What Happened, NRS?!

[Rude]

You continue to push boundaries on stupidity and awfull arguments,truely remarkable and hilarious.

also yeah i never watched dbz so yet another miss on your childish attempts at insults,you really need to work on your material,good luck.

That's really all you've got, huh?

Empty head behavior.

 

[MateoFoShizzle]

Rude's only verbal tactic is quoting and stating "this is unhinged." Dude is insulated in his own one man bubble and has a very delusional opinion of himself. Idk where he came from, but cat is a joke. Dont take him serious bruh, he desperately wants to get a job working at NRS in the mail room over his current job mopping the floor at steak n shake.

you know how difficult that’d be though?

That's really all you've got, huh?

Empty head behavior.

hey DBZ was good though growing up

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

Why bother caring about power differentials in a fighting game with ensemble cast? It is not a comic and is meant to be fun and simple narritive where anything can happen. Cassie beating Shinnok with some mysterious green power was somewhat fun and much more interesting than Liu beating him yet again.

If you are wanting outcomes to be based on true power rankings only, each game would come down to something like Liu Kang (or whoever you think has the right power differential) beating <insert whatever boss is the big bad> every time. All of the other characters would be just farting around doing some sort of irrelevant shit. That is fine for a comic or an adventure game, but for a fighting game with a cast of characters, it really isnt. That was about the only good thing about MKDA is it stopped that boring arse cycle of Liu Kang wins again!

I find this type of thinking very lazy...and very telling.

You seem to cling to the idea that FGs don't need, nor should have decent stories in them. Fine, that can be your opinion, BUT that isn't / wasn't MK. MK actually had a decent story, with actual context and reasoning for why things happened. Liu Kang won because he was / is the chosen one...with GREAT SKILL and power within him. He was stronger than his peers. What you seem to be saying / thinking is that this isn't the case, that all the characters in MK (and every other fighting game) are all on the same tier within their universe, and are interchangeable.

Are you for real?

And then you say that having actual tiers of power and actual meaning to the decisions made in a story is good for comics, but not needed in Fighting games? Sure. All that that points to is that you don't, and probably never, cared about the MK lore.

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

My suggestion is stick to the comics. TBH I think the bulk of people couldn't give a shit about power dynamics - they just want a dumb, fun story.

I do not mean this in a disrespectful way, but the narritive you are looking for is alligned with comic books rather than ensemble video games.

You for get that MK has A LOT of comics.

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

I remember an interview with Boon before MKX was released where he was asked about where the story would go after MKX since it was 30 years in the future and everyone was old, and his response was something like, "Haha, we actually haven't thought that far ahead yet, but we'll cross that bridge when we get there." I think it's pretty safe to say that the story and its quality comes second to most everything else in the game, which I should mention isn't necessarily a bad thing, but it is the reality of the MK franchise.

When it comes to story, whether it's in a game, movie, or novel, I believe it's never a good idea to take it more seriously than the writer(s) takes it. If you're more invested in something than the people that actually made it, you're just setting yourself up for disappointment.

This is VERY true...but...I think many people didn't realize the reality of the situation until it was too late. I think many people were thinking they were taking it seriously (this is me 100%). With an upped budget, upped presentation, I think many people were like “OK, we’re finally going to see what they can really do...”

...

...And then it was just objectively worse than what came before (MKX). And then they did it again even worse (MK11). And then they tripled down (MK1).

Don't get me wrong. There were some cool things that happened along the way. It wasn't objectively ALL bad. But overall, the narrative they told, wasn't good, and so now they have transformed the MK story into a VERY subpar narrative with no real hope or even real desire to be anything more.

 

[Rude]

you know how difficult that’d be though?

hey DBZ was good though growing up

Yeah it was ight.

 

[Juxtapose]

Liu Kang won because he was / is the chosen one...with GREAT SKILL and power within him.

Actually no. Here's his official bio from Mortal Kombat: "Once a member of the super secret White Lotus Society, Liu Kang left the organization in order to represent Shaolin Temples in the tournament. Kang is strong in his beliefs and despises Shang Tsung."

If you look at his bio from the manuals of the home versions, he's 24, a Shaolin Monk, and a fisherman (similar to how Raiden in the New Era is a young monk and humble farmer).

Very humble and basic. He became the "chosen one" by being picked to represent the Shaolin Temple, and for winning the Tournament. The proper concept of "the chosen one" came later in the lore, and was even more heavily pushed in the new timeline.

You for get that MK has A LOT of comics.

