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Ultimate Frost analysis, things that need to change

Xzyj

Noob
Introduction:
Hi guys, as a premise i would like to say that i've been playing frost since release and stopped at around shang release, been using her online in ranked with decent success (something like 78-9 on PC and 46-4 on PS4) + played a lot of offline sets with friends that play at a high level and at this point they somewhat know the matchup(she's still very rare of a character to play against) and understand her gameplan.

I don't play this game much lately due to reasons not related to Frost herself but i see a lot of misinformation going around about her being shit or not viable or in dire need of buffs so i decided to create this thread in hopes that if NRS reads TYM they can get a more in-depth analysis of her current kit and what can cause positive effects on her overall character design if changed/tweaked. Plus, i think it's nice to discuss these things to try and find good solutions since we all have different experiences. And one important thing - i will only discuss frost Ice Machine variation here since i believe it's the only viable one currently, frost bomb is interesting concept but i believe she loses with it simply because she can't compete in damage department with other characters while not getting too much value from having bomb and overhead special.


Gameplan:
Okay, let's start.
Frost excels at controlling space and forcing your opponent to make mistakes by pressuring them with throws and staggers, while controlling their movement with f2 (if they walk back/forward or perform actions), b2, b22 (if you're testing them on oki, whiff punishing or just throwing it out in neutral to check for movement). She has amazing anti-airs in s4, d3 and s1. d3 is especially good but some jump kicks will still beat you out most of the times (baraka/shao), so adjust accordingly to the matchup.
Her gameplan revolves around throws and mids just like any character if you're playing against defensive players, and having 2 KB on throws helps tremendeously in that aspect, even if you don't get to use them in match, just a fear of reading 50/50 into 310 damage makes people start to jump/wakeup and press buttons on knockdowns and panic when you come close to them, so that's when you start the space controlling game and use her amazing neutral tools.

On the round start you want to slowly build your advantage, take your space and feel the opponent, the best start for her is just walking back imo, if opponent jumps you can anti air, if they zone - you can start approaching and baiting actions, if they rush you down you can create enough space to whiff punish with 344/b22/13 depending on range, or stop the approach with d1/d4. If you happened to get a knockdown, depending on which knockdown you got you get multiple options:
  1. you ended with drill EX - dash forward once into b22 will catch any action besides roll/delay wakeup for guaranteed damage if they tried to jump/move, or will start offense if they decided to block
  2. ending with spin allows you to choose between 2 options - first is obviously zoning due to the range you build with that ender, but i believe her zoning is lacking in a lot of matchups and you get outzoned if you don't have hp advantage, but since the spin gives you very good advantage on knockdown you can also go for second option and that is simply approaching into applying more pressure and playing spacing game.
In the corner you want to make them afraid to move as much as possible, stay at your perfect range for b22 whiff punish if they wake up/roll and anti-air (i mostly use 43 as anti air against opp in the corner cause it allows for big damage combo follow up), once they are conditioned to stay in the corner and wait - you can start applying throwing game, by simply walking/dashing forward and doing b12 or throw, if b12 is blocked - you end it in spin to stay safe (you can also end it in b121 against big characters to guarantee it will not whiff but that's something you have to keep in mind, if you're playing against other characters and it whiffs - you're dead, so the risk is 100% not worth it), if b12 hit you confirm into db4-ex and continue with your combo into another spin knockdown and a mixup, if you know your opponent is gonna be panicking and scared of throw you can also bait them by dashing forward and immediately walking backwards into b22 to whiff punish pokes/throw break attempts

So for the most part that's her entire gameplan as i see it, you can also add other strings and normals in pressure (staggering 3 and 344 is good, b4 is a good check, 43 stagger is good, 22 is good) but these are additional tools and you can implement them as you wish.


