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Question - Raiden Vicinity blast cancels and lightning ball cancel usage

Shawnzzy

Scrub Extraordinaire
Sup Raiden community!

I have a few questions regarding Raiden's two run cancelable moves. I was in the lab yesterday trying to find a way to make my meterless combos a bit more damaging as TG. I've seen Displacer players use vicinity blast run-cancel and extend their combos at mid-screen and in the corner so I thought there might be some usage for TG Raiden.

If you are unfamiliar with VBCs here is a video that shows one way to use the VBC. These combos aren't optimal and they are old as well, but the technique is still possible.

My main thought on implementing them was to use an LRC and a VBC in the same combo. I can get each cancel separately, but in the same combo I can't some to connect the second cancel. It lets me run sometimes,but it seems delayed so I can't tell if it is an input error or the game preventing it.

Here are my questions

So I know the game doesn't allow for two LRCs in a single combo, but does this 1 cancel limit include all types of cancels? Is it possible to have a LRC and a VBC in the same combo?

As far as VBCs go, do you use them when you play Raiden? If so how do you use them?
Playing TG has made me focus on LRCs, so I haven't put much work into using VBCs nor do I see much talk about them on the forums. It's clear they are inferior to LRC, but I wonder how the other variations find uses for them.

And one last question, this is about frame data and may have been answered prior.
How do you calculate the link needed to make a run cancel? For example, I know b32,b24,lrc,213 is much more open than b32,b24,213,lrc,213. Is there a way to tell how small the window gets?


If someone has any other videos documenting something like this then shoot me a link. OR if you can do this double cancel it would be sick if you posted a video of it so others can know it's possible.
 

just_2swift

MK1 is the best MK period.
Sup Raiden community!

I have a few questions regarding Raiden's two run cancelable moves. I was in the lab yesterday trying to find a way to make my meterless combos a bit more damaging as TG. I've seen Displacer players use vicinity blast run-cancel and extend their combos at mid-screen and in the corner so I thought there might be some usage for TG Raiden.

If you are unfamiliar with VBCs here is a video that shows one way to use the VBC. These combos aren't optimal and they are old as well, but the technique is still possible.

My main thought on implementing them was to use an LRC and a VBC in the same combo. I can get each cancel separately, but in the same combo I can't some to connect the second cancel. It lets me run sometimes,but it seems delayed so I can't tell if it is an input error or the game preventing it.

Here are my questions

So I know the game doesn't allow for two LRCs in a single combo, but does this 1 cancel limit include all types of cancels? Is it possible to have a LRC and a VBC in the same combo?

As far as VBCs go, do you use them when you play Raiden? If so how do you use them?
Playing TG has made me focus on LRCs, so I haven't put much work into using VBCs nor do I see much talk about them on the forums. It's clear they are inferior to LRC, but I wonder how the other variations find uses for them.

And one last question, this is about frame data and may have been answered prior.
How do you calculate the link needed to make a run cancel? For example, I know b32,b24,lrc,213 is much more open than b32,b24,213,lrc,213. Is there a way to tell how small the window gets?


If someone has any other videos documenting something like this then shoot me a link. OR if you can do this double cancel it would be sick if you posted a video of it so others can know it's possible.
I got some combos I'm actually working on double vbc combos in the corner. I got a thread up it has combos vbc implemented in them check em out.
 

Shawnzzy

Scrub Extraordinaire
I got some combos I'm actually working on double vbc combos in the corner. I got a thread up it has combos vbc implemented in them check em out.
Awesome, I'll give them a look. So double VBC is possible? I feel like in the right order this could really open on Raiden's meterless options.
 
vicinity blast is not practical, for me at least.
its hard to combo afterwards. id rather risk with shocker and going for 30 vortex or 38 corner carry.
 

just_2swift

MK1 is the best MK period.
Man this is some rough shit lol you can't run cancel twice. You can dash cancel it first then run cancel the second one.
 

Shawnzzy

Scrub Extraordinaire
Hi there, some cancels here. Useless in the fight tbh.
Still it's good to see it's possible. That combo in particular is a pretty good conversion off of a hard anti-air read. A meterless version could be done as well just for that corner carry plus damage.
 

LK228

Noob
toShawnzzy There is a problem, it's really hard to perform cause stamina's not enought in most cases even if it's full. And imho this two-cancel combo is an absolutely unsuitable in a real battle (as with meter as meterless). But I know some good useable combos starting from VB as anti-air and anti-crossup (I think everybody knows this) — db2 rc 1122 bf3 = 15% (lol, such great damage) and db2 rc 21 df2-Ex b14 bf3 = 26%. I hope with new patch Raiden will receive some buffs and new potential for VBRC and LRC in same combo.
(sorry for my english)
 

Shawnzzy

Scrub Extraordinaire
This is true @LK228 . When I was working on this post I was looking for anyway to convert more damage off of any hit for Raiden. I've come to a similar conclusion, too much work and resources for not much pay off. I could see it being useful 1 out 100 matches, but as far as core game plan it probably doesn't make the cut.
Honestly, I've been changing my playstyle with Raiden the past while in an effort to see if there is a "better" way for me to play Thundergod. At this point I'm playing him similar to Swarm Queen D'Vorah. I will pressure with strings like 21lrc214xxbf2 as well as doing the Nivek trick of b11LRC grab. I figure if we can't damage like Quan and Lao then we should just let them not be able to move haha. You would be amazed at how much meter this technique builds, it feels like I am never lower than 2 meter.
 

LK228

Noob
@Shawnzzy Sounds good. After a long time when I didn't play Raiden and pick him, I looked from different point of view and have formed a pretty good opinion about kinds of pressure things of you talking about. And meterbuilding is awesome of course. Recently I learning a LRC after thunderstrings as 112(2) or b112(2) etc.
 

Shawnzzy

Scrub Extraordinaire
@Shawnzzy Sounds good. After a long time when I didn't play Raiden and pick him, I looked from different point of view and have formed a pretty good opinion about kinds of pressure things of you talking about. And meterbuilding is awesome of course. Recently I learning a LRC after thunderstrings as 112(2) or b112(2) etc.
Do you do it after the teleport?