Variation system decoded?

[PLAYING TO WIN]

I saw in a video someone was cycling through the icons, I just can't find it right now. I'll post it when I do.

please do

 

[Ram]

dude. we will disagree here. selecting one move is fine in addition to several variations. but if you have variations and multiple moves selectable it will be the biggest shit storm and joke in fighting game history. ya lab all you want but how will you ever get mu exp? finding players that main every possible combination of selectable moves.

Isn't this good for the game's longevity though? Like it will take a long-ass time to understand how every character works in their entirety, which is good, right? More depth and what-not?

 

[Wetdoba]

dude. we will disagree here. selecting one move is fine in addition to several variations. but if you have variations and multiple moves selectable it will be the biggest shit storm and joke in fighting game history. ya lab all you want but how will you ever get mu exp? finding players that main every possible combination of selectable moves.

I really dont think so. The moves are made to be balanced around the slot system anyway so let us use it. They already prevent certain moves from being combined as well, that is where the large scale balance comes from. This would promote active playing and ability to adapt as stronger traits for players to succeed with. It would also add longevity to the game because we would be constantly seeing players with new combinations.

The game having all new universals such as the wake up system, and meter gaining being universal is going to cut down on crazy lopsided mus and if you do come across a bad one you could swap 1 move instead of your whole character. I think this is the most unique aspect of the game that deserves to be explored at a high level and like I mentioned there are already multiple layers of checks and balances worked into the game. It essentially just adds a lot of gray area to match ups that otherwise could be black and white because it gives you the option to tweak your character for a match up instead of forcing you to pick an entirely new character

 

[Circus]

dude i don't think so... i think it shows what move you picked. might be wrong as usual though

I saw in a video someone was cycling through the icons, I just can't find it right now. I'll post it when I do.

It's just a generic icon.

@5:08

 

[theotherguy]

Also, we have been waiting on the beta, but now we have learned there is a stress test for online that is literally next week. It would be hella weird for a live beta to launch while we still don't know what the competitive variations are. Unheard of actually. I think gathering reactions about kustom is part of the test.

I don't see why the beta should have anything to do with whether the preset variations are ready for use. It's meant to be a stress test of the online code to see how it works in the real world.

The beta could have 3 characters available to play locked to one variation and it shouldn't affect the outcome of the beta test.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Isn't this good for the game's longevity though? Like it will take a long-ass time to understand how every character works in their entirety, which is good, right? More depth and what-not?

You can make that argument but you are introducing too many variables imo. several character variations with the ability to select one ability move will allow for numerous combinations. using the mortal kombat armageddon kreate a karacter (KAK) will result in unbelievable brokenness.

 

[theotherguy]

It's just a generic icon.

@5:08

There it is... time to lock the thread

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

I really dont think so. The moves are made to be balanced around the slot system anyway so let us use it. They already prevent certain moves from being combined as well, that is where the large scale balance comes from. This would promote active playing and ability to adapt as stronger traits for players to succeed with. It would also add longevity to the game because we would be constantly seeing players with new combinations.

The game having all new universals such as the wake up system, and meter gaining being universal is going to cut down on crazy lopsided mus and if you do come across a bad one you could swap 1 move instead of your whole character. I think this is the most unique aspect of the game that deserves to be explored at a high level and like I mentioned there are already multiple layers of checks and balances worked into the game. It essentially just adds a lot of gray area to match ups that otherwise could be black and white because it gives you the option to tweak your character for a match up instead of forcing you to pick an entirely new character

ok then im picking cassie with air lateral gun, low gun shot and her drone escape + all of her core moves. the individual moves may be balanced but when you give free reign its going to get crazy. star fire's tam charge was pretty balanced in itself but ad that to all of her other tools and she was pretty crazy.

 

[Kroaken]

full custom equip? hell no and it its the fastest way to kill a game. However, a three character variation system and the ability to pick one ability move seems fair. The icon is the move you chose and the variation is also clearly listed. everything a tournament player needs. now if you allow them to select 2 or three moves its going to be an issue

Yeah. Just like in mvc3. Killed that game dead.

 

[Error404]

IMO custom variations are going to be EASIER to balance . Since they require a set amount of slots to equip , you can balance the move without even changing it. For example , decrease slots needed for a weak move , or increase the ones needed for a move that is too good. I trust in NRS to make it work. Even if they fail , I'll respect their attempt at innovation.