A lot of them are not canon though. There's the mail order comics for Mortal Kombat (1992), and Mortal Kombat II, one for Mortal Kombat 4, one for Mortal Kombat: Deception, and one for Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe. The Mortal Kombat X comics were canon until about 3-4 years ago when they were decanonized.

All the other comics are not canon. Interestingly, I own a bunch of the old Malibu Comics myself, and I own all the Mortal Kombat X comics.

I think many people were thinking they were taking it seriously (this is me 100%). With an upped budget, upped presentation, I think many people were like “OK, we’re finally going to see what they can really do...”

I regret that seems to be a perception issue. From my first time playing Mortal Kombat (2011) at launch, it was clear they were going for both a nostalgia trip, and a summer blockbuster type of story. It was fun and entertaining, but clearly not a dark and serious tone like the original trilogy had. My first impression was that it was like a soap opera for men. And I greatly enjoyed it, and the subsequent stories, for what they are, not for what I wished they would be.

Having said that, if I was the lead creative, I would have done things differently.

 

[Juxtapose]

Yeah it was ight.

As someone who does not watch, and has no interest in, anime, can someone explain to me how "power levels" in that medium work?

 

[MateoFoShizzle]

As someone who does not watch, and has no interest in, anime, can someone explain to me how "power levels" in that medium work?

The louder and longer you screamed, the more powerful you were

 

[Juxtapose]

The louder and longer you screamed, the more powerful you were

Wait, really?

 

[haketh]

Wait, really?

Nah not really, in DBZ someone’s strength level can be measure by how much Ki they have. Hence the “Over 9000” meme where Vegeta is able to find out Goku has a Ki level over 9K.

Up until they introduced Hit, having a lower power level just meant you really could t win a fight against someone with a high power level.

 

[chrisisnice]

I find this type of thinking very lazy...and very telling.

You seem to cling to the idea that FGs don't need, nor should have decent stories in them. Fine, that can be your opinion, BUT that isn't / wasn't MK. MK actually had a decent story, with actual context and reasoning for why things happened. Liu Kang won because he was / is the chosen one...with GREAT SKILL and power within him. He was stronger than his peers. What you seem to be saying / thinking is that this isn't the case, that all the characters in MK (and every other fighting game) are all on the same tier within their universe, and are interchangeable.

Are you for real?

And then you say that having actual tiers of power and actual meaning to the decisions made in a story is good for comics, but not needed in Fighting games? Sure. All that that points to is that you don't, and probably never, cared about the MK lore.

I’ve been playing since the game first came out in the 90’s and own the original Blood and Thunder comics. I love the lore of the series, I just don’t see things as mathematically as you.

MK has always been a story of someone doing something extraordinary. Liu Kang was initially nothing special – he was a humble Shaolin fighter who did something extraordinary - beat people stronger than him. Good for him. Shujinko - some senile old fart did something extraordinary - beat the invincible Dragon King. Good for him. Cassie beat some failed dickwad by channelling some mysterious power. Good for her - it was not the first time he had his arse kicked.

You may get your jollies by seeing Liu Kang win for the umpteenth time because that is how the power dynamics work but most don’t find this interesting. I know I was relieved when he got killed in MKDA because finally something different would happen. Narratives are not generally mathematical because it is boring and uninspired.

 

[Juxtapose]

Nah not really, in DBZ someone’s strength level can be measure by how much Ki they have. Hence the “Over 9000” meme where Vegeta is able to find out Goku has a Ki level over 9K.

Up until they introduced Hit, having a lower power level just meant you really could t win a fight against someone with a high power level.

"Ki?" I'm certain that doesn't mean Killer Instinct .

Regardless, that's a very mechanical way to determine who wins fights, and is in no way shape or form realistic.

I just don’t see things as mathematically as you.

I suppose "mathematically" would be another way to describe these anime power levels. They're still quite unrealistic though.

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

I’ve been playing since the game first came out in the 90’s and own the original Blood and Thunder comics. I love the lore of the series, I just don’t see things as mathematically as you.

MK has always been a story of someone doing something extraordinary. Liu Kang was initially nothing special – he was a humble Shaolin fighter who did something extraordinary - beat people stronger than him. Good for him. Shujinko - some senile old fart did something extraordinary - beat the invincible Dragon King. Good for him. Cassie beat some failed dickwad by channelling some mysterious power. Good for her - it was not the first time he had his arse kicked.

You may get your jollies by seeing Liu Kang win for the umpteenth time because that is how the power dynamics work but most don’t find this interesting. I know I was relieved when he got killed in MKDA because finally something different would happen. Narratives are not generally mathematical because it is boring and uninspired.