Things that you have to avoid at all costs:
  1. Never end her strings into natural overhead enders on block during pressure (b2212, 3442, b32d1), all these options are full combo punishable, you don't get good rewards for getting hits from them(besides the launcher obviously) and in case of 3442 and b32d1 there's also a huge gap, so if they mash they will beat you out regardless, if you really want to check their actions after these strings before overheads just end it in spin/spin-EX to stay safe and check movement.
  2. Never use b121 last hit, always end first 2 hits into spin to stay safe, since currently last hit whiffs on both block and neutral duck on many characters leaving you open for a shitton of frames allowing your opponent to sip on a glass of wine before doing biggest damage punishes on you.
  3. Don't rely on dd1 to save you against zoning or help you to approach, this move in it's current form is really bad and you're better off slowly moving forward with blocks/neutral ducks, it's very rare when this move is actually helpful and i mostly use it after db4 EX into jump-in just to swag on people during combos
  4. Never end your combos into drill if your opponent has 2 defensive bars, end it in spin instead. The reason for that is good players will use it to punish you just like people punish similar situations for other characters (erron slide ender, lao spin combos), drill has a ton of recovery and if they break away at the right moment - you will get full combo punished, but spin on whiff ends faster and allows you to recover in time and be safe, does very sligthly less damage and gives you a lot of advantage on knockdown regardless, the only downside is that you can't EX it midscreen optimally, some hits will whiff, while drills-ex will do maximum damage and maximum corner carry. Just use it wisely.
  5. Don't always hitconfirm your b22 into ex-freeze, judge it's distance and use correct move. In some cases if you hit them with b22 at max distance your freeze will whiff and you will be sad, but don't be. If you do drill or spin instead you can still punish them and be happy, it's not necessary to buff freeze range if we still have options (you have to EX the spin though because only the first hit hits on max distances and other hits whiff, EX spin allows you to catch up to the opponent for full damage though).
  6. Never throw F2 randomly, that's your space control tool, not approach tool, it can be avoided by duck-blocking so you're not forcing any mixup between F2 and B2 either, just slowly come to them if you want to approach, use F2 only to check their movement/actions if you're sure they gonna do something to keep them contained in the space you want.
Things that are necessary to learn for a Frost player:
In my opinion she is very technical character, and you have to work hard in the lab to make her truly viable, learning the best possible combos and getting your perfect timing after pokes for B1 check (before that just go for a throw or b4 if you expect them to mash poke back at you after getting hit by it), if you will settle for easier combos i don't think she can compete very well, you have to get max value off of every hit.
So, things that you have to absolutely learn as Frost player:
  1. Walking. Extremely important for her, her long walk animations are very bad, she starts off fast but her speed lowers down to turtle levels very fast, so for optimal movement you want to do either perfect dash-blocks, or good tempo walk-stop walk-stop for maximum speed efficiency. That will allow you for easier time in whiff punishing and approaching characters that can keep you out very well (Sonya, Cassie, Liu).
  2. Patience. You will need time to adjust to your opponent and know how they play, so just take your time and don't force mixups too much, keep your space and react accordingly until you get a good read - then either start applying pressure if they are playing too defensively to make them move and make mistakes, or just let them kill themselves with jumps and whiffs while you are walking back and controlling space.
  3. Dashing in for punishes. It sucks, i agree, but you have to get used to that - blocked something negative? Dash in 13~db4EX, there's no way around it, you don't want to blame the game for Frosts standing 1 range, you want to blame yourself for not adapting, she gets a ton of damage out of her 13 punish too, so get used to doing dashes for punishes.
  4. Knowing the reach of your and your opponent normals. This is essential for whiff punishing and for her gameplan to work.
  5. Combos. Listen, i know we don't want to look lame and drop big combos just to get punished, but difference in getting 300 and 380 damage is big and will add up in rounds, you will find yourself in situations where your opponent is alive with 30 hp and you will lose these games thinking that you could've killed them with better combos, so practice them. There are very hard combos midscreen too that are character specific, these are worth practicing too but only if you can really really make them work consistently, otherwise you lose much more than you're gaining, but stuff like anti-air confirms, KB confirms and corner combos are a must and have to be efficient.
Combos that i use:

Midscreen:

