend more time refilling that meter with your opponent in a helpless state.

So it depends on the optimal vs non-optimal, but a longer combo costing 1 bar of meter technically costs less meter than a shorter combo that also costs a bar in many situations.

Jacqui optimals are a really good example of this


LOL nvm. Didn't realize until now, offensive meter doesn't regen until the current combo ends or at least has some delay while the combo is going on
 
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Wrenchfarm

Lexcorp Proprietary Technologies
If you're a high level player it's important to squeeze every decimal point of damage out of a touch as possible.
There is also the joy of putting together and executing a difficult combo.

Personally, I'm not a high level player and my execution is terrible so I frequently go for the "easy" version of a combo unless there is a significant damage difference between it and an optimal.
 

MagicMan357

"130 ms is more legit than Labbing" - TYM
Optimals always do way more damage, so they arent doing it correctly at all.
 
If you're a high level player it's important to squeeze every decimal point of damage out of a touch as possible.
True but that kind of works both ways. If there is a combo which is incredibly inconsistent, such as Sonya's midscreen optimal, its risky to go for it because you loose significantly more damage by dropping it than you gain by hitting it.

Speaking of, can anyone explain why 3,3 in Sonya's optimal causes issues for the 134xxbf 2 followup? Is it hurtbox size? I know one of the dashs required is a half dash of sorts. I can hit this combo fine offline on my setup, but if I change setup or go online then its drop city.
 
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I think the important thing is optimals are always the right choice when viewed in a vacuum. If it's substantially more difficult than an easier combo that does slightly less damage, I just don't personally like the risk trade-off. I'm not a consistent enough player to know I'm going to be able to pull it off every time in the heat of a match, and it's just not worth potentially dropping half a combo because a weird setup is required to eke out an extra 10 damage. If you've done the combo enough that it's not difficult for you to pull off, that obviously changes the risk trade-off.

Overall the argument is if the likelihood of pulling off two different combos is equal and there is no other factor to consider when choosing between them, you should always do the one that does more damage.
 

Zviko

Noob
It depends on the character. For some characters, going with optimal is worth it. If not it can still be more fun and for some people, that's a priority. And more you do it, more consistent you get, even online.
 

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
Its called optimal because it has the best dmg/oki. But then again if u cant do your optimals consistent your better off doing "non" optimals
 

mrapchem

Noob
True but that kind of works both ways. If there is a combo which is incredibly inconsistent, such as Sonya's midscreen optimal, its risky to go for it because you loose significantly more damage by dropping it than you gain by hitting it.

Speaking of, can anyone explain why 3,3 in Sonya's optimal causes issues for the 124xxbf 2 followup? Is it hurtbox size? I know one of the dashs required is a half dash of sorts. I can hit this combo fine offline on my setup, but if I change setup or go online then its drop city.
It seems like there's two issues with Sonya's optimal: S1's hitbox is too small, so when a player dashes up after 33, sometimes it whiffs. And, BF2 is too slow. If it were 13 frames, like Sonya's FB, the combo would hit far more often like the FB combo does.
 

Hebrew Negro

KingofBosz97 XBL
Optimal may not always mean more damage. You can cut a combo short or use a less damaging ender for oki. Using Cetrion for example you can end a combo with geyser for more damage or you can end with the ground rock thing (I don't play her) to continue pressure.
 

jcbowie

...more deadly than the dawn.
I would say it depends less on the character and more on you, and how consistent you can be. Sonic often doesn't do optimals with characters who aren't his main. Just look at his Raiden or Kollector videos, he does the non-optimal version of some combos a lot, only nets him like a percent or two less damage.

I mean jeez, I don't think I've EVER seen a Scorpion player do their optimal BNB online. It's a little bit harder to hit two f3's in a row on the juggle, but if you want to be able to consistently squeeze out all your character's combo potential without leaving any damage on the table then you kinda have to try and nail your muscle memory, and that means trying and failing the combo a bunch of times until you hit it more often than not.
 

John Grizzly

The axe that clears the forest
My rule in any fighter has always been "if I can't do it 10 out 10 times, I'll do a different combo".

If the damage is negligible, there's no point in risking it. In MK11 I play Shao Kahn, though, and he has ZERO difficult combos, so it means nothing.

It's fairly easy in Tekken to find a much more consistent combo for just a little less damage because you actually have many, many combo routes in that game. Even Knee wasn't going for optimals with Steve yesterday in Tekken World Tour Finals because it's not worth the risk.
 

ryublaze

Noob
There isnt other than squeezing out the most damage possible so you can avoid magic pixel situations. I think it's just a sense of satisfaction, most players will always go for combos they know they won't drop. Also optimal =/= max damage
 

Vslayer

Juiced Moose On The Loose
Lead Moderator
well if you do the non-optimal and your opponent has 1 point of health left and makes the comeback you'll be real mad.
 

HeroesNZ

Baconlord's Billionaire Sugar Daddy
Going for hard combos is hype - if I'm going for a hard optimal that gives maybe a 1-2% damage increase but only has a <50% hit rate then it's cos I'm flexing, I need every bit of damage I can get or I just wanna see if I can hit it

Even in tournament you're not always in tryhard mode - that's why people like Mercying too, myself included. Generally speaking for me:
Tryharding = BnBs
Not Tryharding = Optimals