That's the thing, I don't get my "jollies" for those reasons. Your seeming bias against "power dynamics" clouds your argument.

Forget the term power scaling, and just think in terms of storytelling. It was said by Boon years ago that Liu Kang was like the Luke Skywalker of MK early on. That is one of, if not the, reason they killed him in MKDA...to shake up the story. Liu Kang dying in MKDA was necessary. It was a bold change for the series, and stood to elevate the stakes greatly in those 3D era games. They also explained and showed how it was possible for both Liu and Shao to be taken down. While not among the greatest bits of storytelling, it was good, and it worked, and served the purpose of the story.

Like everyone else I'm just along for the ride, but again, the ride is objectively worse in this modern era. I'm not in charge of anything MK, but objectively Liu Kang's run of beating Shang Tsung in MK1, then beating Shao Kahn in MK3, then beating Shinnok in MK4 (which I should say, I still have issue with, and had issues with even back in the day), is better than Cassie skipping to the end of the run and defeating Shinnok but in greater fashion.

But again, you don't really care. You could seemingly give to sh!ts about if the story is good, let alone consistent. You couldn't care less if objectively the story telling is not on par with what came before.

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

Actually no. Here's his official bio from Mortal Kombat: "Once a member of the super secret White Lotus Society, Liu Kang left the organization in order to represent Shaolin Temples in the tournament. Kang is strong in his beliefs and despises Shang Tsung."

If you look at his bio from the manuals of the home versions, he's 24, a Shaolin Monk, and a fisherman (similar to how Raiden in the New Era is a young monk and humble farmer).

Very humble and basic. He became the "chosen one" by being picked to represent the Shaolin Temple, and for winning the Tournament. The proper concept of "the chosen one" came later in the lore, and was even more heavily pushed in the new timeline.

Actually...yes.

The White Lotus Society is the organization that Raiden and the Great Kung Lao founded in order to train Earthrealm fighters. Liu left the Organization to represent the Shaolin in the first MK tournament.

Humble...yes. Basic...in his look and personality...sure. In terms of skill...no.

Liu Kang from back in the day is very different from current Raiden as all things point to Liu being orphaned at a young age, then CHOSEN by Raiden early on for [insert reason here], and then him being trained under Raiden, Bo Rai Cho, and many other masters for the purpose of ultimately becoming “the best...of the best...of the best” (paraphrased from the original MK1 manual).

I just want to say here that ALL the hero fighters in MK were “chosen” by Raiden in the early MK games to participate in MK. It was never happenstance that these characters came together as they all proved themselves at some point to stand where they stood. In MK3 specifically, Raiden protected all their souls from Shao Kahn’s magic, choosing them as Earthrealm’s greatest chance at victory. Regardless…

Liu was set up from the beginning to be the ultimate weapon / final solution / final chance against Outworld as those were the stakes through MK3, and maybe MK4. The stakes in the first MK game were VASTLY greater than what was shown in the beginning of MK1.

A lot of them are not canon though. There's the mail order comics for Mortal Kombat (1992), and Mortal Kombat II, one for Mortal Kombat 4, one for Mortal Kombat: Deception, and one for Mortal Kombat vs DC Universe. The Mortal Kombat X comics were canon until about 3-4 years ago when they were decanonized.

All the other comics are not canon. Interestingly, I own a bunch of the old Malibu Comics myself, and I own all the Mortal Kombat X comics.

My only point was that MK exists in multiple mediums, which include comics. While the Malibu comics are not canon, and neither are the MKX comics (maybe), the official comics do A LOT to set the stage of the universe.

I regret that seems to be a perception issue. From my first time playing Mortal Kombat (2011) at launch, it was clear they were going for both a nostalgia trip, and a summer blockbuster type of story. It was fun and entertaining, but clearly not a dark and serious tone like the original trilogy had. My first impression was that it was like a soap opera for men. And I greatly enjoyed it, and the subsequent stories, for what they are, not for what I wished they would be.

Having said that, if I was the lead creative, I would have done things differently.

I agree. I had issue with MK9, specifically with how they treated Shao Kahn, but it was a fun ride. That being said, it only went down hill from there.

 

[Juxtapose]

Actually...yes.

The White Lotus Society is the organization that Raiden and the Great Kung Lao founded in order to train Earthrealm fighters. Liu left the Organization to represent the Shaolin in the first MK tournament.

Humble...yes. Basic...in his look and personality...sure. In terms of skill...no.

