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Match-up Discussion What character would you say smoke has problems with?

Rickyraws

This mean you don't like me?
Like one that shuts down his options? I'd assume a rushdown, but that can be countered with a linked shake, no?
 
Pure rushdown characters like KL, Kang, and Cage. So long as they sparsely throw projectiles and respect shake or punish it with low strings, there's not much smoke can do versus hyper mega unwavering aggression except get a lucky shake, teleport, or drift away.
 

Lyuben

Sinestro's might!
Pure rushdown characters like KL, Kang, and Cage. So long as they sparsely throw projectiles and respect shake or punish it with low strings, there's not much smoke can do versus hyper mega unwavering aggression except get a lucky shake, teleport, or drift away.
You could try to use Vibration on wakeup?
 
It either won't come out or you get knocked out of it by a poke. A vibration wakeup is very predictable and punishable
 

Lyuben

Sinestro's might!
Wait, does a normal shake parry melee or just projectiles?
Projectiles. Vibration, the enhanced version of Shake will stop melee, except for low specials and low hitting pokes. Except for some reason nightwolf and baraks sweeps dont work.
 

Jamison

Noob
Pure rushdown characters like KL, Kang, and Cage. So long as they sparsely throw projectiles and respect shake or punish it with low strings, there's not much smoke can do versus hyper mega unwavering aggression except get a lucky shake, teleport, or drift away.
I agree.

Liu Kang and Cage are my bad ones, but the opponent has to be literally dealing out constant pressure. I've played so many Kung Lao players I sometimes can pull out a victory even if they are constantly offensive.
 

PeeJaeys

Sabi
I would say in this order:

Kung Lao
Raiden
Kitana
Cage
Lui Kang

In that order. Though I think Raiden can make number 1 at times. He's just annoying, sorry to RN players.
 
Projectiles. Vibration, the enhanced version of Shake will stop melee, except for low specials and low hitting pokes. Except for some reason nightwolf and baraks sweeps dont work.
Aside from D1, D3, D4, and non-projectile x-rays, there isn't a hard rule for what beats out :en Shake (or Liu Kang and Cyber Sub's parry). To me it looks like the devs just decided which moves they wanted to be unparryable for each character and programmed it that way. There are actually plenty of high hitting specials that will beat :en Shake.

Anyhow, I have a complete list of moves that beat :en Shake in this thread:
http://testyourmight.com/forum/showthread.php?8104-Moves-that-beat-Enhanced-Shake

And Nightwolf's sweep will beat :en Shake. Jade, Kano, Stryker, Sheeva, Quan Chi, Baraka, and Smoke are the characters with sweeps that lose to :en Shake.
 
As dumb as it sounds i've had some trouble with scorpions, that hell fire catches me every time and then it forces me to get close. Not too bad, just that damn hell fire lol
 

PeeJaeys

Sabi
As dumb as it sounds i've had some trouble with scorpions, that hell fire catches me every time and then it forces me to get close. Not too bad, just that damn hell fire lol
Scorpion is Lag tier. How many times have I ex phased out and still got hit with hellfire? Too many.
 
What's the best way to deal with Ermac? I played against one of them and every time I tried to get in to start something I got pushed away again.
 
What's the best way to deal with Ermac? I played against one of them and every time I tried to get in to start something I got pushed away again.
I pissed off a 950/170 Ermac in a Ranked match the other day lol. The trick is to make him come to you and THEN punish him. The way I do this matchup is... spam smoke away at full screen to build meter, throw the odd smoke ball every once in a while to keep him in his place, fake a smoke ball everyonce in a while to with 2. This usually baits them to come to you via teleport. If that is what happens, block, and punish with a full combo, then back away again and repeat. Pisses them off and beats them, my favorite :) Let me know if this helps
 

Ghostal

Noob
EX teleport you can bypass him picking you up, and you can jump kick and grab to beat his wake up if you're quick.
 

Dan

KomboMaker
I pissed off a 950/170 Ermac in a Ranked match the other day lol. The trick is to make him come to you and THEN punish him. The way I do this matchup is... spam smoke away at full screen to build meter, throw the odd smoke ball every once in a while to keep him in his place, fake a smoke ball everyonce in a while to with 2. This usually baits them to come to you via teleport. If that is what happens, block, and punish with a full combo, then back away again and repeat. Pisses them off and beats them, my favorite :) Let me know if this helps
That's correct. Don't be in the mid-distance. Try to be very close or very far. Ermac will always beat Smoke at mid-distance. It's more of a patience match than anything else.

If your oponent is a very good Ermac player, you should punish every single mistake he does because you won't have many oportunities to keep the preassure on him.
 
My personal opinion: rushdown isn't what beats Smoke. What beats Smoke is characters that can make him panic. Smoke is a weird character. He has a tool for everything, but they're all very specific and the player has to know the right tool and when to use it. It's almost impossible to pin him down. Smoke can get out of rushdown in about a dozen different ways. What Smoke CAN'T do is trade shots in melee range with the best rushdown characters in the game. Smoke may deal his damage in melee range, but he STARTS his offense from mid- to far-range. If you want to beat the rushdown gods with Smoke, you've gotta think like Mohammed Ali: float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Don't stand nose-to-nose and slug it out.
 

arydious

Noob
My personal opinion: rushdown isn't what beats Smoke. What beats Smoke is characters that can make him panic. Smoke is a weird character. He has a tool for everything, but they're all very specific and the player has to know the right tool and when to use it. It's almost impossible to pin him down. Smoke can get out of rushdown in about a dozen different ways. What Smoke CAN'T do is trade shots in melee range with the best rushdown characters in the game. Smoke may deal his damage in melee range, but he STARTS his offense from mid- to far-range. If you want to beat the rushdown gods with Smoke, you've gotta think like Mohammed Ali: float like a butterfly, sting like a bee. Don't stand nose-to-nose and slug it out.
Good post, I like that your staying positive. I agree i think smoke has a tool for everything but it is a fact some characters bring out the nerves in smoke players more than others. I personally really hate Raiden, but I only got to play a good raiden once in a blue moon. The last time i played on he spanked me and mop the floor with my electric hair. By the last match we were playing which was match 5 i think, I figured out some good stuff. By baiting Raiden to do the torpedo i was really able to take advantage of him. I also stopped down blocking, He didnt really every hit low and if he did it was a lot less damage then a combo or grab he can pull on me. From just crouching he tried to cross up and i landed the d1 d1 smoke cloud for the win. Next round his nerves were shaky and i completely destroyed him.

The other guy who gives me some problems is Sub Zero. You have to give it to sub he is very well rounded he can sit back and turtle or come in at you and mess up your whole game plan. Again my match history with good subzeros is limited, the guy i Know who mains sub plays me once then leaves cause he doesnt want me to catch on. It really drives me up the wall because i can read about it all day but i need to experience the high level sub zero to really nail it down on what i need to do.
 
Here are mine:

Johnny Cage - I am getting much better at this one. I used to lose pretty consistently to all Cages, but now I take over 50% of my matches against them. Get it get some hits and get the flock out.

Kung Lao - God Tier especially online. He is the only character I will fatality 100% of the time. I do have the match up experience but a good KL is still an up hill battle

Reptile - I hate that his dash is just about nonpunishable. He also can track Smoke down using whiffed dashes like no other character, which is why I have so much trouble with them.

Raiden - Total lag tier with not being able to do anything to punish the teleports. I do beat a lot of Raidens but someone that is really good gives me all sorts of trouble.

Lui Kang - He has several ways to get in and once he does it is hard to get out of the pressure/mixups.

@Arydious - The sub matchup is pretty easy. Stay at the far edge of jump distance, and just be ready to do 3 things. Smoke away from the slide (especially wake up slides), Smoke Bomb the instant you see a clone, and block. Most Subs do blocked strings into clones, which you Smoke Bomb them. If they slide Smoke Away and then punish the slide, it will wiff against the smoke away. Never block low against Sub since he does not have anything low the really hurts.
 

salvificblood

Worst Sub-Zero Ever
@Arydious - The sub matchup is pretty easy. Stay at the far edge of jump distance, and just be ready to do 3 things. Smoke away from the slide (especially wake up slides), Smoke Bomb the instant you see a clone, and block. Most Subs do blocked strings into clones, which you Smoke Bomb them. If they slide Smoke Away and then punish the slide, it will wiff against the smoke away. Never block low against Sub since he does not have anything low the really hurts.
Actually, Sub can make you block low by jailing you with d4 and then going into 21 and 22 pressure.

If you smoke away and try to throw smoke bombs at Sub all the time, you'll end up in the corner if he just walks you down. Once you're in the corner the matchup becomes pretty heavily in Sub's favour. The best way to play against Sub with Smoke is to annoy him with pressure when he gets within jumping distance, and then run away some more.
 
Characters with fast dash cancles and fast normals. RUSHDOWN CHARACTERS GIVE SMOKE THE MOST TROUBLE.
I think Johnny is his worst matchup, But I dont have any real trouble against them becuz I also play Johnny cage myself, what you really want to do with jc is let him make them move and smoke towards behind him, most of his strings go on for a while and then you can smoke bomb him. Also if it is too hard too smoke towards teleport on reaction believe me it works. also try to mix in a lot of jump in kick grabs, your opponent will take the initiative to come at you if you do that.

In short hit him with grabs, sweeps(smoke has a fast one) and then smoke away when he starts his string and let him eat a smoke bomb and do your 29% :D

also after some sweeps you can always try the back 2-3 string to land a 32%. and dont be afraid of his red kick! he will spend meter for minor damage he will use it to get in but smoke can get away from opponents easily