What if the wakeup system WASNT universal?

[Divine- Jzb]

I’ve been playing SFV a lot and this idea occurred to me. What if not every character had access to every wake up tool? What if a character like cetrion didn’t have access to an invincible u3 or a tech roll? Knocking her down would suddenly mean something. In SF they balance lots of characters in this manner. For example, Zangief is probably one of the most powerful broken grapplers in history when he’s in your face. But he has no invincible reversal on wakeup so knocking him down can mean game if you’re offense is strong. Inversely, characters like poison who play keep away with their long range attacks also don’t have invincible wakeups so getting in on them can also mean game. Idk, with a universal wake up system I think there’s a lot opportunity lost to make the meta of each MU deeper by adding more repercussions to making bad decisions. Thoughts? I’m not sure EXACTLY what wake up options should be limited and how but I think eliminating a 5 way universal wakeup system would make for a good change to the way the game is played.

 

[Cobainevermind87]

What if not every character had access to every wake up tool? What if a character like cetrion didn’t have access to an invincible u3 or a tech roll? Knocking her down would suddenly mean something.

Not really. With the invincibility on the getup frames, coupled with the lack of active frames on most normals, meaties are still going to lose to wake-up buttons a lot of the time.

 

[Divine- Jzb]

Not really. With the invincibility on the getup frames, coupled with the lack of active frames on most normals, meaties are still going to lose to wake-up buttons a lot of the time.

So you’d rather stick to reading 5 wake up options (wake up buttons included) instead of cutting it back to just a few in certain MU’s? I don’t have much trouble meaty’ing honestly, but meaty’ing is irrelevant in general given how the wake up system works at the moment. You have to be suicidal to think it’s actually your turn to mix your opponent when you have OKI and they have defensive meter.

 

[Red Reaper]

Yeah. That would be better, but wake up roll and delayed wake up are really strong in this game so that would need to be changed. Delayed wake up isn't as strong offline though, but wake up roll leaving players that attempt oki, punishable is a pretty bad design choice since it just rewards raw guessing and not the intricacies of defense.

 

[Gooberking]

Then it's just another game that didn't have a common system for WU's. It's fine to try something else and tune around it. Honestly it's a good thing when games are actually different instead of all trying to be the same game. If anyone ever actually listened every time someone suggested game A work like game B, then we probably wouldn't have anything interesting to play.

I'm not inclined to think it makes MU any deeper if you also look at each character's u2/3's. They aren't all created equal and can be crushed different ways. Some you duck, some you hop, some you can punish if you flawless block. Rolls are their own thing in the game, but it's pretty risky for someone to over invest in doing them and you can often cover multiple wake up options which tends to catch people that only have one or two go to WU options.

Either way this is the game we have. Love it or leave it, but I don't see any reason to try and shove it into any other game's footprints.

 

[Divine- Jzb]

Then it's just another game that didn't have a common system for WU's. It's fine to try something else and tune around it. Honestly it's a good thing when games are actually different instead of all trying to be the same game. If anyone ever actually listened every time someone suggested game A work like game B, then we probably wouldn't have anything interesting to play.

I'm not inclined to think it makes MU any deeper if you also look at each character's u2/3's. They aren't all created equal and can be crushed different ways. Some you duck, some you hop, some you can punish if you flawless block. Rolls are their own thing in the game, but it's pretty risky for someone to over invest in doing them and you can often cover multiple wake up options which tends to catch people that only have one or two go to WU options.

Either way this is the game we have. Love it or leave it, but I don't see any reason to try and shove it into any other game's footprints.

Well my stance is that defensive abilities shouldn’t always be an across the board concept. Some characters shouldn’t be able to escape your pressure so easily considering how oppressive other aspects of their gameplay are. I think cetrion is a good example, I even used her as a second main when I still actively played this game. Her zoning and neutral abilities are so powerful and oppressive for characters without counter zoning. There should be more reward for cornering/knocking down a character like that. Because currently due to the fact the defense system makes meatys impractical given all of the different options, you’re almost always playing the neutral game vs cetrion which is her strongest suit because knockdown pressure can be too risky. I really don’t think altering the wake up system to balance risk/reward would make this game anything like SF. It’s simply a suggestion for helping the game to be less of a guess fest at all times.

Also, all wakeups are punishable in SFV with the exception of a few special cases where an active v trigger can allow a wakeup to be safe for basically one character Kage in specific situations. It wouldn’t be anything like that. I never suggested u3 should punishable by everyone on block.

 

[spidey300]

mk11 has homogenized gameplay and given tools to character archetypes that don't need them. either we get some big system overhaul to the game or wait for mk12

 

[scarsunseen]

I think the main issue with wake-ups is the recharging meter. Tom Brady covered wake-ups in his most recent video and I pretty much agree with everything.