  1. b32d1, dash forward db4-EX, jump over kick, 13~drill/spin
  2. any ground starter - db4-EX, dash back/dash forward+jump over, Ji2 b32d1, dash forward 1, dash forward 13~spin/drill
  3. b22 and 13 starter - db4-EX, jump over kick, b32d1, dash forward 13~spin/drill (optimal against females and these strings leave you at perfect range for jump kick to work more reliably)
  4. any ground starter - db4-EX, dash back/dash forward+jump over, Ji2, b32d1, b32d1, dash forward 13~drill (only works on certain characters and requires VERY precise timing and execution, max damage mid screen, check other topic here in Frost section to get more info)
  5. Jump kick - drill/spin (you can technically get a lot of damage by doing jumpkick into db4-EX and jump over kick into 13-spin but the success of that will depend on what side they will fly, towards you or from you, i haven't practised these much so i'm mostly using drill after)
  6. (midscreen to corner) b32d1, dash forward 1, dash forward 13~db4-EX, jump kick, 13~spin
KB midscreen:
  1. b2212 KB - (close distance punish) dash forward, 13~drill/spin
  2. b2212KB - (far distance punish), small dash forward, b2-drill (13 will whiff on some characters at max range of b2212 KB punish)
  3. D2 KB - b3~db4-EX, jump over kick, 13~drill
  4. bf4 KB - dash forward, 13~drill
Corner:
  1. any ground starter- db4-EX, dash back, Ji2, b32d1, b32d1, 344~spin/ex spin (you can swap drill/spin ender for db4 ender if you want to mess up with their wake-up timings because the recovery from it is very fast and you can start inputting your string/throw right when you end the combo)
  2. b32d1, b32d1, 13~db4-EX, jump kick-spin/D2 (D2 will give you maximum damage without commiting to metered version of special, but wil get them out of the corner)
  3. Jump kick - 1, 13~db4-EX, jump kick, 13~spin/drill/db4 (very easy to do and hit confirm, if you have troubles confirming into that after seeing your jump kick hit you can also go for d3~db4EX since it gives you a lot of time to input that)
KB corner:
  1. b2212, dash forward, 4~db3, dash forward again (just in case) 13~db4-EX, jump kick, 13~spin
  2. anything into drills - dash forward 1~db3, 13~db4-EX, jump kick, 13~spin
  3. D2, dash forward, 4~db3, dash forward again (just in case) 13~db4-EX, jump kick, 13~spin
Anti-air:
(close to corner) 43, (max height) 13~db4EX, jump kick, 13~spin
(close to corner) 43 (random height), d3~db4EX, jump kick, 13~spin
(close to corner) d3, dash forward 13~db4EX, jump kick, 13~spin
(midscreen) d3, 13~spin
(midscreen) 43~drill
(midscreen) 1, dash forward, 13~spin

There are harder combos for anti-air that include freezes midscreen but they are very inconsistent and depend on character positions too much so don't lose on damage, do simple ones here.

