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Tech Un-teched knockdown leads to low/NJ-overhead mix-up

Sami

Noob
Disclaimer 1: Apologies if this is already known.
Disclaimer 2: Worked out on the buggy-as-all-fuck PC edition so might not work on consoles.

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When an opponent stands up after being knocked down from either a hard knockdown or when they didn't tech-roll out of a normal knockdown, they will have a standing hitbox for a few frames. The standing hitbox will occur even if the opponent is pressing down to crouch. This applies to all 3 stand-up animations: getting up off back, getting up off stomach, and the unique D3 stand that goes with the unique D3 knockdown animation.

This standing hitbox gives Raven a brief window to do an instant neutral jump (NJ) attack, and depending on how good your timing is ALL of the jump attacks (1/2/3) will work. The low/overhead mix-up comes from you having the option to do b1 as the opponent stands up which starts low. If you go for the neutral jump attack, your follow-up options are:

NJ1: dive kick interactable and nothing else. Will grant 18.5% damage if dive kick connects.
NJ2: unless you're off by what seems to be a frame or two, 1 and d1 will combo (dive kick also works for 20.5% damage)
NJ3: dive kick interactable and nothing else. Deals 24.5% damage with dive kick, 11% without.

Difficulty wise, NJ1 is the easiest to land, followed by NJ3, and then NJ2 requires perfect timing. NJ1 is the easiest because it is the fastest and has a low hitbox. NJ3 is next because it has a chunky hitbox and in particular has a much lower hitbox than you would expect directly under her hands (it won't connect if the opponent is standing, but as you don't get pushed away when the opponent stands-into-crouch that extra big hitbox connects with the opponent's head). NJ2 is of course the one that leads to the most damage (full combo), but is slower than NJ1 and has a higher hitbox than both NJ1 and NJ3.

The whole thing gets blown up by wake-up attacks, but then if you've played Raven for more than 5 minutes that shouldn't be a new experience for you! If you drop the instant NJ input then you're as safe as you would expect from doing a raw jump in front of your opponent. The low option is mostly safe at -5 (b12 or b123). If you're in demon stance you can cancel b12 into pillar to make it 0 on block.

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The standing frames are universal to the game, so any character that has a low (as in actual height, not the block level) hitbox on their jump attacks can probably utilise this info. Other characters probably have actual standing mix-ups and don't need odd-ball tech like this :).

Just for completeness sake, high attacks will hit the opponent during these standing frames but they will be blocked if the opponent is holding back or down. The game treats blocking high attacks exactly the same as blocking mid attacks - the only difference is highs miss if you're actually in the crouching state. The mix-up HAS to be low/overhead for this set-up to work.
 

Sami

Noob
Further: in the corner this becomes a 3-way mix-up. Assuming you have the time to do so, forward dash before doing b1 or NJwhatever. b1 will go low as usual, while the neutral jump has a random chance of crossing up. Leaves them having to get down, left or right.

Further 2: this actually works mid-screen (tested against flash anyway) and a forward dash will cause the NJ to sometimes cross-up.


Blind_Man have I just re-invented your wake-up tech? I'm not sure if you land the neutral jump attack on the way up or way down. If it's the way down then this is probably better as you get a 3-way mix-up (left/right/down). If it's the way up (i.e. as the opponent gets off the ground) then yeah all of this is known already lol
 
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Sami

Noob
The nj3 in my shenanigans is on the way down but this seems pretty useful so awesome!
Sweet. Now there's something to do on the way up too :D


edit: f222~teleport (behind) also sets this up nicely. Won't cross-up but you still get the option of overhead or low.
 

Blind_Ducky

Princess of the Sisterhood
Sweet. Now there's something to do on the way up too :D


edit: f222~teleport (behind) also sets this up nicely. Won't cross-up but you still get the option of overhead or low.
I have a gimmick where I'll do that into mb b3 lol
 

Glass Sword

Nobody
Premium Supporter
@Laos_boy tech can make this more reliable against characters without. Anti-air wake ups like Aquaman. Just do a meaty jump 3 after a knockdown and then you have enough advantage to do a neutral jump 2. The timing will require some perfection, but neutral jump 2 should work off any deep jump in if spaced properly.
If the jump 3 crosses up you will be too far away. Too high and you will get too much pushback.
I've been working on the timing for this and it is tough. It is still a 33/33/33 against most characters except Aquaman and Zod since you can stuff wakeups with b1. This is all pretty risky without the dive kick.