Question - D'Vorah What do you think of D'Vorah in the current meta?

[Invincible Salads]

Okay I'm about ready to lab her puddle cuz I'm tired of people saying it's pretty bad now even tho you see players still using it. If it was nearly as bad as people are saying it was, you'd never see it outside of combo extension.

you can't really use it as oki anymore, especially in the corner unless the opponent has shit for wakeup options. Pretty much any setup into puddle there and your eating a armored wake up with very little you can do about it.

 

[CrazyFingers]

you can't really use it as oki anymore, especially in the corner unless the opponent has shit for wakeup options. Pretty much any setup into puddle there and your eating a armored wake up with very little you can do about it.

Armor beats a ton of Oki setups except for normal into armor OS's. That's just a thing in this game now.

 

[Invincible Salads]

Armor beats a ton of Oki setups except for normal into armor OS's. That's just a thing in this game now.

but before she would recover in time to block, and with puddle being only + a few frames on block, dunno why the recovery needed to be hit too.

 

[CrazyFingers]

but before she would recover in time to block, and with puddle being only + a few frames on block, dunno why the recovery needed to be hit too.

Okay and before the patch we had a bunch of other dumb stuff too. She got normalized, that's all. The puddle is fine.

 

[Wigy]

Wait you're saying if D'Vorah did a string into puddle on block, and if FT jumped, he got punished for it? How?

A knockdown midscreen into puddle, mainly the b21 ender, could easily be avoided by backdashing. Yea it was a mind game but it wasn't a guaranteed setup for her and if she was wrong, she got punished.


A string into puddle screamed "punish me with armor" imo. It's so slow so idk why people respected it so much after a block string. Now idk what blood god Kotal would do lol, or someone who had slow armor back then.



Idk man. Nothing, absolutely NOTHING jailed into puddle on block or hit. F22 is plus a million on hit and even that could be jumped. F112 is super plus on block and could be jumped. D4 on hit could be jumped. If she did it in the neutral, you could literally run up and punish. People feared it way too much because of what it caused on block and hit, but with how easy it was to avoid, I didn't feel sorry for people who blocked it or failed avoiding it


The corner was a different story tho lol. THAT was dumb(talking about the knockdown setup)

If you backdashed you'd eat the ex beatle at least on block into another swarm, this is what i mean you have to claw your way out of eating a blockstring anywheeere

You had the swarm used on block randomly and u have to react to it, unless your character has a punisher that advances forward -for instance like jc's f3, it was a bit of a nightmare. jump overs would get antiaired easily so you had to use a grounded punish.

Ferr torr also had terrible armour on knockdown.

On paper it was a lot less stupid. In actuality you had to punish swarm when it could come out a bunch of places While reacting to staggers, 50/50s db4 grabs etc.

 

[CrazyFingers]

If you backdashed you'd eat the ex beatle at least on block into another swarm, this is what i mean you have to claw your way out of eating a blockstring anywheeere

You had the swarm used on block randomly and u have to react to it, unless your character has a punisher that advances forward -for instance like jc's f3, it was a bit of a nightmare. jump overs would get antiaired easily so you had to use a grounded punish.

Ferr torr also had terrible armour on knockdown.

On paper it was a lot less stupid. In actuality you had to punish swarm when it could come out a bunch of places While reacting to staggers, 50/50s db4 grabs etc.

He could get out of puddle with F32 pretty consistently on block with enough practice.

 

[x-azeez]

But didn't you hear that convincing anecdotal evidence of "Honeybee and Tekken Master say she's trash"

Actually ... Tekken Master thinks SQ Dvorah is bad now.

on the other hand ... i don't think SQ is bad. i get demolished everyday by his SQ

 

[Indecisive]

We have people saying she sucks and thats it and people saying she is good and thats it. Great arguments.Only a few people said something note worthy on each side but both where somewhat ignored or said nope you are wrong.

Im more inclined to believe the people who actually play the character and people who know the MU. Its still funny that nobody has considered maybe tekken master is just really good and outplayed a lot of people with Debbie. But again NOPE. Shes strong as fuck. Cant be terrible.

 

[x TeeJay o]

I'm gonna keep it short and simple, I've played all 3 variations of D'Vorah almost everyday since the patch, overall her footsies are still one of the best if not the best in the whole game. F1, F2, D3,D4, her d2 and her run speed combined make her easily one of the best footsie based characters.