Unbreakable:
Any ground starter into db4~ex, Ji2, 344~spin


So since we got all of that out of the way, what are exactly her problems? What needs to change?
  1. As i mentioned before her b121 last hit whiffs on crouch blocking and neutral ducking opponents (last hit is a mid), it's character dependant but not in Frosts favor, it whiffs on most of the cast randomly and on all female characters very often, last hit on block makes this string safe and gives you perfect distance to continue playing spacing game, but since it whiffs you have to resort into ending first 2 hits into spin to stay safe, however spin leaves you right at your opponent face where Frost struggles the most with her slow normals and pokes. If spin was not safe, this string would not be usable at all, but currently you can still use it, however this needs to be fixed and it will be a huge help already, because you would be able to check them with a mid safely and build back space on block to continue with her gameplan.
  2. b32d1 second hit of the string whiffs on crouch-blocking and neutral ducking opponents randomly, similar to b121 whiff issue, mostly occurs against female characters but often happens against some other characters as well (mainly kang and johnny). This is pretty big because you use this string occasionally in pressure but stop at 2 hits, or 2 hits+spin to stay safe, however if 2nd hit whiffs you're open for a full punish, so right now you have to resort to mostly using this string in combos or against characters you know it won't whiff, needs to be fixed as well, not gonna make a huge difference but would be good QOL change.
  3. DD1-EX needs to be changed (projectile shield), right now the only difference between this and meterless version is how fast the shield travels, Frost has same recovery and it only absorbs 1 projectile as her meterless shield, so basically it does nothing different compared to her usual shield because they both have a lot of recovery and you can never use it in neutral to actually contest projectiles, maximum value from that move is absorbing 1 projectile and maybe moving slightly forward because of it but you might as well just dash-block or dash/crouch with more efficient approach towards your opponent instead of using this move. I don't mind this move even deleted if they change it to something more useful tbh.
  4. Personally i don't have problem with her being very weak up-close, i think that's exactly how they wanted her to be from the start considering how well she controls space and considering she has huge threat in her KB on throws already so making her good upclose would be a disaster, BUT i think while there are characters in this game with very fast pokes that are barely minus, her upclose game has to be adressed a little, right now after poking people on hit she cannot confirm that plus into pressure from high attacks (they simply don't reach) to check for opponent movement, and her mids and lows start at 16 frames if you want to get any real damage for contesting your opponent mash, (her pokes make you +10, if opponent has 6fr startup poke you have to be perfect on b1 to trade and then if you did trade you have to dash up and do 13~db4-EX to actually convert into combo which is a little ridiculous), you have alternatives in doing throw, b4, or doing another poke but these options don't feel good and feel more like a last resort kind of thing just to do "something" instead of actually checking mashers. There are multiple solutions to fix that, people mostly suggest making b1 startup sligthly faster, but i think it can be fixed in a better way while still keeping her to her core design without adding more powerful up-close tools and it's...
  5. Her standing 1 and standing 3 range. These things need to be extended a little bit and allow me to explain why. I don't have much hate towards dashing forward into punishing people, but some things are so barely minus and are being punished by the whole cast easily with standing 1 while frost has to struggle in that department and you have to guess if you'll dash up in time to get your punish or you'll get poked/d2 KBd for trying to punish and such (glaring examples of hard to punish stuff is jade overheads, scorpion double slash overhead at certain distances, there are also other moves however i believe you can get consistent with others if you practice your timing of dash enough, but it can be just fixed with extended horizontal hitbox of standing 1). Standing 3 horizontal hitbox extension would be nice for the same reason but also because right now one of the hits from that normal (it has 2 hits) can randomly whiff on opponents both on hit and on block, making you end up with worse situation on block or even dropping you a combo if the first hit whiffed after Ji2, so if that can be fixed it would be a huge help too. And the final reason for those 2 to have extended horizontal hitbox is poke-war advantage. You know how other characters can poke opponent and if they time their high correctly they can beat their opponents out of hitstun if they mash something? Well Frost can't do that, she simply doesn't reach after getting poke on hit, so these changes might help with that too, so she'll stay technical as she is and will not need any buffs to her mids/lows to check opponents, this will make her up-close defensive game better without making her better upclose character in pressure.
  6. Her KBs can use some work. Right now b2212 KB and drill KB have very little damage difference compared to her normal bnb's midscreen and add only around 20-50 damage in the corner depending on the KB, and while i think they are mostly fine even though very situational and not very rewarding, i can see how people are upset with them and want something better, especially when you compared it to stuff that Geras has (i know, it's the easiest example but you get the point). My suggestion would be to make both KB's drop your opponent closer to you just like D2 KB does and have similar/same recovery as D2 KB, this way it will allow for better damage and consistent combos midscreen (will be around 330 and 390 midscreen for both KB's respectively, b2212 has very bad scaling) and a little more damage in the corner. (probably around 30-40 damage more)
That's basically it, i don't think she needs many other changes if any, perfect block on her b22 is very hard to do and it can be blown up by b2 spin or even b22 spin against certain reversals so it's a mindgame if people are fishing for PB, her damage is good for her archetype (~300 midscreen, 300-380 corner, 350-400 KB), her anti airs are good, i really like her design but would love some things to be adressed.

Sorry for the wall of text, didn't really know how to approach this kind of post exactly, but i hope it's gonna be useful for Frost players and maybe for NRS while thinking on how to balance her. Thanks for your attention.
 
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xenogorgeous

Seriously .... really ?
Premium Supporter
amazing analysis, despite being a TL;DR thread, hehe .... you're truly an "Frost" expert of high level caliber, hehe .... I loved when Tweedy went crazy on CEO and picked her up against NinjaKilla, she has potential ! :cool:
 
Nice analysis ... after putting countless hours into her and being a god rank player i shall admit NRS need to buff her close up game , yes i understood your statement about it but look at Cassie or shang or scarlet. Specifically Cassie that can out play her in every area. Apart from the fact that she can't deal with pressure at all , i must note here that because of her slow mids , usually good players are aware if frost gets close to them it means she's going to grab cuz there's no 50/50 mid-grab option for her.

They only thing i want to change is : Faster B1( 11-12 frames ) + fixing her whiffing issues. That's all.
 

Xzyj

Noob
Nice analysis ... after putting countless hours into her and being a god rank player i shall admit NRS need to buff her close up game , yes i understood your statement about it but look at Cassie or shang or scarlet. Specifically Cassie that can out play her in every area. Apart from the fact that she can't deal with pressure at all , i must note here that because of her slow mids , usually good players are aware if frost gets close to them it means she's going to grab cuz there's no 50/50 mid-grab option for her.