Actually no. As I said, many of the concepts around Liu Kang developed as the lore itself further developed many years later. What I posted was the original incarnation of the character.

Your description of the White Lotus Society came about during the 3D era, this did not exist and said society was only vaguely mentioned during the original trilogy (it was also created by Raiden after Great Kung Lao's death, apparently, not by both of them).

Liu is humble and basic and proves his skill in the Shaolin Tournament itself.

Liu Kang from back in the day is very different from current Raiden as all things point to Liu being orphaned at a young age, then CHOSEN by Raiden early on for [insert reason here], and then him being trained under Raiden, Bo Rai Cho, and many other masters for the purpose of ultimately becoming “the best...of the best...of the best” (paraphrased from the original MK1 manual).

I meant to illustrate their place in life. New Era Raiden is very similar to original Liu. Humble, simple, and with a modest profession (farmer vs fisherman). New Era Raiden has been trained by Madam Bo (along with Kung Lao) for all his life and watched over by Fire God Liu Kang. He is then trained intensively by Liu and the Shaolin.

For Liu himself, Bo Rai Cho did not exist in the original trilogy, and didn't appear until a decade after Liu Kang debuted. That's quite a stretch for paraphrasing from the original game's manual unless I'm misunderstanding you.

I just want to say here that ALL the hero fighters in MK were “chosen” by Raiden in the early MK games to participate in MK. It was never happenstance that these characters came together as they all proved themselves at some point to stand where they stood.

Again, this was added in to the lore later when it was further developed. Raiden was originally a god invited to the tournament by Shang. He had no mentor role to Liu at all. Even in Mortal Kombat II, this wasn't the case. For Mortal Kombat 3, Raiden protects the souls of his chosen champions; the first time in the lore we see him taking such a role.

It's been a while since I read the original mail order comic, but as I recall Cage was invited to the tournament, Sonya went there pursuing Kano and got captured, and Liu went to represent the Shaolin. Nothing at all about Raiden choosing them as that didn't exist yet.

Liu was set up from the beginning to be the ultimate weapon / final solution / final chance against Outworld as those were the stakes through MK3, and maybe MK4. The stakes in the first MK game were VASTLY greater than what was shown in the beginning of MK1.

No he wasn't, certainly not for the original trilogy. You had to wait until the next arcade game just to learn who actually won the last game as it was never clear, and for a long time it was disupted as to who won the Outworld tournament since that wasn't stated in Mortal Kombat 3.

My only point was that MK exists in multiple mediums, which include comics. While the Malibu comics are not canon, and neither are the MKX comics (maybe), the official comics do A LOT to set the stage of the universe.

Yes, true, though keep in mind much of that media is not canon.


Overall though, you seem to be taking a lot of terms and plot points that were developed several years after the franchise was already a huge success, and retro-actively applying them to the original, less developed lore as if they were already established, which isn't accurate.

 

[Chubbuddy]

MK1 gameplay is good. Everything else is bad. That's my opinion lol.

 

[Onilordasmodeus]

Actually no. As I said, many of the concepts around Liu Kang developed as the lore itself further developed many years later. What I posted was the original incarnation of the character.

Your description of the White Lotus Society came about during the 3D era, this did not exist and said society was only vaguely mentioned during the original trilogy (it was also created by Raiden after Great Kung Lao's death, apparently, not by both of them).

Liu is humble and basic and proves his skill in the Shaolin Tournament itself.

I know what you posted, and it wasn't the full context of the character. Why are you cherry picking just the original MK?

I meant to illustrate their place in life. New Era Raiden is very similar to original Liu. Humble, simple, and with a modest profession (farmer vs fisherman). New Era Raiden has been trained by Madam Bo (along with Kung Lao) for all his life and watched over by Fire God Liu Kang. He is then trained intensively by Liu and the Shaolin.

For Liu himself, Bo Rai Cho did not exist in the original trilogy, and didn't appear until a decade after Liu Kang debuted. That's quite a stretch for paraphrasing from the original game's manual unless I'm misunderstanding you.

For all intents and purposes, Bo Rai Cho was just one of many of the unnamed masters who taught Liu Kang before the first tournament. Bo then was later fleshed out. What is your point?

