What's new

Question - D'Vorah What do you think of D'Vorah in the current meta?

TopTierHarley

Kytinn King
Also, to anyone who blocked puddle midscreen, pre patch and now, shame on you. every character can punish her without meter for free. I have a list of every move(s) that gets a character out.

In no way should SQ puddle have 9f of recovery when it's +3. You can't even take advantage of it cause you are still recovering.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Also, to anyone who blocked puddle midscreen, pre patch and now, shame on you. every character can punish her without meter for free. I have a list of every move(s) that gets a character out.

In no way should SQ puddle have 9f of recovery when it's +3. You can't even take advantage of it cause you are still recovering.
i agree, it should go back to its previous recovery, but keep its current + frames of +3
 

TheGangstaFace

Psn, Xbox, Twitter: TheGangstaFace
@HoneyBee you said you can't go all the way with only SQ. But what character in this game at this point can go all the way unless they get a lucky path? Maybe making top 8 with 1 character. But if you're traveling and you want to win, there's not a single character that can win it all. Every character has bad mu's at this point
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
you can't really use it as oki anymore, especially in the corner unless the opponent has shit for wakeup options. Pretty much any setup into puddle there and your eating a armored wake up with very little you can do about it.
Man, I have to think after knocking my opponent down instead of mindlessly cutting off all the it options with Puddle.

IN THE TRASH BIN
 

Rude

You will serve me in The Netherrealm
First of all, congrats to Tekken Master on his performance at NEC. He played great with SQ and it's without a doubt the reason everyone is talking about her.

A lot of people are hyping SQ up but cause TM 'made top 8 with her' but he only beat one top player (foxy) with her and had to switch for quite a lot of other games once he realized SQ won't cut it. And tbh, I think foxy let him get away with a lot in that set but that's not important.

Pros of SQ:
F1 is a 12f advancing mid that can be used to start pressure or hit confirm into big damage with a bar
Great space control
Great AA against jump ins
Overhead and low mix ups can be made safe
Decent stagger pressure

Cons of SQ:
Terrible defensive options
- fastest poke is 8f, armor attack has 1 hit, super punishable and low damage output
Anything into puddle on block is a huge gimmick and can be avoided/punished by everyone
Oki game is very weak
- puddle on oki is punishable always with armored wakeup and when blocked, barely plus
- no armor breaking capabilities besides b12 which is unsafe
Skill required to play the character is far beyond the majority of other characters for little reward
F11 whiffs on hit or block at max range
Anti-crossover capabilities are weak
Little to no winning MUs
Struggles against zoning

SQ is 'good' in a game with 'great' and 'amazing' characters/variations. Yes, it's possible to win with her but I believe a win with her is done by seriously outplaying your opponent and/or getting away with gimmicks.

SQ alone will rarely be able to crack the top 8 spot, almost certainly not make top 3 and will certainly never win a major.
Her fastest poke is d1 at 7frames...
 
Strong offense, strong space control and footsie tools to compensate for the stamina nerfs and overall patch changes. Not having things like safe armor is a blow, but her 8f d1 is fine, just a little more patience is key. D'vorah up close is dangerous once it's her turn. She's still very strong, and also much, much more balanced.
 
Last edited:

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
Man, I have to think after knocking my opponent down instead of mindlessly cutting off all the it options with Puddle.

IN THE TRASH BIN
still would have to think, they could armor any follow up.

Sorceror/Summoner has a better corner game now anyways tho.
 

Invincible Salads

Seeker of knowledge
I guess we're forgetting that she could break armor. Nbd.

But yeah, Sorcerer definitely does, Summoner too.

Quan is A1 Hot Sauce.
the armor break wasnt that bad because it required her doing d1, Subzero could do it prepatch via clone and either overhead or low. With 2 Hits of armor on a lot of specials it'd be irrelevant now anyways.
 

Awkward Sloth

Lamest Harley, still better sloth than Jer
You're mistaken Rude, d1 is 8f. Her and Tremor have the slowest pokes in the game. She also has the only mid d3, though I'm told Kenshi used to have one as well.
I was gonna bring up the point that it shouldn't be a low cause it hits so far buuuuut Predator and Alien's longreaching pokes exist so change d3 to hit low. Fuck it.
 

Second Saint

A man with too many names.
I was gonna bring up the point that it shouldn't be a low cause it hits so far buuuuut Predator and Alien's longreaching pokes exist so change d3 to hit low. Fuck it.
You wouldn't be the first to argue that, and I never really got the point for those exact reasons. There have to be at least a dozen or more d4's that are greater or equal in range to her d3.
 

Wazminator

twitch.tv/Wazminator
First of all, congrats to Tekken Master on his performance at NEC. He played great with SQ and it's without a doubt the reason everyone is talking about her.

