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Question Vanilla Sub-Zero: How good was he?

Dark_Rob

Noob
Hard to monitor?
There's always, like, half a dozen staff at EC tournies; Just call one over when the one Cyrax match comes up.
Nowadays yea, but back then it was only like 9.95, Shock, Summoning and me. And sometimes Phils brother when he could come. Summer Jam 2011 was just Shock and me. I had to rely on other players to run around and find players I needed. We didn't have the staff at the time to monitor such things. They probably could now though.
 

Axel_Redd

Vampire Jesus....he wants YOUR blood now!!
i still think kunglaos low hat shouldve had a bit less recovery than what it does now, oh, and a bit more plus on block.
 
Let's not forget about vanilla Skarlet. Also vanilla Cage with the parry glitch. Vanilla Freddy was probably top 3 honestly. I would say Cyrax, Kabal, and Freddy were the top 3 of vanilla.
 

Duck Nation

Dicks with a future
Hes not the worst character in the game, but hes down there around bottom 10 or so.

As for what made him so powerful that he deserved to be beat to death with a nerf hammer? In a word, nothing. Pretty much every nerf that happened to him was entirely uncalled for and unnessecary. There is a big difference between something actually being to powerful and something just appearing that way at first because the game is new. That's what happened with Subzero.
Holy shit. Deathstroke isn't Kano 2.0, he's Sub-Zero 2.0.

General M2Dave
 

Dark_Rob

Noob
Freaking this

I can count at least 5 characters who were better at release and even post first patch.

He was just really good, not top 3.
And you know what the really messed up thing is? No matter how bad he got I still had to play him because I just couldn't live without that ice clone. I was dependent on that shit lol.
 

xQUANTUMx

Twitter: @xxQUANTUM
Sub with vanilla damage and reset would be just right.
I have no idea if you're trolling or not, but I'll agree with it anyway. If he was able to get you into that situation he deserved it. It was the least broken reset in the game and was not touch of death like other *cough* characters, lol
 

Jeffreys

Grundy think you handsome!
Man I can't even imagine vanilla Sub Zero in Tom or Denzell's hands. NRS really dropped the ball on Sub Zero's nerfs. Vanilla Sub Zero would not beat the current top 5 characters for sure.
 

RM Truth

Unintentional Tier Whore Follow me @TruthRM
i still think kunglaos low hat shouldve had a bit less recovery than what it does now, oh, and a bit more plus on block.

I know that his hat had advantage on hit in vanilla. Shit was dumb in block strings.
 

Dark_Rob

Noob
Man I can't even imagine vanilla Sub Zero in Tom or Denzell's hands. NRS really dropped the ball on Sub Zero's nerfs. Vanilla Sub Zero would not beat the current top 5 characters for sure.
Well, you need to understand the time frame. Subzero was not "vanilla Subzero" for very long. It was only a matter of weeks before the first patch came out. Some armor was dispensed. Subs damage was nerfed about 3% to 5% across the board. So the real day 1 Subzero didn't even exist long enough for all the Sub tech that came later to even be applied to him. And infact a lot of later Sub tech was actually in response to his nerfs. Since the things he had either didn't work or were no longer as effective, new things had to be found. But a lot of the stuff that came later you wouldn't need with vanilla sub. Those things were responses to what we lost and what we had left to work with.

An example would be the B1,2,1 standing reset. In the later version of the game this became basically a standard BnB for sub. In the earlier versions of the game it was never used because Sub hit so much harder you would be giving up to much damage to use it. And ending combos with slide had more knockdown advantage then it does now.
The 21, 21, D4, 212 parlor trick gimmicks weren't necessary with vanilla sub because 2,2 had a better hit box and clone was much better and his damage was much higher. But they took all the good stuff away, so parlor tricks is what we had left.

In fact I believe Powerup 2011 was the only tournament that had Day 1 Subzero. Heres a few.


 

xKhaoTik

The Ignore Button Is Free
He was better than he is now, but nowhere near top, not even close. His reset was escapeable by anyone with an armor move and a bar of meter to burn. Kitana and Kabal were never any better. Kitana did absolutely stupid damage pre patch, if you even got touched by her you lost half your lifebar in one combo. Kabal had a freakin block infinite, in addition to all the other stupidity he had, and still has. Cage? So what, Subzero still does well in that matchup now. Jax? ehh maybe, no one really played Jax except Tyrant at that time. It wasn't until Jax got some nice buffs that you began seeing him more. By then Sub was dead.

Kitana still does that lol
 

Minh Giang

aka ChrsitianDMG on Stream
better damage, wayyyy better, still had his ice puddle reset, the only thing that made me use it lol.
 

AK-Israel

I'm Back
What I fail to understand was why give us a useless move that had only one usage:reset.Unforunately they took that reset away from him so ice puddle become a wasted slot in are toolbag.....I mean if your gonna patch out the reset,well they could of made ice puddle startup frames faster or at least made it cancelable
 

Hitoshura

Head Cage
Though I've been playing Sub-Zero since at least December 2011 / January 2012 I wasn't a day one. He is highly regarded as the worst character in MK9 by many... Top players, and casual forum posters alike. His placing on a tier chart doesn't matter to me personally, but for conversations sake I'd like to know what he was like before the patch(es).

The only footage I remember of him from the beginning stages is a reset involving 212 Ex Ice Ball into Ground freeze. So Sub-Zero Day one mains tell me what made him so powerful to deserve the nerf hammer please.
He was good enough to stand a good chance against the top tier. He had a guaranteed reset that took away a large portion of your life, but no where near as much as cyrax. Unfortunately they nerfed it completely and nerfed his damaged. He's solid now due to the fact that he can keep up with some of the top tier characters. He's a good character to have under your belt. Hey Dark_Rob, remember when you did the reset on me at that tournament in Manhattan? I was so tight!