Regardless, the point still stands with OG Liu vs MK1 Raiden, the stakes were different, their purposes were different, and even their origins are completely different. Sure, relatively speaking, they grew up in the same time frame in Earthrealm (albeit in different timelines) and had similar stated professions, but they have very different upbringings (Raiden grew up with family alongside Kung Lao being trained by Madam Bo, where an orphaned Liu presumably grew up with the Shaolin, moved on to the White Lotus, and then went back). It was drilled into Liu, and other Shaolin/White Lotus what the MK Tourney was, and the stakes at hand. People in his era grew up aspiring to be MK Champ, where MK1 Raiden, nor MK1 Kung Lao, had no such drive.

But, whatever...

Again, this was added in to the lore later when it was further developed. Raiden was originally a god invited to the tournament by Shang. He had no mentor role to Liu at all. Even in Mortal Kombat II, this wasn't the case. For Mortal Kombat 3, Raiden protects the souls of his chosen champions; the first time in the lore we see him taking such a role.

It's been a while since I read the original mail order comic, but as I recall Cage was invited to the tournament, Sonya went there pursuing Kano and got captured, and Liu went to represent the Shaolin. Nothing at all about Raiden choosing them as that didn't exist yet.

Again, what is your point with trying to correct me to what the original MK1 lore said? I am talking about "MK Lore" not specifically Original MK1 lore, or just the lore up to MK2. The original lore grew and grew, game after game, to become a sprawling universe. What is your objective here in trying to limit the conversation?

No he wasn't, certainly not for the original trilogy. You had to wait until the next arcade game just to learn who actually won the last game as it was never clear, and for a long time it was disupted as to who won the Outworld tournament since that wasn't stated in Mortal Kombat 3.

He was. As each game unfolded, we learned this was the case. What are you trying to prove here?

Yes, true, though keep in mind much of that media is not canon.

Overall though, you seem to be taking a lot of terms and plot points that were developed several years after the franchise was already a huge success, and retro-actively applying them to the original, less developed lore as if they were already established, which isn't accurate.

Your mind, the way you come at the MK lore, is interesting to me. Do you not see the MK lore as a greater narrative? Do you just see it as multiple sequential stories that have little / nothing to do with each other?

• When Bo Rai Cho was introduced in MKDA, does that NOT inform us that he trained Liu before the OG tournament?
• When Daegon was introduced in MKA with his motive to find Taven and thus he created the Red Dragon, does that not trickle down to Mavado from MKDA and how the Red Dragon is from which the Black Dragon was birthed, which then would take us back to MK1/special forces to Kano and his chaotic Black Dragon organization?
• When it was stated that Raiden was the protector of Earthrealm, does that not retcon / supersede what was said in the original game?

MK is a sprawling universe due to the fact that newer stores and themes call back on the prior stories and themes and build upon them. To silo the stories into presumably 12+ different stories / universes (presumably what you are doing) is just strange to me.

Or are you just stuck on the fact that I said "from the beginning..."

 

[Dankster Morgan]

You wrote a whole bunch of words only for me to tell you that you really need to watch less anime and go outside.

Kung Jin etc are able to defeat the characters they're able to beat in the story because while they're inexperienced, they're still highly trained warriors.

If you can accept that Stryker is one of Raiden's chosen warriors and has the potential to beat Shao Kahn(Stryker has an arcade ending, after all), then you selectively choosing to disbelieve in Cassie is silly.

It's not that one of us is choosing to turn off our brains or whatever, it's that one of us has realistic expectations of what Mortal Kombat - a very silly fighting game where normal humans can punch cyborgs to death - and you have let decades of anime and Cinema Sins tier YouTube media analysis rot your brain into mush.

Touch grass.

For the record, I think the writing is absolutely horrendous, but just keeping it a buck, Kung Jin should on paper be one of the strongest fighters. He's cousin to Kung Lao who is a bad mf, and trained by the same people that produced him and Liu Kang. He still loses to Sub-Zero in the story mode, who with his ninjas dominates Kotal's army later in MKX, so it tracks. The real issue is that the bad guys are pussies and there's no real stakes.

I don't know how much better they could do in a fighting game, the writing can only be "so" good. They'd have to give MK license to a different studio to make more of a straight up action game which would be cool. MK1 made me never wanna support NRS again, but I like the MK property and think a shadow of mordor / arkham style, or a DMC / old school God of War, or even new God of War format would fit, or even a freaking souls like. It'll never happen, but I'd like it.

 

[Juxtapose]

and it wasn't the full context of the character. Why are you cherry picking just the original MK?

I originally started replying by breaking out your quotes and tackling each in turn, but that felt disjointed so I'll summarize in bulk instead and reply to your overall last post as a whole:

I think you have a very fixed view of the overall narrative and you view certain things, like "power levels" as people call them, in very black or white ways. Your take on the lore is very static and doesn't seem to take into account the fluid nature of the narrative as a body of work , something created by writters making a video game's story.

