Question - Dragons Fire Was Liu (slightly) over-nerfed?

[SidTheHaze]

Noone should be plus on everything , but they should atleast have a few safe options .
Right now liu doesn't have many and even less against small characters .

He doesn't convert for Good damage on his safe options , he doesn't convert off AA if you get an AA lol . Hes got poor wakeups .
He has a very linear game plan really , his mobility feels solid but he is lacking in some very important areas .

Bright side is the game is young and plenty will change , be patched , tweaked , and we have a ton to learn still

Are you.......downplaying liu kang?

 

[WITNESS]

Noone should be plus on everything , but they should atleast have a few safe options .
Right now liu doesn't have many and even less against small characters .

He doesn't convert for Good damage on his safe options , he doesn't convert off AA if you get an AA lol . Hes got poor wakeups .
He has a very linear game plan really , his mobility feels solid but he is lacking in some very important areas .

Bright side is the game is young and plenty will change , be patched , tweaked , and we have a ton to learn still

 

[Phosferrax]

Unnecessary? I mean cmon bro, without the block infinite he's still neutral/plus on everything, the only thing your negative on is your flying kick and the dragon punch ( I think). Whatever "nerf" he got doesn't even matter honestly.

He's minus on quite a few of his previously-thought-to-be neutral normals and strings, his pokes have been nerfed for some reason which will play a part in a few MU's. At the minute he is only neutral on 111, which starts with a high. In Dragon's Fire he's still got block advantage but what about the other variations? The ones that don't do midscreen combos. This frame data nerfs/corrections could have an impact on them more so than DF.

His f21 is plus 1 or 2 on block, his 11f d3 is plus 1 on block. This means that if anyone does a string that is left a neutral, anyone with an 8f or faster d1 can ALWAYS hit me before I can do anything offensive aside from my average armor specials, so now my neutral guessing game revolves around them pressing a button first.

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

at least u can still do f21 after bf2 still lol

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

bf2 mb

 

[cR Xarakamaka]

and why the hell they give him 9 frame d1 lol. almost no point in poking then and only do it if you read they are doing a high string as u may aswell just use ur 9 frame mid

 

[kaseyk]

Yes i am hes not going to be top 10 .

He was 1 overhead it does 7% and he can be hit if blocked .

He has 1 that leads to overhead it can be punished before the overhead comes out . Sadly this 11 portion leads to his high damage combos.

He has 0 options for AA .

He has no good wakeups .

He gets out poked and out ranged .

All normal specials except dragon roar are punishable and that can be low profiled .

His only really good strings are f213 and f44 and b12 , b12xx anything can be armored through . F213 is bad for footsies because at the range thats played the 1 whiffs leaving space for back dash or poked or armored . F44 occasionally whiffs on small characters .

This makes blocking liu very easy as well as handling him , block low and poke cross up , punish specials .

He is good at some things but this partial list of weak points will only be exploited further as the game grows and his cons outweigh his pros

 

[WITNESS]

Yes i am hes not going to be top 10 .

He was 1 overhead it does 7% and he can be hit if blocked .

He has 1 that leads to overhead it can be punished before the overhead comes out . Sadly this 11 portion leads to his high damage combos.

He has 0 options for AA .

He has no good wakeups .

He gets out poked and out ranged .

All normal specials except dragon roar are punishable and that can be low profiled .

His only really good strings are f213 and f44 and b12 , b12xx anything can be armored through . F213 is bad for footsies because at the range thats played the 1 whiffs leaving space for back dash or poked or armored . F44 occasionally whiffs on small characters .

This makes blocking liu very easy as well as handling him , block low and poke cross up , punish specials .

He is good at some things but this partial list of weak points will only be exploited further as the game grows and his cons outweigh his pros

Just stop

 

[kaseyk]

Just stop

There was 1 mistake in my last post , f213 cant be dashed if the 1 whiffs .

The rest is spot on . @WITNESS which of those points do you disagree with ?

Just stop ? Ha give an example why or just read and test them yourself .

 

[WITNESS]

There was 1 mistake in my last post , f213 cant be dashed if the 1 whiffs .

The rest is spot on . @WITNESS which of those points do you disagree with ?

Just stop ? Ha give an example why or just read and test them yourself .

Ive been winning my weeklys and got 2nd at Xanadu monthly (losing to sonicfox) and just won this CFAS monthly for a reason. I tested everything last night and I can still do the same stuff I need to do.

 

[kaseyk]

You out playing people has nothing to do with what we are talking about ...

I also smoke 99% of players as do others on this site .

Someone just did a very similar feat with goro . Does that make goro omg good top 5 ?
Hell no hes likely the worst character in the game .

The game is new liu kang is one of the least played characters and mostly just us kang players really know his blatant flaws but the rest will catch up .
Also no shame in losing to sonicfox .

 

[XAlcarazX]

man wtf why they shit on liu like this. imo he should have a 6-7F D1 his poke game is shit

 

[Ugodimak]

I'm all for downplaying, but please don't turn us into the Kitana community. I know they're a couple and shit, but c'mon...

 

[AssassiN]

There's just way too much downplaying in this thread.

 

[WITNESS]

You out playing people has nothing to do with what we are talking about ...

I also smoke 99% of players as do others on this site .

Someone just did a very similar feat with goro . Does that make goro omg good top 5 ?
Hell no hes likely the worst character in the game .

The game is new liu kang is one of the least played characters and mostly just us kang players really know his blatant flaws but the rest will catch up .
Also no shame in losing to sonicfox .

I know the game is new, I teach the MU, liu kang is fine, learn how to use the instant air fireball for AA, use your sweep and overhead as footsie tools

 

[Doombawkz]

f1 is now no longer a 5f jab (although it seems that no one has 5 frame normals anymore)

Torr does.
#TeamLackey

 

[kaseyk]

I see down/up playing is thrown around , the things were saying about him is facts . I haven't read any of the kitana drama .

We all agree on his most obvious weakness poke and AA . It's there and we have to deal with it never going to change .

If in 5 months i'm way fucking off i would be the first to admit it .

 

[Phosferrax]

I hope no one thinks I'm downplaying...

 

[Ugodimak]

I read in the OP that his overall speed had been nerfed.. Wtf?? Is that really true?

 

[WITNESS]

I read in the OP that his overall speed had been nerfed.. Wtf?? Is that really true?

No he is just the same as before

 

[roosTakk]

There was a patch? Who else was hit? Patch notes?

 

[kaseyk]

I know the game is new, I teach the MU, liu kang is fine, learn how to use the instant air fireball for AA, use your sweep and overhead as footsie tools

Sweep is punishable on block and outside of a read iafb in the range that its a option you get more from just whiff punishing most the cast .

All the people posting in this thread are aware of his tools and execution isnt an issue .

 

[Phosferrax]

I read in the OP that his overall speed had been nerfed.. Wtf?? Is that really true?

No he is just the same as before

Either his speed was nerfed or his frame data was simply corrected, it's impossible to tell really.

Something I need to make clear in the OP.

 

[AssassiN]

I hope no one thinks I'm downplaying...

Nah, not you. I kinda agree they could have left it a bit more +.
But +15 was really stupid. It was an easy tool of getting + chip + meterbuild.

Essentialy do Flying Kick MB and do the block infinite could be your tactic.

 

[MrSunshine]

Uh no that's not true, all of Shinnok's normals for one thing are still the same on startup. The block advantages went down by 1 and cancel advantages went up by 1 however...

lol