On top of that she has Safe 5050s (in SQ) and psuedo safe/hard to punish 5050s in other variations, high damage from hit confirms, jailing cancels still, super solid all round character.

Enough of the downplay pls

I agree w everything except the ''best footsies in the game'' she has one of the best yes but um Shinnok,Cassie,Grandmaster Sub,Alien,Kano,Ninjutsu Scorpion.. they all have better footsies than her in my humble opinion. Her second hit of f11 whiffs SOMETIMES, f2 is very good but it's not on the level of aliens b3, ninjutsu f2,Cassie's b1. Her pokes are mad sexy though but you aren't going to win in MKX by out poking people this isn't SFV traditional footsies like that is sort of a moot point. Not saying this game doesn't have it, I'm just saying having great pokes doesn't always mean you're a great character. Either way Debbie is a GOOD character period



P.S. If any of u downplay gods say hellsparks is unreliable or jump over them or run through them, I hope you consider maybe taking the game out of your system and never playing again ^.^

 

[Wigy]

He could get out of puddle with F32 pretty consistently on block with enough practice.

Yeah totally true and i did. Ferr torr was an example of the knockdown stupidity not the block one.

 

[Wigy]

Main thing is you're forced to jump or backdash in which case she can push you and you have to hold it.


Talking prepatch here btw

 

[Take$$$]

I'm still all kinds of exhausted after the fun that was NEC, but expect a serious reply addressing stuff soon.

 

[CrazyFingers]

I agree w everything except the ''best footsies in the game'' she has one of the best yes but um Shinnok,Cassie,Grandmaster Sub,Alien,Kano,Ninjutsu Scorpion.. they all have better footsies than her in my humble opinion. Her second hit of f11 whiffs SOMETIMES, f2 is very good but it's not on the level of aliens b3, ninjutsu f2,Cassie's b1. Her pokes are mad sexy though but you aren't going to win in MKX by out poking people this isn't SFV traditional footsies like that is sort of a moot point. Not saying this game doesn't have it, I'm just saying having great pokes doesn't always mean you're a great character. Either way Debbie is a GOOD character period



P.S. If any of u downplay gods say hellsparks is unreliable or jump over them or run through them, I hope you consider maybe taking the game out of your system and never playing again ^.^

I mean...he literally said "one of the best in the game" so...you're agreeing?

 

[x TeeJay o]

I mean...he literally said "one of the best in the game" so...you're agreeing?

Shhhhhhhhh

 

[myri]

I want to see tekkenmaster or honeybee come in here and post themselves saying this character is bad instead of people saying "oh I asked him". The only top D'vorah player to come into this thread and state his opinion has been Waz and he agrees that D'vorah is still very solid.

 

[A F0xy Grampa]

Tekkenmaster thinks dvorah sucks too. Just asked him straight up lol.

So tekkenmaster and honeybee both agree she's bad

Well that's a lie, tekken master doesn't play characters that suck lol

 

[Take$$$]

Well that's a lie, tekken master doesn't play characters that suck lol

I straight up have a witness or two to him saying it tho.

 

[x TeeJay o]

I want to see tekkenmaster or honeybee come in here and post themselves saying this character is bad instead of people saying "oh I asked him". The only top D'vorah player to come into this thread and state his opinion has been Waz and he agrees that D'vorah is still very solid.

Honeybee has been very vocal about his disdain for SQ now lol. He really does thinks she's bad haha

Edit: I actually remember him saying specifically that he thinks venomous is the best(ew)

 

[myri]

Honeybee has been very vocal about his disdain for SQ now lol. He really does thinks she's bad haha

Edit: I actually remember him saying specifically that he thinks venomous is the best(ew)

I remember him saying that the week after the patch hit, has that opinion remained consistent until now?

Look, tekkenmaster is a smart player, who plays to win, obviously. He travels huge distances to these events and plays to get top 8 and take the top spot, no one who is doing that and has the game knowledge that he does (the kind that lets you go toe to toe with sonicfox) is going to deliberately pick a bad character that they think isn't good enough to get them to top 8. Tekkenmaster has the time and the skill to play any character he wishes so of course he is going to pick one he knows is good and can use well. It's like foxy said, tekkenmaster isn't going to make a dumb decision and pick a bad character when he's come all this way to win the top 8.

Edit: also we didn't see what War God Kotal from him at NEC did we? That was a character that did get hit quite hard in the patch so if tekkenmaster is playing bad characters why aren't we seeing War God again?

