Match-up Discussion - Unbreakable Unbreakable MU's

[boba_buster]

What match ups do people actually think are in unbreakables favor?
Kotal has always giving me trouble with sub zero regardless of variation.
But today I noticed how good parry works against him
His best starters have a lot of reach but once he commits he can't stop. One particular combo they always start the match with because it goes so far so fast , out of playing 3 different kotals on ranked today , I caught all 3 with a parry to start the fight cuz they all started with the same lunging move.

 

[RM Ree]

It seems like Unbreakable does well vs. frame traps and "unique" pressure characters. For instance...

Like you mentioned, Kotal players really like to use the +4f "114 xx air throw (whiff) > b122 xx ex pizza/ ex sword throw" as a block string. Parry works pretty well after the air throw, freezing Kotas b1 (or other follow ups).

Goro's I've played rely on good normals following neutral adv pressure (punch walk > d1, punch walk > ex punch walk, etc.). Their wake ups also makes them fairly powerful. Parry counters all of this, and even has some gimmicky true combo reset tech vs punch walks 2 hits of armor.

Takeda? I hear his long range normals are parryable.

What I find to be an interesting MU tid bit is how parry might just be an answer to Summoner Quan's OH/ low pseudo unblockable. Bat counts as a projectile so it doesn't trigger the parry's freeze, but the OH (or any following pressure) will. Worth looking into.

 

[boba_buster]

I brought up the parry quan thing a long time ago and was told I was stupid even tho I've done it and it works

 

[Savage8-8]

What I find to be an interesting MU tid bit is how parry might just be an answer to Summoner Quan's OH/ low pseudo unblockable. Bat counts as a projectile so it doesn't trigger the parry's freeze, but the OH (or any following pressure) will. Worth looking into.

Never thought about doing this. Need to try it. Also it maybe online lag but i found that the parry works after you block kung lao's ex orbital hat. I thought we were jailed if we blocked that move but lately ive been catching people with it. Must be do to online.

 

[Braindead]

Never thought about doing this. Need to try it. Also it maybe online lag but i found that the parry works after you block kung lao's ex orbital hat. I thought we were jailed if we blocked that move but lately ive been catching people with it. Must be do to online.

If you block 112124 EX Hat while crouching, and they go for 112124 again, the first standing 1 won't jail. You can backdash or poke back which will hit since their standing 1 is a high.

 

[Braindead]

It seems like Unbreakable does well vs. frame traps and "unique" pressure characters. For instance...

Like you mentioned, Kotal players really like to use the +4f "114 xx air throw (whiff) > b122 xx ex pizza/ ex sword throw" as a block string. Parry works pretty well after the air throw, freezing Kotas b1 (or other follow ups).

Goro's I've played rely on good normals following neutral adv pressure (punch walk > d1, punch walk > ex punch walk, etc.). Their wake ups also makes them fairly powerful. Parry counters all of this, and even has some gimmicky true combo reset tech vs punch walks 2 hits of armor.

Takeda? I hear his long range normals are parryable.

What I find to be an interesting MU tid bit is how parry might just be an answer to Summoner Quan's OH/ low pseudo unblockable. Bat counts as a projectile so it doesn't trigger the parry's freeze, but the OH (or any following pressure) will. Worth looking into.

Ehhh. He still doesn't do well against any of these IMO.

The problem is even though the parry might be useful in some situations, Unbreakable still gets outclassed easily in all these MUs. He gets outclassed in the neutral and footsies game, he gets outclassed in damage, the pressure, the 50/50s, zoning... His parry is about the strongest tool he has but it doesn't come close to saving him.

Reo said that Unbreakable doesn't have any winning MUs and I agree with him. Out of all the MUs you mentioned I can see him going even with Goro. I played that MU myself quite a bit and it doesn't feel bad. The other ones he definitely loses them.

 

[boba_buster]

Ehhh. He still doesn't do well against any of these IMO.

The problem is even though the parry might be useful in some situations, Unbreakable still gets outclassed easily in all these MUs. He gets outclassed in the neutral and footsies game, he gets outclassed in damage, the pressure, the 50/50s, zoning... His parry is about the strongest tool he has but it doesn't come close to saving him.

Reo said that Unbreakable doesn't have any winning MUs and I agree with him. Out of all the MUs you mentioned I can see him going even with Goro. I played that MU myself quite a bit and it doesn't feel bad. The other ones he definitely loses them.

Sadly this is all very true

 

[boba_buster]

Parry does catch takedas long range normals but what makes that MU hard is how fast and good takedas jumping is , 10 out 10 times when u play a takeda they just jump around non stop

 

[RM Ree]

Most of the time, I feel like normal parry isn't fast enough so I should use the ex parry... But then I think, "why not just use ex frost bomb?" And if you have aura on when you do it, all the better. Idk, this whole variation feels like you're just hoping your opponent goes in super hard and never jumps.

 

[Samsara]

Most of the time, I feel like normal parry isn't fast enough so I should use the ex parry... But then I think, "why not just use ex frost bomb?" And if you have aura on when you do it, all the better. Idk, this whole variation feels like you're just hoping your opponent goes in super hard and never jumps.

I've honestly been feeling the same way, every instance I would have normally used ex parry before I now simply opt for his armored launcher. Parry is really strange that way, I know some of my opponents strings well enough to go go ahead and use parry/ex parry for an easy punish (online ermac's with that f2 starter that leads to a free launch------parry that nonsense every time).

Parry literally only works when I know my opponents a complete maniac, any other time I try to be clever with parry against a skilled opponent I end up getting reamed. Luckily ex aura allows you to play a bit more bold and risk those punishes. The problem is Sub is so meter dependent it's like life/death every time you even consider touching your meter. I do like the 50/50 we get off of F4xxEXaura, ESPECIALLY in the corner, easy way to get about 40% if they guess wrong. I'm thankful for Sub's native corner carry in this regard.

