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Unnecessary Execution Barriers / Extra Button Inputs

Sometimes execution barriers are arbitrary and not good for the game.
I mean yeah in extremely rare cases maybe. NRS games are not those games. There's no character in this game that's so hard to play that you literally can't get it down with practice and a small amount of talent.
 

Eddy Wang

Skarlet scientist
I mean yeah in extremely rare cases maybe. NRS games are not those games. There's no character in this game that's so hard to play that you literally can't get it down with practice and a small amount of talent.
Yeah, but why bother with that when top characters are much easier with potato moves anyway? lol
 

ChaosTheory

A fat woman came into the shoe store today...
People think they're too hard or silly only when they can't get passed them.
I disagree. You can nail KL's 1,1,212 consistently and still recognize it's a silly input for a game that's known for its ease of execution.

It doesn't have to be a butt-hurt response.
 

ShadyHeart

Relationship with Sonya ended
Mileena has one as well but it's different from other command throws. Doesn't work like any other throw in the game.
I don't think you can call it a command grab. It's just a move that only works on crouching or juggled opponents and it works on opponents in block stun unlike grabs.
 
99% of all execution in this game is baby mode, so that's a non-factor in discussing this issue (i have no idea why you guys obsess over it when it's besides the point.) however, NRS' input recognition/leniency system really just does more harm than good.

i posted this in another thread already, but as an example, if you do tremor db1 cancel, then immediately try to do b1 on the first frame, the game will always give you another db1 instead. you will have to let there be a slight gap before inputting b1 to prevent input 'leniency' from screwing you over.

the way NRS has set up the engine itself is very bad in this regard.
 

God Confirm

We're all from Earthrealm. If not, cool pic brah.
FL Rushdown is the last person on this forum you want to listen to when it comes to discussion on execution
 

Wolverine32

PSN: ADM_Wolverine
I don't think you can call it a command grab. It's just a move that only works on crouching or juggled opponents and it works on opponents in block stun unlike grabs.
It doesn't hit in block stun, it only connects off of f4, b2, f12b4, 124, and low pokes. Anything else and it whiffs so it doesn't work on opponents in block stun, nice try though.
 

ShadyHeart

Relationship with Sonya ended
It doesn't hit in block stun, it only connects off of f4, b2, f12b4, 124, and low pokes. Anything else and it whiffs so it doesn't work on opponents in block stun, nice try though.
I assumed it would because it says overhead instead of throw. I guess Ravenous isn't quite as good as I thought then.
 

Wolverine32

PSN: ADM_Wolverine
I assumed it would because it says overhead instead of throw. I guess Ravenous isn't quite as good as I thought then.
I'm not trying to down play her bro, ravenous is borderline broken lol it still acts like an overhead when not ticking off of a string. So it's deadly in the poke/counterpoke game. It's a great conditioning tool as well, it opens up her low starter which is much harder to hit people with in her other variations. Ravenous is super cheap, if you're blocking low waiting for a low poke you'll eat 16 percent every time until you block high. She's dirty.
 

THTB

Arez | Booya | Riu48 - Rest Easy, Friends
I agree...If there's no other branch in the string using the same button, why use extra directional inputs? A little extra. It's not hard, just doesn't make much sense to have.
 

trufenix

bye felicia
NRS has been making fighting games for like 20 years, they are probably a little bored with b,b+1 and b,f+3
 

24K

Noob
Sometimes.

But not a single input in MKX is to hard. It may be a barrier to some. And that's good. Why should all the characters play the same. Everybody would just pick the player that does the most damage with the same inputs. And nobody would touch any other character. It would get to the point where games would only have one character with different skins. And everybody would either stop playing. Or the scrubby players would complain about how the opponents only winning because he uses footsies. Again. Play dive kick if you want a game with easy execution. I like to play characters that are finicky to use sometimes. Its fun having a challenge. But once you can do the input you can always do the input and there will be nothing hard about it.

