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U2's Need A Rework Badly

Afumba

Afumba

Noob
trufenix said:
Just don't use them? You have about 40 different wake up options.
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Sure, lets keep a mechanic that is unbalanced and stupid instead of making it at least more fair, which you know is the point of this discussion.

You are completely missing the point and ignoring that some are better than others (some even useless) which give characters additional options in some situations others cant access and this with an universal mechanic. If your tool is horribly bad there isnt really an option to use/ not use it.

If you wanted to make a reasonable comment referencing MKX you should have said something like "remove them, you have lots of options without them".

Even everbody having a stupid universal halfscreen armored wakeup launcher would be better than how it is now. It would be super dumb but at least everybody would have one.
 
T

trufenix

bye felicia
Afumba said:
Sure, lets keep a mechanic that is unbalanced and stupid instead of making it at least more fair, which you know is the point of this discussion.

You are completely missing the point and ignoring that some are better than others (some even useless) which give characters additional options in some situations others cant access and this with an universal mechanic. If your tool is horribly bad there isnt really an option to use/ not use it.

If you wanted to make a reasonable comment referencing MKX you should have said something like "remove them, you have lots of options without them".

Even everbody having a stupid universal halfscreen armored wakeup launcher would be better than how it is now. It would be super dumb but at least everybody would have one.
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I'm still waiting for you armchair geniuses to post the video from MKX that proves your point. Hell, I'm waiting for you to even re-install the game and play a match since its so much better than 11. But you won't.
 
NRF CharlieMurphy

NRF CharlieMurphy

Kindergarten Meta
U2s should simply use everyone's d2 animation and be 8 frames. Slower than in game parrys... but basically doing the same thing.

and then either.... remove the offensive meter usage needed...... or fucking use the ENTIRE bar and remove whatever stupid scaling someone thought was a good idea.

There is ZERO reason that these are variable. They shoudl just be the d2 KB (without animation) launch with proper damage to make them desirable and feared.

the U3s shoudl also be universal in speed and distance as well. I get REALLY tired of Scorpion hitting me with u3 when i'm at the top of my jump (exaggeration) or half screen away (exaggeration).

These mechanics are great ideas to have in this game..... and they're so poorly executed I almost think it wasn't fully tested (because those people spoke out about crunch and were fired).
 
V

versavices

Noob
Skarlet’s U2 nets you a decent combo, (U2, 212, 44, DB4F), but holy shit it’s so bad at actually anti-airing. Her U3 seems to be more effective to stop jump ins than her anti-air. I think a lot of characters are in this same boat.

I’d personally change U2 to only cost 1 offensive bar. Kinda makes more sense to me. Roll = pure defense, 1 defense bar. U3 is armor + damage so 1 defensive and offensive bar makes sense. U2 can be the damage only option.

I really wish they designed separate flawless block attacks from wake up attacks though. :/
 
Afumba

Afumba

Noob
trufenix said:
I'm still waiting for you armchair geniuses to post the video from MKX that proves your point. Hell, I'm waiting for you to even re-install the game and play a match since its so much better than 11. But you won't.
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Wasnt making an MKX point you were and you bought it up. I simply meant to say that your "dont use it" comment is an asinine comment without any value. Same goes for your reply to me as far as i am concerned.

Nobody said that MKX is better than 11 either. MKX died for several reasons, it simply wasnt a great game. And dispite 11 being the better game (in my opinion anyway) there are still things in X that i like better. I dont have to reinstall the game either, never uninstalled it. And i still occasionally play it since 11 released. Reasons are a) to goof around with Ermac/Mileena and b) to remind me how fun combos and variety are compared to 11.

All this has still nothing to do with U2/U3. Everything stated in the OP would make the mechanic better and more fair as is now. There is a difference between "not having/needing a mechanic" and "i have a mechanic that is useless but the other guy can make use of it" which you dont seem to understand.