I really hope we get reduced recovery on absorbed projectiles and some kind of meter gain with aura. I'd play unbreakable a lot more.

 

[RM Ree]

Has anyone seen how Flame Fist Liu Kang's buff (High Tech Jaqui too?) can chip UB even with aura active? I think that's a bad MU then huh Even better, Tremor's ex crystal armor negates all chip. What up with that...

 

[Samsara]

Has anyone seen how Flame Fist Liu Kang's buff (High Tech Jaqui too?) can chip UB even with aura active? I think that's a bad MU then huh Even better, Tremor's ex crystal armor negates all chip. What up with that...

I've never seen it in person, but if that's true there's no reason it wouldn't be fixed in the KP2 patch. And yeah it's a shame about Tremor but at least his on a shorter duration. Problem is he also gets to ignore and entire hit.

 

[Lokheit]

Today I was watching the ESL finals and seeing @Madzin parry with GM clone in the neutral multiple times (with very good results) made me laugh internally about how messed up Unbreakable is when its supposed strengths (parry and extending combos with a non-hitting, and negating the chip of course, but then you ignore the recent "buffs" if aura is always up) are already covered (in a more efficent manner) by another variation that does so much more.

I can't think of any matchup where Unbreakable is the goto variation for Sub-Zero. At all.

Take the variation in a different direction, make the aura buff every move (not only the burst) into super saiyan level or something, maybe even some normals like charged up Jaquie, make him shine in his own way, the current direction isn't working.

 

[PPJ]

these are what i think unbreakable does about equal to or better than grandmaster. cryomancer idk about.
pred hqt (better)
tanya kobu and pyromancer (equal or better)
jacqui full auto (equal)
kano cybernetic (equal or better)
quan warlock (better) other two (equal or better)
takeda ronin and lasher (equal) shirai ryu (equal or better)
tremor aftershock (maybe better) other two (equal)
cage stunt double (equal or better)
shinnok bone hands (better) other two (equal)
lao tempest (equal)
louie kang dragon fire (equal) other two (equal or better)
kitana mournful (better) other two (equal)
dvorah venomous (equal or better)
kenshi all three (equal)
ferra torr vicious and ruthless (better)
ermac spectral (better) mystic (equal)
scorpion hellfire and inferno (equal or better)

might be upplaying only a few of these. A FEW.
get at me

 

[Samsara]

Today I was watching the ESL finals and seeing @Madzin parry with GM clone in the neutral multiple times (with very good results) made me laugh internally about how messed up Unbreakable is when its supposed strengths (parry and extending combos with a non-hitting, and negating the chip of course, but then you ignore the recent "buffs" if aura is always up) are already covered (in a more efficent manner) by another variation that does so much more.

I can't think of any matchup where Unbreakable is the goto variation for Sub-Zero. At all.

Take the variation in a different direction, make the aura buff every move (not only the burst) into super saiyan level or something, make him shine in his own way, the current direction isn't working.

Unbreakable has no current direction--- I could tell by the way the introduced the Unbreakable changes on stream that they had no idea what they wanted the variation to do "Cryo very offensive, and GM is very defensive, and so we figured Unbreakable should be a mix of both..."

Literally wtf?! That the most noncommittal way to approach character design I've ever seen. It's not a balance between the two, it's them throwing shit at the wall and seeing what sticks. The reason GM is the defensive variation and Unbreakable isn't is because clone is 1000x the move parry could ever hope to be with way more utility and opportunity for smart and defensive play. Parry is a near death sentence and can't even perform as originally advertised (see early kombat kasts and promotional material). Aura is a great move but not enough to make Unbreakable shine. I love Unbreakable but it's honestly a mess.

 

[Samsara]

these are what i think unbreakable does about equal to or better than grandmaster. cryomancer idk about.
pred hqt (better)
tanya kobu and pyromancer (equal or better)
jacqui full auto (equal)
kano cybernetic (equal or better)
quan warlock (better) other two (equal or better)
takeda ronin and lasher (equal) shirai ryu (equal or better)
tremor aftershock (maybe better) other two (equal)
cage stunt double (equal or better)
shinnok bone hands (better) other two (equal)
lao tempest (equal)
louie kang dragon fire (equal) other two (equal or better)
kitana mournful (better) other two (equal)
dvorah venomous (equal or better)
kenshi all three (equal)
ferra torr vicious and ruthless (better)
ermac spectral (better) mystic (equal)
scorpion hellfire and inferno (equal or better)

might be upplaying only a few of these. A FEW.
get at me

I totally agree with F/T and D'Vorah and Jacqui, Unbreakable is miles better in those matchups than GM.

 

[boba_buster]

What if parry was special cancelable?
Could absorb a projectile and cancel into aura to block the next one , could cancel into ice burst to make it safer or ex ice bomb for an armored launcher?

 

[boba_buster]

Sorry I hate when ppl make stupid buff ideas and I just did it myself lol

 

[FOREVER EL1TE]

(whiff) > b122 xx ex pizza/ .

Ex pizza is godlike, I'm using it now lololol

 

[RM Truth]

I'm not sure how parry works against armor, but you might be able to parry Quan while he's in his armor rune?

 

[boba_buster]

It works against armor so I would assume it does

 

[RM Ree]

I'm not sure how parry works against armor, but you might be able to parry Quan while he's in his armor rune?

I made a short clip about this a second ago. It's similar in theory to the Goro tech from a little ways back. Anyway, I'll post it here in an edit when it's finished uploading.

EDIT: