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What is Injustice 2 truly all about?

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I know that this question might be sound dumb to some people and it have been answered somewhere else here, but I at least didn't find an answer to it so I hope you guys can help me.

A couple of days ago, @STB Shujinkydink made a new tier list vid for IJ2:


But it's not the tier list I wanna talk about here, I wanna talk about something that Dink said at the 3:45 minute mark, when he said that IJ2 is a "game that is so heavy neutral-based", and it's not the first time he said that in his vids.

My question is: What is IJ2 about? And if it is about the neutral, how so? I'm not saying it is untrue, but I do wanna understand why and how it is the case. There are people who claim, like since the game has been released, that IJ2 is all about projectile-based Zoning, and some others said that is all about the Cross Ups.

FTR, MKX and DBFZ do have various playstyles but their main focus is indeed Rushdown, while IJ1 was indeed about projectile-based Zoning.

So what is IJ2 is about exactly? Is it about one of the above, a combination of them, something else etc?

I hope you guys can help me with this.
 
Injustice is in short... get a life lead and lame out the opponent and waiting him to commit so You can trip guard him or do a MB b3 for full combo punish. Injustice 'neutral' is simply a form of lame out.:DOGE... or in the case of the close combatants. to asphyxiate the poor opponent with 50/50's.

A good method of laming out is doing UN-clash able combos and abusing chip damage. via projectiles or damaging traits. This method becomes more viable on the second life bar.
 

HeavyNorse

#BlackLivesMatter
So, there's this guy called Superman, right? He was tricked into killing his wife and unborn child, so now he wants to rid the world of all criminals and everyone who is against him. So he becomes this super-dictator, while his former friend Batman has formed a resistance group to try and stop him.

But you see, this Superman fella is REALLY powerful! Like, super strong, almost invincible, stuff like that. And Batman, even though he's super smart, he's just a mortal man. And a lot of the other superheros who used to fight alongside them are either killed for opposing Superman or have taken his side, except for a select few. And some former villains even took Superman's side so they wouldn't be killed off. But because Superman is now kinda a villain himself, they're pretty much just doing the same thing anyways.

Injustice 2's story starts when a whole new enemy arrives to Earth, an alien called Brainiac, who wants to collect the world to his archives and destroy all he doesn't need. So Batman and Superman are now forced to join forces against this new enemy, fighting side by side just like old times.

That's what Injustice 2 is about... that, and a lot of zoning and projectile spamming. ;)
 

Baconlord

Proud follower of the church of Cetrion
The game is super neutral based since the slower movement speed makes the run and gun style of mkx much harder to execute. The game being about zoning is a myth and has never been true. Just look at the top tiers throughout the games life. Aquaman, black Adam, catwoman, deadshot, red hood, wowo, and firestorm have all been incredibly strong characters and they have all been mid range neural based with the exception deadshot and firestorm
 

DDutchguy

Raiden enthusiast
Generally, at least compared to MKX, Injustice 2 is heavily neutral and footsie based with some zoning sprinkled in. Because there is no run button in this game, you have to put effort into spacing and being careful that you don't get whiff punished. In general the game requires much more effort in the mind game department.

To me specifically, Injustice 2 is about playing Raiden and option selecting all my matches by saying "Yeah but Raiden sucks" when I lose and "I outplayed you hard" when I win :DOGE
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
Generally, at least compared to MKX, Injustice 2 is heavily neutral and footsie based with some zoning sprinkled in. Because there is no run button in this game, you have to put effort into spacing and being careful that you don't get whiff punished. In general the game requires much more effort in the mind game department.

To me specifically, Injustice 2 is about playing Raiden and option selecting all my matches by saying "Yeah but Raiden sucks" when I lose and "I outplayed you hard" when I win :DOGE
MKX is the one that focuses more on mind games because you have to make a lot of reads. In an offense based game, whoever is able to process the information faster gets the upper hand. Also you need to make sure that the opponent doesn't make you panic, in other words, that they don't get into your head. This can be done in IJ2, but it is a lot more frequent in MKX.