A lot of people are hyping SQ up but cause TM 'made top 8 with her' but he only beat one top player (foxy) with her and had to switch for quite a lot of other games once he realized SQ won't cut it. And tbh, I think foxy let him get away with a lot in that set but that's not important.

Pros of SQ:
F1 is a 12f advancing mid that can be used to start pressure or hit confirm into big damage with a bar
Great space control
Great AA against jump ins
Overhead and low mix ups can be made safe
Decent stagger pressure

Cons of SQ:
Terrible defensive options
- fastest poke is 8f, armor attack has 1 hit, super punishable and low damage output
Anything into puddle on block is a huge gimmick and can be avoided/punished by everyone
Oki game is very weak
- puddle on oki is punishable always with armored wakeup and when blocked, barely plus
- no armor breaking capabilities besides b12 which is unsafe
Skill required to play the character is far beyond the majority of other characters for little reward
F11 whiffs on hit or block at max range
Anti-crossover capabilities are weak
Little to no winning MUs
Struggles against zoning

SQ is 'good' in a game with 'great' and 'amazing' characters/variations. Yes, it's possible to win with her but I believe a win with her is done by seriously outplaying your opponent and/or getting away with gimmicks.

SQ alone will rarely be able to crack the top 8 spot, almost certainly not make top 3 and will certainly never win a major.
I'm gonna have to chime in here on your Cons side of SQ.. Why should we have good defense when our offense is still ridiculously good combined with the space control she has, if people are getting in on you with that d3 and d2, then its fine for us to have to hold some pressure, it's fair.

- Her Oki game is still very strong, safe 5050s and strong stagger / + frame pressure...
- B12 being unsafe is also fine, why should we have a safe armour breaking 5050?
- Anti crossover capabilities, S1 & D2 are SUPER consistent, no character can jump over D'Vorah for free, if S1 doesn't work, D2 will.
- Struggles against zoning, yes this is a thing, but again... its fair. If she had no weaknesses she would be retarded.


The character is good and I just told you why.
 

Take$$$

gotta take it to make it
Sorry for the late reply, stuff irl etc.

I don't really know where to start, so I'll just give some explanations that were brought up at NEC. Mostly going to be talking about SQ, but a lot of stuff applies to BM as well since that variation is also garbo. Mostly going to be focusing on why she's lacking since it's late af but I want to get this post out, and even though I haven't read through the thread, I'm assuming people have already brought up her pros.

-Her fastest poke is 8 frames, bad.
-Her armor is still bad
-She has pretty much no defensive options outside of block until it's your turn
-Safe 50/50s and her pressure are alright I guess, but tons of other characters do things she does but better. In any other game she'd be great, but in this game she's just lacking compared to (almost)everyone else, thus she's bad. Other characters just also have more in general even if they're missing pressure or 50/50s.
-F11 still has issues
-If you have a bar you can get out of everything w/ puddle that she tries to do on your wakeup 100% of the time, and depending on the circumstances you have meterless options. Plus she's only like +3 if you block it anyway.
-Relies heavily on gimmicks and people not knowing how to fight her to win.

Even though foxy disagrees, he came up with some good stuff that would help her if by some miracle they tossed out a small fix.
 

Tweedy

Noob
Idk what i'm missing with D'vorah. I think Swarm Queen is top 10.

I just really don't understand why she isn't. Safe launching 50/50s, big damage, a great mid, top D4, top anti airs, etc.

Her armor went from being abysmal in the last meta, to below average, don't you think? A lot of characters are rocking with armor that doesn't launch and is unsafe. It's not like she has to fight against characters that have armor that launches into 30%+, like before. This also helped her cancel pressure a little bit. You don't have to worry about launching armor when doing something that doesn't jail, off of F112 wgc.

The D1 thing isn't something that I really understand. It's 8 frames and -3 on block. Would you really trade safe launching 50/50s for a 7 frame D1 that's -3 on block? I don't feel like that 1 frame is such a big deal on this version. Maybe i'm wrong.

Inb4 "why don't you use D'vorah"

She's hard to use. I like potatoes. Baked with cheese and bacon.
 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
It's not like she has to fight against characters that have armor that launches into 30%+, like before.
She still does tho, especially Kitana.

Yea they have to spend 2 bars to do it now but it's still a threat.

Not saying D'Vorah is bad or anything, just saying that threat is still there when it comes to launchers
 

myri

Time Warrior
If your best argument is her armour is bad and she can't get free oki with puddle then I think you're really reaching when you say this character is bad. Characters are allowed to have weaknesses, in this case D'vorah's below average defence is compensated by her still very much above average offense.