A primary example is your view on Liu Kang. You claim he's always been the chosen one and is destined for greatness and is more powerful then most of the characters he's defeated. While he's evolved into that as the story has progressed (certainly during the 3D era, who's retcons and themes you seem to really love), the reality is that's not how his character originally began, nor did this become a thing for several years (your own screenshot of his Mortal Kombat 3 bio declares him as the "Shaolin Champion" only, so the "chosen one" concept still wasn't a thing at this time). His "power level" is not static as you claim, but rather evolved as the developers and writers desired to make him a more powerful force in the story.

Thus, this makes him comparable to new timeline Kung Jin, or New Era Raiden. Not in direct history, but rather in character type for the story.

Raiden was heavily retconned from the original trilogy to be a completely different character, a god protector and ultimately the protector of Earth itself. He wasn't always that way, the narrative evolved over time and needed him to be such, so he was retconned to be that way.

The Mortal Kombat story has never been the most consistent I'm afraid, as enjoyable as it's been. It's always been changing, for better or for worse.

The impression I get, is you're also taking this very personally, which is a shame as I'm not trying to offend/insult you, and I doubt @chrisisnice is trying to insult you either. It does seem that you are trying to insult us and to dismiss our points, no matter how valid, because they clash with your own views and for whatever reason that's simply unacceptable to you. And again, that's a shame.

If that's how you choose to look at Mortal Kombat and how you enjoy the universe, that's absolutely cool, but there's no need to lash out over a video game's story.

Take care.

 

[YagamiFire]

No he wasn't, certainly not for the original trilogy. You had to wait until the next arcade game just to learn who actually won the last game as it was never clear, and for a long time it was disupted as to who won the Outworld tournament since that wasn't stated in Mortal Kombat 3.

This is inaccurate. The Mortal Kombat and Mortal Kombat II comics were written by Tobias and are canon.

In them, Liu Kang has been training for years and specifically receives an invitation to fight in the tournament as a representative for the Shaolin. In MK II prequel comic it's specifically said by Liu that they train to save the world. That is explicitly their purpose as representatives of Earthrealm so Liu fulfilled what he'd been training for. In the MK comic he even gets express permission to go fight and is told that he CAN win but only if he's balanced and focused blahblahblah.

The MKII comic also explicitly names Liu Kang as the winner of the tournament. There was no need to speculate or dispute. It was extremely clear about Liu winning. This was all in 1993. This is further elaborated on in MKII itself where Liu Kang's profile outright states he returns after "winning the Shao Lin tournament from Shang Tsung's clutches". That Shaolin tournament is Mortal Kombat (which Shang had seized control over pre-MK, of course).

All this stuff was established by MKII (or even pre-MKII) with Liu Kang as the greatest member of an order specifically trained and designated to combat Outworld. He might as well be the best trained Jedi going to fight Vader. That has VERY 'chosen one' vibes to it without it being an explicit prophecy. I will agree that most of this was not present in the OG MK but a huge amount is added to the story in MKII where Tobias was just writing his balls off.

EDIT:

Just wanted to add concerning the Outworld tournament (I misread this) that we explicitly know the winner of that as well as of MKIII.

Liu Kang's profile states he is the "prime target" of Outworld extermination squads and he is responsible for thwarting Shao's previous schemes. EG He's the winner. It also explicitly calls him the "shaolin champion". This is in reference to the MK tournament (which the Outworld tournament is a part of).

This is further verified in his ending that specifically calls him the "reigning Mortal Kombat champion" pre-MKIII events (it references again his targeting by Shao's kill squads). This is all in-game and it was never in doubt that Liu won MKII as of MKIII.

Also his ending in MKII outright states that Liu defeating Shao was his destiny so take that for what it's worth as 'chosen one' acknowledgment.

 

[Juxtapose]

The Mortal Kombat and Mortal Kombat II comics were written by Tobias and are canon.

Yes they are.

In them, Liu Kang has been training for years and specifically receives an invitation to fight in the tournament as a representative for the Shaolin. In MK II prequel comic it's specifically said by Liu that they train to save the world. That is explicitly their purpose as representatives of Earthrealm so Liu fulfilled what he'd been training for. In the MK comic he even gets express permission to go fight and is told that he CAN win but only if he's balanced and focused blahblahblah.

