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Ultimate Frost analysis, things that need to change

trufenix

www.youtube.com/thetrufenix
This is a really good guide for anyone looking to learn how to play Frost. only problem is she is the worst character in the game :(
Kotal is way worse. Shao probably too. but at this tier who cares. Even if they don't change her frame data at all, once the game gets a hit box fix she's going to be very useful.
 

JSF

Best Worst character Main
Kotal is way worse. Shao probably too. but at this tier who cares. Even if they don't change her frame data at all, once the game gets a hit box fix she's going to be very useful.
i could see Kotal possibly being worse but i think he is probably being played wrong by most, he has a 14f mid command grab right? He sucks but he has some dirt and Frost doesnt. Shao isnt as bad as them at all idk why people put him next to Kotal
 
Her shield needs to be replaced with her air quake move in her tournament variations. Way better counter zoning tool in my opinion
 

JSF

Best Worst character Main
Her shield needs to be replaced with her air quake move in her tournament variations. Way better counter zoning tool in my opinion
is air quake the dive kick? i only play tourney variations, i know her ice box doesnt work tho
 
Not every character should have a 10 frame mid... As long a you are able to walk to whiff punish after hiting a d1 without being poked back, then it's ok. Also jail into highs. And ffs highs should NEVER whiff on crouch blocking enemies.

With those core gameplay changes, Ice Machine would be kinda ok. Now Frost Byte needs major changes...
Another big problem is that most of her strings are useless.
 

Lt. Boxy Angelman

Kabal Main, Frost Impersonator.
Premium Supporter
Frost is my #1 hopeful to win the Balance Patch Sweepstakes and get the help she needs to rreeaallllyy compete.

This is an AMAZING job, by the way.
Literally everything I could want to know.
100/10 Stars.
 

JSF

Best Worst character Main
Not every character should have a 10 frame mid... As long a you are able to walk to whiff punish after hiting a d1 without being poked back, then it's ok. Also jail into highs. And ffs highs should NEVER whiff on crouch blocking enemies.

With those core gameplay changes, Ice Machine would be kinda ok. Now Frost Byte needs major changes...
Another big problem is that most of her strings are useless.
buuuut every character DOES have a 9-13 frame mid/low besides Frost and Kotal and most have a mid thats less than 13 soo yea everyone should have it. Frost cant jail d1 or d3 into stand 1 or stand 3 like the rest of the cast either, she literally cant play the poke game like the rest of the cast because her highs have no range and she has no fast mid and her back walk speed sucks so she cant poke shimmy like scorp for example
 

trufenix

www.youtube.com/thetrufenix
i could see Kotal possibly being worse but i think he is probably being played wrong by most, he has a 14f mid command grab right? He sucks but he has some dirt and Frost doesnt. Shao isnt as bad as them at all idk why people put him next to Kotal
We're splitting hairs, but Frost at least has "bad" zoning options and her spin is relatively safe. B+2,2 is a phenomenal move, she's got great anti air game, and b,f+3 is one of the most annoying zoning tools in the game.

Kotal has no such things, just a whole lot of yolo. And a really useful command grab THAT THROWS THEM OUT OF THE FUCKING CORNER. None of Frost's BnBs (Except weird corner uppercut combos) switch sides and ruin her pressure.

Frost with hit box fixes would actually be a really solid character. Kotal will need frame and range buffs all over his movelist to even be functional.
 

Qwark28

Jacks off to good voice acting
i could see Kotal possibly being worse but i think he is probably being played wrong by most, he has a 14f mid command grab right? He sucks but he has some dirt and Frost doesnt. Shao isnt as bad as them at all idk why people put him next to Kotal
We're splitting hairs, but Frost at least has "bad" zoning options and her spin is relatively safe. B+2,2 is a phenomenal move, she's got great anti air game, and b,f+3 is one of the most annoying zoning tools in the game.

Kotal has no such things, just a whole lot of yolo. And a really useful command grab THAT THROWS THEM OUT OF THE FUCKING CORNER. None of Frost's BnBs (Except weird corner uppercut combos) switch sides and ruin her pressure.

Frost with hit box fixes would actually be a really solid character. Kotal will need frame and range buffs all over his movelist to even be functional.
I think you guys should avoid talking with absolutes when it's clear you know next to nothing about kotal.
 

karaokelove

Dead or alive, you’re coming with me.
Premium Supporter
I played quite a few sets against @The Slaj Jazz ’s Frost earlier and he made her look at least usable. She gives Baraka some problems due to the range of her normals; he pretty much just has to zone until she commits to something unsafe or negative. The problem is that once she does, she’s eating at least 35% or using all her meter on breaking. Once he gets the life lead, it can be tough to open him up if he plays defensively.
 