The game is super neutral based since the slower movement speed makes the run and gun style of mkx much harder to execute. The game being about zoning is a myth and has never been true. Just look at the top tiers throughout the games life. Aquaman, black Adam, catwoman, deadshot, red hood, wowo, and firestorm have all been incredibly strong characters and they have all been mid range neural based with the exception deadshot and firestorm
That explanation make a lot of sense indeed. But why people still keep saying that it is all about Zoning? Is it really because of pre-patched Deadshot alone? Because if it is, then it's really silly that people still think like that about the game.
 

Laos_boy

Meow Hoes
The game is really neutral based.

Movement is "fixed"
you have to know when your opponents gonna dash, jump, interactble, or MB roll. But unlike mkx everyone has limited/predictable mobility you you're able to walk your way in an out where you know your opponent is gonna land. Completely different from just running in and stoping when ever you want. You can't just dash in like crazy.

Projectiles
Since projectiles don't collide in this game you have to make that decision in neutral. Am I gonna trade, am I gonna move, or am I gonna sit back and wait for mistakes. Having a projectile in this game really helps with neutral and having a ground taking one is is basically a "stop walking"

Big normals
Footsies is big in this game but the neutral is more prevalent due to just being able to throw out this halfscreen hit confirmable normal. That's whys is so hard for character like canary to play neutral since she can't just throw out a move outside of trait. She's actually forced to play footsies and whiff punishing game instead of playing of a fair neutral game.

There are alot of moves that are basically fuck neutral moves. That make you play neutral but opponent doesn't have too.
 

DDutchguy

Raiden enthusiast
MKX is the one that focuses more on mind games because you have to make a lot of reads.
I wasn’t necessarily saying Injustice 2 had more of a focus on mind games than MKX did, just that it recquired more personal effort beyond execution. For instance, in Injustice 2 I often find myself in a situation where both me and the opponent walk back and forth a bit to space each other out, to see who makes the mistake first. In MKX this doesn’t happen pretty much ever due to the run button being so good in terms of footsies and getting in.

Injustice 2 does require significantly more patience though, which relates to mind games in the sense that you can bait your opponent into becoming impatient and respond accordingly.
 
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But it's not the tier list I wanna talk about here, I wanna talk about something that Dink said at the 3:45 minute mark, when he said that IJ2 is a "game that is so heavy neutral-based", and it's not the first time he said that in his vids.

My question is: What is IJ2 about? And if it is about the neutral, how so? I'm not saying it is untrue, but I do wanna understand why and how it is the case. There are people who claim, like since the game has been released, that IJ2 is all about projectile-based Zoning, and some others said that is all about the Cross Ups.

FTR, MKX and DBFZ do have various playstyles but their main focus is indeed Rushdown, while IJ1 was indeed about projectile-based Zoning.

So what is IJ2 is about exactly? Is it about one of the above, a combination of them, something else etc?

I hope you guys can help me with this.
My fault I hit the reply button without writing my post.

In general, every game has a neutral game, and each share some fundamental aspects but also deviate on others.

In the case of injustice 1, the walk speed was terribly slow so it made jostling for space difficult. Thus dashing in was a much stronger part of the neutral game, and characters with slow walk speed couldn't walk there character to the corner, letting them be more susceptible to zoning (Lex vs. Zod)

Injustice 2 simply addressed this issue by increase the walkspeed for every character. It makes it easier to walk back out of a character's footsie range and whiff punish, but to also shimmy the opponent, and walk the opponent down to the corner. These changes, including MB roll and the legacy aspect of the game, allowed for the development of the footsie game even further as compared to MKX and MK9, considering these two titles only had about 2-3 years to develop their footsie playstyles. Injustice has 4 years, which is one of the benefits of having legacy in a fighting game.

Our community has also improved overall regarding footsies and whiff punishing, so you also have to consider that as well.
 
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Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
You can play any play style quite comfortably in Injustice 2, but keepaway (Fate, Starfire, Hybrids like Black Adam/Firestorm), or characters who can get past keepaway (Black Manta, Hellboy, Atom, Hybrids who have average counter zoning), are the strongest in the game. There's a couple of reasons for this, but the main ones are:
  • Screen size. IJ2's screen is huge and the stages are much larger.
  • No sprint/easy get in tool. MB roll works but it's pretty easy to punish if you wait it out due to it's decent recovery, and also costs a bar. Not to mention that MB roll itself is also a defensive tool for zoners to get out of the corner/make space, which is hard to react to when used like this
  • Push block is a thing. Seriously it doesn't seem bad at first but once you fight an opponent who knows how to use it properly it's painful.
  • Backdashes are good again due to no stamina as well as being invincible, and the best characters actually having pretty good backdashes (Superman, Fate, Batman)
Basically the best characters in the game can abuse all of these tools better than the rest of the cast. Having no sprint in particular is a really big deal since rushdown characters have to play patient against it.

I think all the "archetypes" are really balanced. It's just that playing the patient game is the best gameplan at the moment, but it's not like it's miles and miles better than rushdown, otherwise we wouldn't see them played at all.
 
Chip kills ruins the hype of the game. There's times where a player cannot literally win against an opponent and give up the game because is impossible to win. I hope They fix this in the next game. I doubt this happen in this current game.
 

Dankster Morgan

she don’t call me daddy she call me Grandmaster
Injustice 2 is definitely about neuatral, zoning plays in a good bit but it’s definitey not all about it. Fate is the only top character who is a zoner and Deadshot is the only one who was at one point.

I’d say it is about footsies and neutral mostly, but honeslty a bit of everything. Every type of player has an option in I2, there is Wonder Woman, Fate, Flash, Black Adam, etc who all do different things but are all legitimate choices
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

WHEN IS GOD
Chip kills ruins the hype of the game. There's times where a player cannot literally win against an opponent and give up the game because is impossible to win. I hope They fix this in the next game. I doubt this happen in this current game.
^^^ Agreed.

Another thing: the KI style lifebars don't do anyone any favors. Never been crazy about them.

You lose the first lifebar and half of the second before you take their first, you're staring round 3 at half life, AND they have a Clash, AND half the comeback factors IJ1 had are gone.

Having a good neutral lame game meta gets stale fast when there's no chaos to balance it out.
 

masherofbuttons

I'll mash out of +30 I know no fear
I think part of the reason why injustice is being seen as a zone-heavy game is that in a lot of recent fighting games, the games have had an emphasis on offense. Injustice doesn't necessarily make defense extremely strong, it's just that the game isn't catered towards offensive play, which is what games like SFV and DBFZ definitely are. In the grand scale of things, I'd say there's a nice balance between all styles of play. No playstyle got cucked.
 

Roy Arkon

I will leave my seal on you!
I wasn’t necessarily saying Injustice 2 had more of a focus on mind games than MKX did, just that it reauired more personal effort beyond execution. For instance, in Injustice 2 I often find myself in a situation where both me and the opponent walk back and forth a bit to space each other out, to see who makes the mistake first. In MKX this doesn’t happen pretty much everdue to the run button being so good in terms of footsies and getring in.

Injustice 2 does require significantly more patience though, which relates to mind games in the sense that you can bait your opponent into becoming impatient and respond accordingly.
Ok I get you, thanks for the explanation.

My fault I hit the reply button without writing my post.

In general, every game has a neutral game, and each share some fundamental aspects but also deviate on others.