They only thing i want to change is : Faster B1( 11-12 frames ) + fixing her whiffing issues. That's all.
I understand the frustraition and i get the comparison. however i would like to note that Cassie doesn't have 2 KBs (or any KBs) on her throws and does less damage than Frost overall. And i disagree about no 50/50 mid-grab, she still can use her B1 while dashing in if people expect throw, it's not like people will try to fuzzy guard your throw, or use 6 frame difference to beat you out of the mid somehow, i'm not against changing her mid to be faster though, i just think they wanted it to be like that so she can't use b1 for pressure as much
 

Wigy

There it is...
I understand the frustraition and i get the comparison. however i would like to note that Cassie doesn't have 2 KBs (or any KBs) on her throws and does less damage than Frost overall. And i disagree about no 50/50 mid-grab, she still can use her B1 while dashing in if people expect throw, it's not like people will try to fuzzy guard your throw, or use 6 frame difference to beat you out of the mid somehow, i'm not against changing her mid to be faster though, i just think they wanted it to be like that so she can't use b1 for pressure as much
Tbf Frost's KBs are ass.

A decent portion of the cast have 2 grab KBs and bunch of other good ones.

Frost's b22 one leads to no damage unless in the corner. The drill one almost never lands. Landing a MB drill you gotta risk a full combo or do it grounded.

I'll get round to actually reading this at some point. It's hefty. Good effort though.
 

Xzyj

Noob
Why would you ever use b1 instead of b3?

Btw very nice post btw op, very detailed
b1 has better vertical hitbox so you catch people who try to jump out of your pressure easier with it, and the fact that b32 second hit whiffs sometimes on block makes it less desireble to be a thing you want to check people with.

Tbf Frost's KBs are ass.
I agree about b22 KB being mostly useless (very slight damage amplification, even though it's nice to have), but drill KB amplifies your damage a lot in the corner, you get 417 damage from b22~drill KB starter in the corner with 1 meter compared to b22~db4-EX starter while using 2 meters for 360 damage, that a significant boost. You also get 513 meterless with b22~drill KB into b12 FB compared to around 412 with the b22 into freeze starter into optimal combo for FB, that's a 10% boost. In short the scaling on drill KB is very good for Frost so i can see it being useful, the problem is that you usually don't get to use it at all in matches, maybe easier condition could be good for that one? Like 2 ex drills to proc the condition instead of current need of landing 3?
 

Wigy

There it is...
b1 has better vertical hitbox so you catch people who try to jump out of your pressure easier with it, and the fact that b32 second hit whiffs sometimes on block makes it less desireble to be a thing you want to check people with.


I agree about b22 KB being mostly useless (very slight damage amplification, even though it's nice to have), but drill KB amplifies your damage a lot in the corner, you get 417 damage from b22~drill KB starter in the corner with 1 meter compared to b22~db4-EX starter while using 2 meters for 360 damage, that a significant boost. You also get 513 meterless with b22~drill KB into b12 FB compared to around 412 with the b22 into freeze starter into optimal combo for FB, that's a 10% boost. In short the scaling on drill KB is very good for Frost so i can see it being useful, the problem is that you usually don't get to use it at all in matches, maybe easier condition could be good for that one? Like 2 ex drills to proc the condition instead of current need of landing 3?
That's what I'm saying. B22 scaling is awful and drill you'll rarely get.

They could just make it 3 regular drills or two mb ones.
 

Xzyj

Noob
Basically any hit that you can convert into drill KB in the corner will give you a ton of damage, jump kick for example:
 

karaokelove

Dead or alive, you’re coming with me.
Premium Supporter
Basically any hit that you can convert into drill KB in the corner will give you a ton of damage, jump kick for example:
Baraka, with infinitely better zoning, rushdown, and safety, gets almost that much damage for 1 bar without a KB anywhere on screen. Frost is a garbage character and in desperate need of a significant overhaul to make her viable.
 

SLy

Premium
Premium Supporter
Baraka, with infinitely better zoning, rushdown, and safety, gets almost that much damage for 1 bar without a KB anywhere on screen. Frost is a garbage character and in desperate need of a significant overhaul to make her viable.
gotta disagree man. Frost is no where near garbage. She still needs minor damage tweaks but her with a significant overhaul will break her lol. Just gotta play a different game.
 

karaokelove

Dead or alive, you’re coming with me.
Premium Supporter
gotta disagree man. Frost is no where near garbage. She still needs minor damage tweaks but her with a significant overhaul will break her lol. Just gotta play a different game.
In a bubble she could be considered fine, but compared to the other characters in the game, there is just no reason to play her. She’s got zero dirt in a game full of nonsense. She’s just too basic and honest to compete.
 