I also dont have to proof shit to you. You rather have the mechanic be as is (unbalanced and dumb) just to avoid making it worse. In my oppinion this is a garbage attitude. Either remove the mechanic (which is what you should have said instead of "dont use it") if its not needed or make it work for everyone. Its a universal mechanic, so why does someone like Geras, who is already semi broken, get to have access to even more options while someone like Kotal or Jade "just dont use it".

So again your "dont use it" comment is pathetic and i am still searching for the reason why you even bothered to comment.
 
Chernyy Volk

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
Afumba said:
Wasnt making an MKX point you were and you bought it up. I simply meant to say that your "dont use it" comment is an asinine comment without any value. Same goes for your reply to me as far as i am concerned.

Nobody said that MKX is better than 11 either. MKX died for several reasons, it simply wasnt a great game. And dispite 11 being the better game (in my opinion anyway) there are still things in X that i like better. I dont have to reinstall the game either, never uninstalled it. And i still occasionally play it since 11 released. Reasons are a) to goof around with Ermac/Mileena and b) to remind me how fun combos and variety are compared to 11.

All this has still nothing to do with U2/U3. Everything stated in the OP would make the mechanic better and more fair as is now. There is a difference between "not having/needing a mechanic" and "i have a mechanic that is useless but the other guy can make use of it" which you dont seem to understand.

I also dont have to proof shit to you. You rather have the mechanic be as is (unbalanced and dumb) just to avoid making it worse. In my oppinion this is a garbage attitude. Either remove the mechanic (which is what you should have said instead of "dont use it") if its not needed or make it work for everyone. Its a universal mechanic, so why does someone like Geras, who is already semi broken, get to have access to even more options while someone like Kotal or Jade "just dont use it".

So again your "dont use it" comment is pathetic and i am still searching for the reason why you even bothered to comment.
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The fact this guy even brought MKX into the discussion proves he's an idiot.

I think he's trying to... equate what's essentially a Third Strike red parry that costs resources to an armored launcher? How fucking dumb is that? The skillcap on the usage of one versus another is obvious lol.
 
dungeonsector

dungeonsector

AI Fighter
I hate how any time someone asks for a mechanic in MK11 to be buffed, at least one person says some dumb shit like, "Oh yeah so I guess you want this game to turn into MKX now huh? Why don't you go back and play that game if you really want to make MK11 that one-dimensional." No... the post is about how unbalanced the current system of U2's are currently, and how we can fix it to make the game better.

Personally, I agree with balancing out the U2's in this game to the same amount of frames, and giving them more priority against neutral jumps and jump-ins. Some chars can just shut down all your options with a neutral jump in the corner, which is crazy stupid.
 
LawAbidingCitizen

LawAbidingCitizen

Bomb Setups & Ball Rolls(Mileena/Cyrax)
Chernyy Volk said:
RIP
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Shangs U2 is absolutely garbage despite being fast. Same for many others. I say just make the ones that wiff or don't work as intended have better hitboxes. No U2 should hit grounded opponents behind them.
I say increase the intital damage for all and make them all around 9f to 12f
 
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Chernyy Volk

Chernyy Volk

Wolf lord, footsie bully, chronic corner abuser.
LawAbidingCitizen said:
Shangs U2 is absolutely garbage despite being fast. Same for many others. I say just make the ones that wiff or don't work as intended have better hitboxes. No U2 should hit grounded opponents.
I say increase the intital damage for all and make them all around 9f to 12f
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"No U2 should hit grounded opponents."

Muted.
 
KutlessMyth

KutlessMyth

mental and fundamental
Chernyy Volk said:
U2's are terrible and a waste of a mechanic and I kinda wanna talk about them.

They

1: Don't do what they were meant to do reliably. Act as high reward anti airs and as exceptional punishes on predictable staggers. The reward is pitiful in most cases especially considering the read AND resources you spend doing it.

2: The characters with the best U2's happen to be the ones that also usually get the best damage

3: The speed disparities between U2's. Geras can launch literally anything in the game, Frost is close to not being able to U2 anything at all.