In the case of injustice 1, the walk speed was terribly slow so it made jostling for space difficult. Thus dashing in was a much stronger part of the neutral game, and characters with slow walk speed couldn't walk there character to the corner, letting them be more susceptible to zoning (Lex vs. Zod)

Injustice 2 simply addressed this issue by increase the walkspeed for every character. It makes it easier to walk back out of a character's footsie range and whiff punish, but to also shimmy the opponent, and walk the opponent down to the corner. These changes, including MB roll and the legacy aspect of the game, allowed for the development of the footsie game even further as compared to MKX and MK9, considering these two titles only had about 2-3 years to develop their footsie playstyles. Injustice has 4 years, which is one of the benefits of having legacy in a fighting game.

Our community has also improved overall regarding footsies and whiff punishing, so you also have to consider that as well.
Very good points indeed, defiantly need to take those into account.

Injustice is in short... get a life lead and lame out the opponent and waiting him to commit so You can trip guard him or do a MB b3 for full combo punish. Injustice 'neutral' is simply a form of lame out.:DOGE... or in the case of the close combatants. to asphyxiate the poor opponent with 50/50's.

A good method of laming out is doing UN-clash able combos and abusing chip damage. via projectiles or damaging traits. This method becomes more viable on the second life bar.
Chip damage existed in fighting games since the beginning, and NRS games tend to have more chip damage situations including in IJ games (even though that MK has indeed even more chip damage situations since the whole series is more offensive based). And as for the unclashable combos, it's your job to find a way how to deal with them. I mean, what else you wanna do? Add the "reverse rage" mechanic from Soul Calibur 5 that hurt the game along with other things?

The game is really neutral based.

Movement is "fixed"
you have to know when your opponents gonna dash, jump, interactble, or MB roll. But unlike mkx everyone has limited/predictable mobility you you're able to walk your way in an out where you know your opponent is gonna land. Completely different from just running in and stoping when ever you want. You can't just dash in like crazy.

Projectiles
Since projectiles don't collide in this game you have to make that decision in neutral. Am I gonna trade, am I gonna move, or am I gonna sit back and wait for mistakes. Having a projectile in this game really helps with neutral and having a ground taking one is is basically a "stop walking"

Big normals
Footsies is big in this game but the neutral is more prevalent due to just being able to throw out this halfscreen hit confirmable normal. That's whys is so hard for character like canary to play neutral since she can't just throw out a move outside of trait. She's actually forced to play footsies and whiff punishing game instead of playing of a fair neutral game.

There are alot of moves that are basically fuck neutral moves. That make you play neutral but opponent doesn't have too.
Well technically speaking, MKX also has big normals and projectiles don't collide there as well, but in combination of the movement of IJ2 like how described it then it does make it more about the neutral indeed.

Backdashes are good again due to no stamina as well as being invincible, and the best characters actually having pretty good backdashes (Superman, Fate, Batman)
I won't say that "backdashes are good again", in fact it was a good thing that MKX backdashes were attached to the stamina because MK games do have a lot of chip damage situations and not just in MKX. Other then that you're right though.
 
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Cursa

Counterpoke with armoured DB2 at all times.
I won't say that "backdashes are good again", in fact it was a good thing that MKX backdashes were attached to the stamina because MK games do have a lot of chip damage situations and not just in MKX. Other then that you're right though.
Isn't NRS games having a lot of general chip damage a good reason for backdashes being good again? Backdashing is arguably the best way to get out of guaranteed chip outside of tools like push block. I feel like I miscommunicated; what i meant was is that the best IJ2 characters have really strong backdashes, stronger than basically every character in MKX (Can't say 100%) and it helps play into the whole neutral game thing.

Also agreed with the chip damage part. Flame Fist Liu Kang, Sorcerer Quan, Blood God Kotal, and Kung Lao in general all came to me in a nightmare. Or just basically anyone with plus run cancels

Also I'd like to add that invincible wakeups (i,e meter less) probably help a decent amount with the whole "defensive" meta. Even though some of the best characters in the game have pretty shite wakeups (Black Adam, Superman, Black Manta?)
 
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