Does she have any legit set-ups off of her rolling head? Set ups where she throws her head but is still plus enough to oki? It doesn't work in the corner because her head rolls offscreen even when done close (lol why) but midscreen ive ended combos in 22bd2b for a semi-set up. You give up around 4 percent but your opponent still has plenty of counter play because you're negative. I'm not sure how negative but i know the opponent can wake up jump forward and be in the air before you.

I'm trying to work it into my gameplan but it seems a little iffy.
 

Xzyj

Noob
Great guide but i always wondered why is dash 13 used after the b32d1 string when b12 is easier to perform and does more damage?
^comment above and another reason is that dash 1, dash 13~special does more damage than raw b12 into special
 
Reactions: JSF

Wigy

There it is...
Frost's best trait along with her zoning is corner Oki pressure.

That's where I get most of the wins. If you want to get your frost better. Iron out your options after enders, spacing etc.

She's pretty oppressive once you get it all down.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Think talking about patch changes is just blueballing ourselves. NRS is making us wait fucking eons for the patch and no doubt they'll forget about frost or give her some dumb shit.
 
Reactions: JSF
Think talking about patch changes is just blueballing ourselves. NRS is making us wait fucking eons for the patch and no doubt they'll forget about frost or give her some dumb shit.
I honestly believe (hope) she will get a massive rework, there is so much stuff that doesn't make any sense. Why ice crown replaces her projectile? Why it goes out of screen in the corner, and no hitbox? Why that shield is so garbage? Why amp shield is super hot garbage? Why so many strings are absolutely useless? Why her name is Frost and the only realistic way to freeze is db4 amp?

Like the other guy said, she is very honest in game game with 50% dmg 50/50s, cheap kbs, unreactable special moves, scorps teleport...

Fix all her shlt, and give her jax treatment: if she repeatedly hits you with some specials (bf3, db3, etc) she freezes you.
 

Wigy

There it is...
Idk why people say the shields useless. If you land her spin. Launch a full screen grenade and pop shield. The grenade covers the startup of the shield and then you can get a free projectile. In matchups like Cassie with her low shit it lets you punish her with drill.

It's not amazing but it's not useless.

NRS has been making nonsense balance decisions in this game so I'm just waiting for them to barely nerf the stupid ass characters and give frost like a faster s4 and that's it.
 

Xzyj

Noob
Does she have any legit set-ups off of her rolling head? Set ups where she throws her head but is still plus enough to oki? It doesn't work in the corner because her head rolls offscreen even when done close (lol why) but midscreen ive ended combos in 22bd2b for a semi-set up. You give up around 4 percent but your opponent still has plenty of counter play because you're negative. I'm not sure how negative but i know the opponent can wake up jump forward and be in the air before you.

I'm trying to work it into my gameplan but it seems a little iffy.
mostly after spin ender in the corner, she has some nasty stuff with the bomb, like using throw interactibles to freeze people from pokes and you can reuse those again because they didn't trigger, but you sacrifice a ton of damage from ice machine for that so it's hard to go for bomb variation, i think it can be used though, just likely not as effective. Not sure about midscreen setups since i didn't research them much, i really like the ability for ice machine to convert from anything so i didn't spend too much time with bomb variation besides of looking for some dirty stuff
 

JSF

Best Worst character Main
This is a really good guide for anyone looking to learn how to play Frost. only problem is she is the worst character in the game :(

Does she have any legit set-ups off of her rolling head? Set ups where she throws her head but is still plus enough to oki? It doesn't work in the corner because her head rolls offscreen even when done close (lol why) but midscreen ive ended combos in 22bd2b for a semi-set up. You give up around 4 percent but your opponent still has plenty of counter play because you're negative. I'm not sure how negative but i know the opponent can wake up jump forward and be in the air before you.

I'm trying to work it into my gameplan but it seems a little iffy.
her rolling head variation is horrible, it might have some utility in certain matchups she loses horribly but it doesnt have a launcher or zoning so it cripples her long range game and her damage
 

JSF

Best Worst character Main
What she needs to be really good:
KB's reworked
Hitboxes extended
7f regular poke
10-12f mid
ex shield absorbs 2 projectiles instead of going faster
gaps removed
less startup on b2
less recovery overall
 
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