Question - Cryomancer Vortex??

[TheEighth]

I come from a 3d fighting game background so I'm not completely familiar with the term. With that out the way, would the following qualify as a vortex setup ; ji2, b12, iceball, bd, ji2 b12.. It leaves the opponent at -22 I believe.. b33 and b2 both come out before they can do anything besides block right? If they guess wrong and you have a bar that's up to 42 more damage added to the initial 22. don't see any reason to go for the guaranteed damage(unless it'll end the round) because its only 10 more. I mainly play online and it breaks people down badly but im not sure how viable it is offline with the overhead being 17 frames which could possibly be blocked on reaction. Any thoughts or suggestions positive or negative it'll only help me in the longrun

 

[xXstealthflameXx]

I come from a 3d fighting game background so I'm not completely familiar with the term. With that out the way, would the following qualify as a vortex setup ; ji2, b12, iceball, bd, ji2 b12.. It leaves the opponent at -22 I believe.. b33 and b2 both come out before they can do anything besides block right? If they guess wrong and you have a bar that's up to 42 more damage added to the initial 22. don't see any reason to go for the guaranteed damage(unless it'll end the round) because its only 10 more. I mainly play online and it breaks people down badly but im not sure how viable it is offline with the overhead being 17 frames which could possibly be blocked on reaction. Any thoughts or suggestions positive or negative it'll only help me in the longrun

For a vortex to be efficient, the instant low and oh options need to be close in start up frames. B3 is much faster than B2, so it's not a vortex against someone who knows what they're doing.

 

[TheEighth]

How close exactly? Is a 3 frame difference not negligible in this instance? Could you delay the b33? Does the b2 just NOT ever land in high level play? Thanks in advance if you answer, I need to know this stuff

 

[xXstealthflameXx]

How close exactly? Is a 3 frame difference not negligible in this instance? Could you delay the b33? Does the b2 just NOT ever land in high level play? Thanks in advance if you answer, I need to know this stuff

3 frames isn't terrible but they can most likely armor through

 

[TheJaquio]

A vortex is a situation where the opponent can only guess between one of usually two options to escape, and a wrong guess resets the situation. It's basically a 50/50 that loops back into itself continuously until the opponent gets out on a correct guess. So, the situation that you proposed is not a vortex solely because hitting the opponent with a B2 always ends in a knockdown and therefore cannot loop back into the guaranteed 50/50 situation.

On another note, a 17 frame move isn't really react-able on any consistent level. First you must consider the amount of lag from your A/V setup, and that Human reaction time is about 1/4 of a second (15 frames). But, it takes additional time for them to distinguish between the high and the low animations, and then respond accordingly by blocking high or low. A 17 frame move would only be reactable by a person with exceptionally quick reflexes responding to a move with a very obvious animation in an A/V setup that has next to no lag.

TLDR: Yes, your setup creates a legit 50/50 situation, but it isn't a vortex.

 

[Braindead]

It's not a vortex because you can't keep loping it - Once you go for a B2 you can't restand them with a B12 and start over.

It's a good setup if you have enough health to take a risk, because the risk/reward of this setup isn't that great. You're doing 19% with b12 xx ice ball, ji2 b12, then you're going for another ~25% combo, but you're risking eating a full combo if they block the b2 and you risk taking some damage if you go for B33.

 

[StevoSuprem0]

This would be considered a 50/50 reset setup, as others have indicated, due to the fact that you can't loop it back into itself.

 

[TheEighth]

Ohhh okay I understand now.. The only option we could use to create a vortex is the mb grab then, and don't think it's worth it because you'll need another bar to convert the b33 into a combo unless you're opponent is a female

 

[TheEighth]

It's not a vortex because you can't keep loping it - Once you go for a B2 you can't restand them with a B12 and start over.

It's a good setup if you have enough health to take a risk, because the risk/reward of this setup isn't that great. You're doing 19% with b12 xx ice ball, ji2 b12, then you're going for another ~25% combo, but you're risking eating a full combo if they block the b2 and you risk taking some damage if you go for B33.

I use cyromancer exclusively.. I don't even know what a 25% percent combo looks like lol, if I land the b2 I'm getting 31-40 and 35 off of the b33 for a bar and that's if they're lucky enough to not be near a corner.. That's worth it for me