Of course, that doesn't mean he's a "chosen one" destined for greatness, it was a far more general take then "destiny." He was a monk who trained for the tournament to protect Earth. He then had to go and accomplish his task.

As I recall, he was never actually called the "chosen one" until the 3D era, though I'd need to double check that. I certainly don't recall it ever being mentioned in the original trilogy.

The MKII comic also explicitly names Liu Kang as the winner of the tournament. There was no need to speculate or dispute. It was extremely clear about Liu winning. This was all in 1993. This is further elaborated on in MKII itself where Liu Kang's profile outright states he returns after "winning the Shao Lin tournament from Shang Tsung's clutches". That Shaolin tournament is Mortal Kombat (which Shang had seized control over pre-MK, of course).

You've misunderstood me, so allow me to clarify. In each of the original games, you had to wait until the sequel to find out who won each game. You only knew Liu Kang defeated Shang in Mortal Kombat (1992) due to the attract screen or prequel comic for Mortal Kombat II, there was no way to know from playing Mortal Kombat (1992) itself.

Your above paragraph validates what I'm saying.

All this stuff was established by MKII (or even pre-MKII) with Liu Kang as the greatest member of an order specifically trained and designated to combat Outworld.

Outworld didn't exist until the development of Mortal Kombat II, this concept did not exist originally for Liu Kang. He was being trained for the tournament to defeat Shang.

Liu Kang's profile states he is the "prime target" of Outworld extermination squads and he is responsible for thwarting Shao's previous schemes. EG He's the winner. It also explicitly calls him the "shaolin champion". This is in reference to the MK tournament (which the Outworld tournament is a part of).

It specifically states: "After the Outworld invasion, Liu Kang finds himself the prime target of Kahn's extermination squads. He is the Shaolin Champion and has thwarted Kahn's schemes in the past. Of all the humans, Kang poses the greatest threat to Shao Kahn's rule."

As I mentioned in another post above, it calls him the "Shaolin champion" and not "the chosen one," as that concept didn't exist yet. Being the 3rd game and with the lore further developing, the concept of Liu becoming the prime protagonist is being shown for the first time. This is a narrative development that supports what I've been saying, since this wasn't the case in Mortal Kombat (1992), and while Liu was important in Mortal Kombat II, he wasn't bound up by "destiny" yet. Again, the narrative evolved over the years to bring Liu into priminence more.

For him winning the Outworld Tournament, it mentions he's the Shaolin Champion referencing the Shaolin Tournament, not the Outworld Tournament (as they're seperate things). While it could imply, by defeating Kahn's schemes, that he won Mortal Kombat II, it's not clear and could also only mean the first game. It was unclear enough back in 1995 that it still wasn't certain, and was debated, for years as to who won Mortal Kombat II.

We know now that he did win it, and I believe that was stated in an interview or something back in the day, which ended any debate.

Also his ending in MKII outright states that Liu defeating Shao was his destiny so take that for what it's worth as 'chosen one' acknowledgment.

It says he "... finally realizes that the events that have taken place were all fulfillemnt of his destiny."

No mention of "Chosen One," again, as that concept did not yet exist. It's all still pretty generic/vague, but the concept was taking shape.

 

[YagamiFire]

Of course, that doesn't mean he's a "chosen one" destined for greatness, it was a far more general take then "destiny." He was a monk who trained for the tournament to protect Earth. He then had to go and accomplish his task.

Didn't say he was the chosen one, just that he was flagged as important.

As I recall, he was never actually called the "chosen one" until the 3D era, though I'd need to double check that. I certainly don't recall it ever being mentioned in the original trilogy.

You are correct AFAIK. He was the chosen of the Shaolin as the one Earthrealm rep that knew what was up, but that was it.

You've misunderstood me, so allow me to clarify. In each of the original games, you had to wait until the sequel to find out who won each game. You only knew Liu Kang defeated Shang in Mortal Kombat (1992) due to the attract screen or prequel comic for Mortal Kombat II, there was no way to know from playing Mortal Kombat (1992) itself.

Your above paragraph validates what I'm saying.

Yes, you have to wait until the next game to find out who won. However, the creators did know. And you did not have to wait until MK4 to find out Liu won MKII. That is in MKIII.

Outworld didn't exist until the development of Mortal Kombat II, this concept did not exist originally for Liu Kang. He was being trained for the tournament to defeat Shang.

What? No. Outworld existed since the inception of MK. Goro is referred to as an Outworlder and his profile lists him as Kuatan Prince from Outworld. It absolutely existed pre-MKII.

Liu was trained to defeat the forces of Outworld.