JSF

Best Worst character Main
We're splitting hairs, but Frost at least has "bad" zoning options and her spin is relatively safe. B+2,2 is a phenomenal move, she's got great anti air game, and b,f+3 is one of the most annoying zoning tools in the game.

Kotal has no such things, just a whole lot of yolo. And a really useful command grab THAT THROWS THEM OUT OF THE FUCKING CORNER. None of Frost's BnBs (Except weird corner uppercut combos) switch sides and ruin her pressure.

Frost with hit box fixes would actually be a really solid character. Kotal will need frame and range buffs all over his movelist to even be functional.
B22 isn’t phenomenal and she doesn’t have a great anti air game. Annoying doesn’t mean good. If I burn my meter to make bf3 annoying I can’t use that meter to launch. Frost will need frame and range buffs to be good too. But you are correct we are splitting hairs lol they’re the 2 worst
I think you guys should avoid talking with absolutes when it's clear you know next to nothing about kotal.
I asked a question about him and if you’re gonna talk about what we don’t know how about you add what you do know? Do you think he’s better than Frost? Better than people think?
 

DeftMonk

Noob
One thing that I found interesting is frost (in the one variation that no one uses) can freeze people after a short hop overhead for full combo. I couldnt get any real reliable setup for it tho other than some crap that required you to hit them with a d1 as they are getting up off the ground into short hop (obviously not useful). But ya kinda cool to know that the move can freeze OTG in the right circumstance.
 

Xzyj

Noob
One thing that I found interesting is frost (in the one variation that no one uses) can freeze people after a short hop overhead for full combo. I couldnt get any real reliable setup for it tho other than some crap that required you to hit them with a d1 as they are getting up off the ground into short hop (obviously not useful). But ya kinda cool to know that the move can freeze OTG in the right circumstance.
it can't, test it with auto block on dummy, bomb gets autoblocked after getting hit with hop
 

Wigy

There it is...
I came up with a few setups with bomb where an antiair spin will launch into it. Variation is extremely hard word and shit tho
 

Qwark28

Jacks off to good voice acting
B22 isn’t phenomenal and she doesn’t have a great anti air game. Annoying doesn’t mean good. If I burn my meter to make bf3 annoying I can’t use that meter to launch. Frost will need frame and range buffs to be good too. But you are correct we are splitting hairs lol they’re the 2 worst

I asked a question about him and if you’re gonna talk about what we don’t know how about you add what you do know? Do you think he’s better than Frost? Better than people think?
I was referring more to the 2nd post assuming kotal is all yolo.

The matchup is most probably either even or in kotals favor, but my only matchup experience is my training partner's week 2 frost so I won't say anything beyond that.
 

Wigy

There it is...
I was referring more to the 2nd post assuming kotal is all yolo.

The matchup is most probably either even or in kotals favor, but my only matchup experience is my training partner's week 2 frost so I won't say anything beyond that.
How do you get in against frost?

D4 should challenge basically everything and you kinda have to hold her zoning.
 
In frostbyte variation, to make it even worse, when you go for a bomb into grab freeze setup, if you grab to early frost will pull him out of bomb range rofl
 

Wigy

There it is...
I'm 90% sure the bomb has a smaller hitbox when the opponent is in hitstun.

It's hitbox isn't terrible when just raw but trying to get ANYTHING to link into it is such a fine art.
 

Qwark28

Jacks off to good voice acting
How do you get in against frost?

D4 should challenge basically everything and you kinda have to hold her zoning.
Best wavedash in the game, F2 and J1.

For reference, the timestamp is how fast kotal's wavedash is when done perfectly.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Best wavedash in the game, F2 and J1.

For reference, the timestamp is how fast kotal's wavedash is when done perfectly.
I mean I guess so yeah. I've not seen it in practice.

In my head kotal relies on long range moves and if you can challenge him with a long range poke it shuts down his approach. You know the character though idk. Two rare characters so hard to know that high level mu experience.
 

DeftMonk

Noob
I mean I guess so yeah. I've not seen it in practice.

In my head kotal relies on long range moves and if you can challenge him with a long range poke it shuts down his approach. You know the character though idk. Two rare characters so hard to know that high level mu experience.
Frost start up isn’t super fast on those moves if you think she’s gonna wait a minute then f2 or w/e just chill whiff punish. Not like she can do that shit on reaction when Kotal goes in.