We aren't all equal and our characters command lists shouldn't be either. But regardless. If there is a move you cant do, then don't do it. Simple. I have been focusing on my neutral game a lot since the middle of last year. I practice combos and swag in the lab when there is nobody to play against. But when I have PVP games I only use my pokes. One or two punishes. And I will do the begging part of my combos and stop. I don't use hard moves and I don't use combos. I am being strict about it to force my self to play to win by dealing low damage more frequently. And I am doing better. Since I have to focus more on other aspects of the fight. When I continue with combos and deal all the extra damage I win super fast and I have become insanely good compared to where i was before.

And the point is this. don't worry about hard commands. Leave that part out of your game plan until you can do them. You will then see how the more you play and the more finicky combos you learn. The easier it is to learn other "hard" commands. EB's 21122 will take no more than 5 solid minutes of repetitive resetting in the lab to get. Same for KL's. Put in the time and nothing can't be done.

PS: There isn't a single command grab in this game that is hard.
 

24K

Noob
Stanky Leg is basically impossible for 99% of players.
I can't possibly believe that. Thats her 4, U+4 right.
That's press right thumb down, press right and left thumb down together. Ad the aim is just a quick double tap with your right thumb. I am certain it even comes out if you do 44U really quickly. That's something I can do on pad with no hassle and I don't particularly play pad.

Kinda, but I'd be fine if they weren't there lol.
I personally wouldn't be fine if they weren't there. Designers need to make something for everybody. Players who can't do these commands can leave them out. Players who can and enjoy the extra work can't add them in if they aren't there.
 

ShadyHeart

Relationship with Sonya ended
I can't possibly believe that. Thats her 4, U+4 right.
That's press right thumb down, press right and left thumb down together. Ad the aim is just a quick double tap with your right thumb. I am certain it even comes out if you do 44U really quickly. That's something I can do on pad with no hassle and I don't particularly play pad.
I can't consistently do it no matter what I do. Everyone knows Stanky Leg is the biggest bitch normal in the game and there's no reason the input shouldn't be U4. It's an arbitrary execution barrier that shouldn't exist.
 

24K

Noob
@ShadyHeart

It isn't arbitrary at all. Its a good move and you shouldn't be allowed to use it if you can't use it. Don't mean for that to sound dickish. But if everybody could do all the moves with easy buttons there would be nothing fun and exciting to learn. If Jax could get out all of his slams with ease then nobody would get hype when it happens.

Honestly though Stanky Legs shouldn't be that hard. Don't try and do it as fast as you can. Start slow. Obviously it wont come out, but then do it a little quicker. Not a lot quicker. Still wont come out for sure. But as you slowly start increasing the speed your fingers will learn it better and when you start nearing the speed at which you need to do it, it will start coming out. Inconsistently at first and then you will slowly start doing it faster and it will come out all the time every time. I feel people who have trouble learning these commands are simply practicing them wrong and not practicing them enough. If you try do it as fast as you can right from the start, your fingers wont be able to learn the command properly and you will learn bad habits. You will also probably end up doing that little spasm thing because you will tense up your forearms. Guitarist looking for speed will know that devil.

I still can't get Jax's slams out. Not even inconsistently. Just two and that's it. I will pick him up once or twice a week and practice for maybe 5 minutes. If I practiced longer I would get it relatively soon-ish. But I don't because I have a lot of other things to practice. But I don't mind that I can't do it. I don't get upset that its to hard. I enjoy the struggle. And when I have finally got it down I will use Jax purely to do that move with the intention of setting the audience off. And then never bother playing him again.

I take it you never got into Smash Melee. It has two attack buttons. Simple. Until you want to learn things like Shffl-ing. I would suggest you find that game and practice that. Its the hardest easy thing in any fighting game I reckon. It will make all combos and buttons much easier when you have learned how to do it. And it will carry over to any fighting game you pick up on in the future. Good foundations make it easy to learn anything. Well, easier.