It specifically states: "After the Outworld invasion, Liu Kang finds himself the prime target of Kahn's extermination squads. He is the Shaolin Champion and has thwarted Kahn's schemes in the past. Of all the humans, Kang poses the greatest threat to Shao Kahn's rule."

As I mentioned in another post above, it calls him the "Shaolin champion" and not "the chosen one," as that concept didn't exist yet. Being the 3rd game and with the lore further developing, the concept of Liu becoming the prime protagonist is being shown for the first time. This is a narrative development that supports what I've been saying, since this wasn't the case in Mortal Kombat (1992), and while Liu was important in Mortal Kombat II, he wasn't bound up by "destiny" yet. Again, the narrative evolved over the years to bring Liu into priminence more.

Liu becoming the prime antagonist is blatantly untrue. He was always the primary protagonist since the inception. Tobias has stated this outright, it's been mentioned several times and all of the framing of the narrative points to him as the protagonist. He is the first hero character we're introduced to, he has the most investment in the tournament (as well as knowledge of it), and he was always planned to be the winner of the first game.

For him winning the Outworld Tournament, it mentions he's the Shaolin Champion referencing the Shaolin Tournament, not the Outworld Tournament (as they're seperate things). While it could imply, by defeating Kahn's schemes, that he won Mortal Kombat II, it's not clear and could also only mean the first game. It was unclear enough back in 1995 that it still wasn't certain, and was debated, for years as to who won Mortal Kombat II.

The Outworld Tournament and Shaolin Tournament are the same thing. They are both the Mortal Kombat tournament. Also you ignored the fact that his ending blatantly refers to him as the reigning champion of Mortal Kombat, which necessarily means he won MKII...and it does so BEFORE he wins MKIII in the description of events. As of MKIII, Liu is explicitly the 2-time winner of Mortal Kombat, having won MK1 and MKII.

We know now that he did win it, and I believe that was stated in an interview or something back in the day, which ended any debate.

No, the debate was ended in MKIII.

It says he "... finally realizes that the events that have taken place were all fulfillemnt of his destiny."

No mention of "Chosen One," again, as that concept did not yet exist. It's all still pretty generic/vague, but the concept was taking shape.

I didn't say it called him the Chosen One. I specifically said it laid out his victory in MKII as tied to destiny...which would obviously be later developed in the NRS era into the chosen-one concept. Potato potahto.

 

[Juxtapose]

Didn't say he was the chosen one, just that he was flagged as important.

Fair. And his importance increased as the franchise developed further.

What? No. Outworld existed since the inception of MK. Goro is referred to as an Outworlder and his profile lists him as Kuatan Prince from Outworld. It absolutely existed pre-MKII.

Liu was trained to defeat the forces of Outworld.

Ah, you're correct, Outworld is referenced in the comic's bio for Goro. I had forgotten! I believe that's the only place it's mentioned until Mortal Kombat II. Correct me if I'm mistaken.

Liu becoming the prime antagonist is blatantly untrue.

You mean protagonist, correct?

Tobias has stated this outright...

Do you recall where? I remember Ed discussing how the concept of Liu was originally a Bruce Lee rip-off, someone so simple that his "grandmother" could play as him (thus simple F,F motions for his specials).

The Outworld Tournament and Shaolin Tournament are the same thing.

No they are not, they are different tournaments. The Shaolin Tournament is the official one that Shang gained control off. The Outworld tournament, from Mortal Kombat II's attract mode: "Shang Tsung's new plan is to lure his enemies to compete in the Outworld where they will meet certain death by Shao Kahn himself."

New plan, new tournament.

Also you ignored the fact that his ending blatantly refers to him as the reigning champion of Mortal Kombat, which necessarily means he won MKII...

I'm not ignoring anything, certainly not intentionally. For the above and his Mortal Kombat 3 ending, again, it was ambigious at the time if this meant only the Shaolin Tournament, the formal Mortal Kombat tournament, or not. As I mentioned, it was not clear and was disputed at the time who won Mortal Kombat II. People didn't rightly know!

No, the debate was ended in MKIII.

It was not.

I didn't say it called him the Chosen One. I specifically said it laid out his victory in MKII as tied to destiny...which would obviously be later developed in the NRS era into the chosen-one concept. Potato potahto.

Fair enough.

 

[Art Lean]

What? No. Outworld existed since the inception of MK. Goro is referred to as an Outworlder and his profile lists him as Kuatan Prince from Outworld. It absolutely existed pre-MKII.

That is true: