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Wavedashing in MK11? How do you feel about this? Video and Poll and inside!

Does the MK11 version of dash blocking harm the "neutral heavy focus" gameplay that we expected?


  • Total voters
    260
  • Poll closed .

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
Disclaimer: I have been very, very, very high on this game, but this is the first legitimate complaint I have made from a gameplay aspect (barring the ridiculous Fatal Blow from the beta) * My personal thoughts are shared in OP *


As we all know, dash has been significantly buffed in MK11. We also know you can cancel dashes with normals or blocking. In turn, we knew we may be able to somewhat re-create MK9 types of dash blocking with the buff. @xGunShow put together a quick display on the capabilities of the new buffed feature. On this showcase, the result instead comes out like this-


The first thing that screams out is the speed of it. It is mimicking the speed of the MKX run, but also allows you blocking during the run (again, similar-ish to MK9 dash block). From full screen, he's closing the distance in a literal one second. By the time a character like Cetrion lifts up her 46-48 frame startup boulder, Jax would already be punching her in the face for a 35% combo from 3/4 away. When you're Cassie trying to space your far reaching 9F mid based around their tendencies from a bit outside of jump range (the definitive footsie type play), Jacqui can just instantly block into your face and mix you up. It is way too fast, way too safe, and very reminiscent of the early "MKX is the return of the footsies" in 2015 until we actually played it and saw it was anything but.

The second thing is that it looks stupid. It's like a replication of Tekken's, but uglier, faster, and sillier looking. I understand they are attempting to go a bit of a 2D Tekken for MK11, but this wouldn't be that route. From a visual perspective, I can imagine this being mocked by many onlookers in today's gaming climate of high expectations. It's the only 2D game I can think of that would look like this during gameplay.

The third thing, most importantly of all, is that it erases the entire "neutral heavy focus" we were expecting to get. One of the main reasons why the neutral game was so bad in MKX is because too many characters had oppressive pressure combined with the run button. The MK9 dash argument is entirely separate, as many tools in that game were much faster/safer than in MK11. Being able to move like this, the characters built with lots offensive pressure (there are many more than we originally expected) have a massive advantage in this meta. There really isn't a "neutral heavy focus" when you are closing full screen distance in one second, or closing half screen distance in 0.5 seconds.


My first impression is of complete heartbreak. I am trying to understand how this "helps" the "neutral focus" of the game. I don't see it. Is this terrible? Is it an upgrade? Are you meh?

Thoughts?


EDIT: Different character dashes have different speeds and dash-block speed, per @Circus while this may also be an EXPLOIT.

* My early proposed solution would be to make block unable to cancel the dash, but leave normals able to. That will leave the neutral heavy focus in tact as you can use the cancel to extend the range of your normals and the speed of your closure, but at a risk as well *
 
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Circus

Part-Time Kano Hostage
This wavedashing definitely seems like an exploit. It was discovered by Alioune.

It's important to note that different characters have different dash speeds though. The viability on this is also still up in the air.


Edit:

Kotal and Sub's Wavedashes.... wow lol.




How this tech works in footsies:

 
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Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
Not sure if it's wise to implement it into the tournies. What if you run into a zoner?
 

SaltShaker

In Zoning We Trust
It was almost exact same thing in mk9, for some characters who had good forward dashes, it still had strong zoning characters and footsies.
I think why the MK9 comparison does not fit is that the tools, whether footsies or especially zoning, were significantly stronger in MK9 for the mid to top tier characters. Some of those characters in that meta would be utterly broken in this one, and some who are good in this one would be trash AF in MK9, so this mechanic will be that much more powerful in a toned done meta.
 

Tanno

The Fantasy is the Reality of the Mind
* My early proposed solution would be to make block unable to cancel the dash, but leave normals able to. That will leave the neutral heavy focus in tact as you can use the cancel to extend the range of your normals and the speed of your closure, but at a risk as well *
That's no different than the microdash tech. It might be the new arthritis master. lmao
 

NothingPersonal

Are you not entertained!?
I think it's a good change since most of the characters have ridiculous range. This will give more otptions for rushdown. Now they need to make characters with range like Jade safer and we're ready to go. It does look a little fast and that wave dashing is ridiculous, but we'll see how it turns out.
 

vegeta

Saiyan Prince
I'll wait and see how things evolve. Though this is similar to MK9 (dashing blocking) or kind of "worse" than it (wavedashing) These are all first off pre street date and we know nothing of day 1 or week 1 patches that could come through. Also a lot of aspects of this game are different so this may or may not be strong in this game. I'm not making any assumptions about a game that hasn't officially dropped yet or been fully played in tournaments and labbed by large numbers of people
 
I think why the MK9 comparison does not fit is that the tools, whether footsies or especially zoning, were significantly stronger in MK9 for the mid to top tier characters. Some of those characters in that meta would be utterly broken in this one, and some who are good in this one would be trash AF in MK9, so this mechanic will be that much more powerful in a toned done meta.
In order to evaluate meta like that, we need to...I don’t know...Maybe play the game first?! It’s too early. I prefer zoners, and I hated MKX. But a game with strong movement is usually a better game over all. MKX didn’t have good over all movement, it was great for moving forward but you were stuck if you wanted to move backwards. Are backdashes just as fast in mk11?!? Lots of things to consider first.
 

IceNine

Tired, But Strong
While I understand the OP concerns, at the end of the day it's hasty judgments and calls for change that made this happen in the first place. Let's try and be a bit more patient and orient demands for revision around the results of actual gameplay now and in the future. Armchair analysis without proper trial just isn't worthwhile.
 

Pakman

Lawless Victory!
As a game mechanic I actually like wavedashing - it rewards execution (like EWGF's) and adds tension to matches, both as a player and spectator. However, I don't think the game has actually been built with this in mind - certain characters, particularly zoners or those with slow start up moves, are going to get screwed all kinds of ways by this.

If NRS does decide to keep it in, I do hope the roster gets compensated accordingly...but something tells me that sounds like way too much work, and that they'd just patch it out instead...:(

Putting that discussion aside for a second, the wavedash's animations themselves look so horribly janky - I wouldn't be surprised if NRS patches them out day 1 for that reason alone.