 

[x-azeez]

Well that's a lie, tekken master doesn't play characters that suck lol

I straight up have a witness or two to him saying it tho.

Tekken Master considers Dvorah a bad character now.

 

[HoneyBee]

First of all, congrats to Tekken Master on his performance at NEC. He played great with SQ and it's without a doubt the reason everyone is talking about her.

A lot of people are hyping SQ up but cause TM 'made top 8 with her' but he only beat one top player (foxy) with her and had to switch for quite a lot of other games once he realized SQ won't cut it. And tbh, I think foxy let him get away with a lot in that set but that's not important.

Pros of SQ:
F1 is a 12f advancing mid that can be used to start pressure or hit confirm into big damage with a bar
Great space control
Great AA against jump ins
Overhead and low mix ups can be made safe
Decent stagger pressure

Cons of SQ:
Terrible defensive options
- fastest poke is 8f, armor attack has 1 hit, super punishable and low damage output
Anything into puddle on block is a huge gimmick and can be avoided/punished by everyone
Oki game is very weak
- puddle on oki is punishable always with armored wakeup and when blocked, barely plus
- no armor breaking capabilities besides b12 which is unsafe
Skill required to play the character is far beyond the majority of other characters for little reward
F11 whiffs on hit or block at max range
Anti-crossover capabilities are weak
Little to no winning MUs
Struggles against zoning

SQ is 'good' in a game with 'great' and 'amazing' characters/variations. Yes, it's possible to win with her but I believe a win with her is done by seriously outplaying your opponent and/or getting away with gimmicks.

SQ alone will rarely be able to crack the top 8 spot, almost certainly not make top 3 and will certainly never win a major.

 

[myri]

First of all, congrats to Tekken Master on his performance at NEC. He played great with SQ and it's without a doubt the reason everyone is talking about her.

A lot of people are hyping SQ up but cause TM 'made top 8 with her' but he only beat one top player (foxy) with her and had to switch for quite a lot of other games once he realized SQ won't cut it. And tbh, I think foxy let him get away with a lot in that set but that's not important.

Pros of SQ:
F1 is a 12f advancing mid that can be used to start pressure or hit confirm into big damage with a bar
Great space control
Great AA against jump ins
Overhead and low mix ups can be made safe
Decent stagger pressure

Cons of SQ:
Terrible defensive options
- fastest poke is 8f, armor attack has 1 hit, super punishable and low damage output
Anything into puddle on block is a huge gimmick and can be avoided/punished by everyone
Oki game is very weak
- puddle on oki is punishable always with armored wakeup and when blocked, barely plus
- no armor breaking capabilities besides b12 which is unsafe
Skill required to play the character is far beyond the majority of other characters for little reward
F11 whiffs on hit or block at max range
Anti-crossover capabilities are weak
Little to no winning MUs
Struggles against zoning

SQ is 'good' in a game with 'great' and 'amazing' characters/variations. Yes, it's possible to win with her but I believe a win with her is done by seriously outplaying your opponent and/or getting away with gimmicks.

SQ alone will rarely be able to crack the top 8 spot, almost certainly not make top 3 and will certainly never win a major.

Thanks for coming and giving your opinion, really appreciate it.

That's basically what I would say, that she is still a good solid character but lost a lot of her over the top stuff, however in no way is she a bad character, she's just more honest now and others have risen to the top.

Edit: as in SQ and D'vorah in general took some hits that brought her down to mid tier, but don't keep acting like she's a bottom three character.

 

[TopTierHarley]

ferr torr legit just had to hold it midscreen too also, jump so horrid if you try to jump swarm you get antiaired or caught by a beatle toss etc.

it forced you to move EVERY knockdown or eat a blockstring into mixup, and your movement options could be countered without much of a read.

Without a decent move that pushed you forward a bit while punishing swarm could be a nightmare on block too.

F3, you're welcome

 

[TopTierHarley]

I'm gonna keep it short and simple, I've played all 3 variations of D'Vorah almost everyday since the patch, overall her footsies are still one of the best if not the best in the whole game. F1, F2, D3,D4, her d2 and her run speed combined make her easily one of the best footsie based characters.

On top of that she has Safe 5050s (in SQ) and psuedo safe/hard to punish 5050s in other variations, high damage from hit confirms, jailing cancels still, super solid all round character.

Enough of the downplay pls

F2 doesn't exist, that string is dead.

 

[HoneyBee]

F2 doesn't exist, that string is dead.

It has some uses still