 

[Circus]

IDK, @PLAYING TO WIN if you're stance is that labbing matchups will be too hard, I don't think that's a good enough reason to not have custom options.

Will there be tons of options?
Yes, but what makes that a shit storm?

It gives the game longevity.

If consistency and confidence in preparation is what a player wants when facing someone, then it's down to that player to lab a ton. I don't see the problem here.

I don't know how someone could assume it'll be any more unbalanced than any other way of doing variations. All variations would do at this point is limit players. There is no tool shown so far that is so overwhelmingly crazy that it would cause concern even in a combination.

IF something were to be too strong, they could always change it so the combination will not be available:

Like here, Bio-Magnetic Trap can't be used with Bio-Magnetic Pull.

This plus the fact that we know some variation moves replace core-moves (like Kano's knives being replaced by Optic Blast), and I really just don't see an issue.

I'm really trying to understand your viewpoint here, but I just don't see it, literally at all...
You might be the only competent person that I see on here that isn't on the side of having kustom variations standard.

In your example where Cassie picks a bunch of zoning crap, then couldn't you just equip some of your anti-zoning crap? It would be no less of a counterpick than having to literally pick an entirely different character (something they don't want).

I think this kind of variation move switching would be healthy for the game.

 

[Wetdoba]

ok then im picking cassie with air lateral gun, low gun shot and her drone escape + all of her core moves. the individual moves may be balanced but when you give free reign its going to get crazy. star fire's tam charge was pretty balanced in itself but ad that to all of her other tools and she was pretty crazy.

Ok go ahead, I have my own combinations as well and they will balance out. The game in the end is still going to be won by fundamentals and footsies and KB management (from what we have seen so far) so I think the custom load outs will generate a lot of hype and even when people pick the top tier characters they would still all be slightly different. Characters from what we have seen can become very versatile. For example you may think your gunshot runaway style sounds cheap on paper but then I equip Geras with a Smoke style projectile parry and now you have a grappler that can blow up projectiles and get oki off it so your Cassie doesnt seem that cheap anymore

Like you mentioned before, you like being able to lab Sinestro years after release and find new stuff? Well now youll be labbing new combinations years after release and finding new stuff. I think it is a no brainer to allow kustoms.

 

[SaltShaker]

I don't see why the beta should have anything to do with whether the preset variations are ready for use. It's meant to be a stress test of the online code to see how it works in the real world.

The beta could have 3 characters available to play locked to one variation and it shouldn't affect the outcome of the beta test.

Yea that's what a stress test is, but you still play characters on it. I doubt there will be only 3 characters available. More likely the reveal event roster if anything. It is to ensure stability in the netcode first and foremost, but they always look at the mechanics too.

For early betas, they usually play the game "as intended" as they tweak any performance issues alongside the online. Fighters, shooters, etc all do it. Even the pre order beta is in less than three weeks, 20 days from today. There's a 0% chance that the preorder beta will launch without preset variations, but then they're included in the main game.

There hasn't really been anything recently to imply they chose preset over kustom. But there are quite a few hints, quotes, etc to imply they're currently leaning towards kustom. I'm down with either as I think both will work.

 

[Ram]

Look, just let custom loadouts rock so I can pull off the ultimate troll: remove, and then immediately add back, 30 seconds on the clock
#chronicgriefer

 

[Kroaken]

Look, just let custom loadouts rock so I can pull off the ultimate troll: remove, and then immediately add back, 30 seconds on the clock
#chronicgriefer

I think they said it only works once

 

[Kiss the Missile]

I don't see what's so hard about having a quick drop down menu to slot your specials. Treat it like assists in Marvel. Competitive players will already know what they want to go in with, it would add a solid 2 seconds to character selecting.

 

[Wetdoba]

Look, just let custom loadouts rock so I can pull off the ultimate troll: remove, and then immediately add back, 30 seconds on the clock
#chronicgriefer

Be getting lamed out as Geras > add back 30 seconds > regain life lead > take 30 seconds back off > force them to yolo approach the grappler in 10 seconds or less

 

[Ram]

I think they said it only works once

But time travel though

 

[Kroaken]

But time travel though

Ya got me there.

 

[PLAYING TO WIN]

Edited op. I think this gives us a lot more insight. Looks like you can edit each variation?

 

[Lokheit]

IDK, @PLAYING TO WIN if you're stance is that labbing matchups will be too hard, I don't think that's a good enough reason to not have custom options.

Will there be tons of options?
Yes, but what makes that a shit storm?

It gives the game longevity.

If consistency and confidence in preparation is what a player wants when facing someone, then it's down to that player to lab a ton. I don't see the problem here.

I don't know how someone could assume it'll be any more unbalanced than any other way of doing variations. All variations would do at this point is limit players. There is no tool shown so far that is so overwhelmingly crazy that it would cause concern even in a combination.

IF something were to be too strong, they could always change it so the combination will not be available:

Like here, Bio-Magnetic Trap can't be used with Bio-Magnetic Pull.

This plus the fact that we know some variation moves replace core-moves (like Kano's knives being replaced by Optic Blast), and I really just don't see an issue.

I'm really trying to understand your viewpoint here, but I just don't see it, literally at all...
You might be the only competent person that I see on here that isn't on the side of having kustom variations standard.

In your example where Cassie picks a bunch of zoning crap, then couldn't you just equip some of your anti-zoning crap? It would be no less of a counterpick than having to literally pick an entirely different character (something they don't want).

I think this kind of variation move switching would be healthy for the game.

Wow, great catch, this functionality is great in the case a combo of kustom moves is game breaking (still haven't seen anything like that anyway, everything seems restrained enough).

 

[Sablicious]

Being six weeks-ish out from launch, NRS might want to settle on a system and reveal it at their Kombat Kast -- A.S.A.P..

The customisation / "variations" will be one of, if not the most important aspect of how the game (i.e., its gameplay) will be view. If they are too jewy Draconian with the restrictions that they seem to be imposing, most will dismiss the system as "MKX lite" (kind of like what the "Amplifies" have [seemingly] become... especially if any customisation 'freedom' is relegated to "friendly" modes only). Conversely, if they are too laissez-faire, people will scream "BALANCE.meme!!" from the kindergarten rooftops.

The last time I checked, the game is still going to be at least a loose facsimile of a fighting game... Right? So, it's heavily incumbent upon NRS to settle on MK11's gameplay mechanics, and as soon as possible. Leaving the integral component/s of the game in question until the eleventh hour, exponentially increases the risk of the game being a gameplay shit show /!\

We already know most of the roster, and only a half-dozen more can be 'officially' revealed at the current revelation rate (*assuming Kano and Cassie were an aberration and not the new KK norm) -- they should put the 'spoilering' to bed (...if for nothing else, then for the sake of my ficking YouTube "recommended" lists ). It would be far wiser for NRS to concentrate on the gameplay, and provide as much time for garnering feedback as possible... Before it's too late and we end up with a Baraka-in-lipstick MK11.

 

[Marinjuana]

Being six weeks-ish out from launch, NRS might want to settle on a system and reveal it at their Kombat Kast -- A.S.A.P..

The customisation / "variations" will be one of, if not the most important aspect of how the game (i.e., its gameplay) will be view. If they are too jewy Draconian with the restrictions that they seem to be imposing, most will dismiss the system as "MKX lite" (kind of like what the "Amplifies" have [seemingly] become... especially if any customisation 'freedom' is relegated to "friendly" modes only). Conversely, if they are too laissez-faire, people will scream "BALANCE.meme!!" from the kindergarten rooftops.

The last time I checked, the game is still going to be at least a loose facsimile of a fighting game... Right? So, it's heavily incumbent upon NRS to settle on MK11's gameplay mechanics, and as soon as possible. Leaving the integral component/s of the game in question until the eleventh hour, exponentially increases the risk of the game being a gameplay shit show /!\

We already know most of the roster, and only a half-dozen more can be 'officially' revealed at the current revelation rate (*assuming Kano and Cassie were an aberration and not the new KK norm) -- they should put the 'spoilering' to bed (...if for nothing else, then for the sake of my ficking YouTube "recommended" lists ). It would be far wiser for NRS to concentrate on the gameplay, and provide as much time for garnering feedback as possible... Before it's too late and we end up with a Baraka-in-lipstick MK11.

I'm not sure if I'm more bothered by your casual use of a racial slur or that it made no sense in the context, don't try to sound too clever

I do wish they made a real announcement about this the variations thing though

 

[Working Class Outworlder]

For fuck sake I hope uncaged isn’t a variation. Get bad vibes because of you already know who

Yeah really not a fan of meme names for the final preset variations.

What meme are you guys talking about?