The thing about this mechanic and why I think it needs addressing is this is one of the things in the game with the potential to be THE MU cruncher, the equalizer. There are a couple of fixes I've thought about, but first here's some data about whose U2's are what for reference.

My barometers for milestones are, can you U2 a deep Geras Body Splash, Baraka J3, or a Liu Kang jump kick safe jump after bf4 MB in the corner.

6-8F U2's: You can launch everything in the game hitboxes aside including every d1 in the game.

Cetrion
Geras
Johnny Cage
Kano
Kitana
kung Lao
Liu Kang
Shang Tsung
Sonya

9f U2's: You can launch any jump in no matter how meaty including safe jumps and you blow up most predictable staggers that aren't crouch pokes.

D'vorah
Erron Black
Kollector
Raiden
Shao Khan
Skarlet

10-14f U2's: This is useless. It only works on certain strings with gaps. You cannot raw U2 most normals, strings, string into special cancels and can never U2 a jump in that isn't caught very pre-emptively.

Baraka
Cassie
Frost (14f bois)
Jacqui
Jade
Jax
Kabal
Kotal
Noob
Scorpion
Sub Zero

As you can see, most of the characters with the best/most reliable U2's are top tiers or sleeper top tiers. Kano and Kitana don't benefit from this because U2's do shit damage, and a pretty good chunk of the cast have U2's that just can't be used really.

So, I have two different overhauls in mind.

Fix number one: All U2's are in the 9f territory, do 10% damage, and are always -15 on block. Easy uniform solution. Everyone can use them the same way, everyone gets solid damage that rightfully coincides with their character archetype.

Fix number two: This one is more elaborate, and would maybe make for some interesting character distinction. Basically, the more accessible/usable your U2 is, the less damage it does and the more unsafe on block it is.

So

6-8f U2's: They stay doing 5% damage.
9f U2's: Do 8% damage, are full combo punishable on block in the event your opponent baits you.
10-14f U2's: Do 12% damage, are safe on block.

So yeah, I'm curious on peoples thoughts on this and tell me what solution you'd like better. I want to see this mechanic more usable.
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Kitana's has a balancing built in with hit hitbox.
or as I call it, the shitbox. most times she moves backwards too much on the U2 (not the U3, though she moves back on that too) and she misses her flawless block punish and then gets punished
 
Hellbringer

Hellbringer

1 2 3 drink
LawAbidingCitizen said:
Shangs U2 is absolutely garbage despite being fast. Same for many others. I say just make the ones that wiff or don't work as intended have better hitboxes. No U2 should hit grounded opponents behind them.
I say increase the intital damage for all and make them all around 9f to 12f
Click to expand...
Shangs U2 is not as bad as you say, atleast it hits ppl that are above your head.
 
T

trufenix

bye felicia
Afumba said:
Wasnt making an MKX point you were and you bought it up. I simply meant to say that your "dont use it" comment is an asinine comment without any value. Same goes for your reply to me as far as i am concerned.

Nobody said that MKX is better than 11 either. MKX died for several reasons, it simply wasnt a great game. And dispite 11 being the better game (in my opinion anyway) there are still things in X that i like better. I dont have to reinstall the game either, never uninstalled it. And i still occasionally play it since 11 released. Reasons are a) to goof around with Ermac/Mileena and b) to remind me how fun combos and variety are compared to 11.

All this has still nothing to do with U2/U3. Everything stated in the OP would make the mechanic better and more fair as is now. There is a difference between "not having/needing a mechanic" and "i have a mechanic that is useless but the other guy can make use of it" which you dont seem to understand.

I also dont have to proof shit to you. You rather have the mechanic be as is (unbalanced and dumb) just to avoid making it worse. In my oppinion this is a garbage attitude. Either remove the mechanic (which is what you should have said instead of "dont use it") if its not needed or make it work for everyone. Its a universal mechanic, so why does someone like Geras, who is already semi broken, get to have access to even more options while someone like Kotal or Jade "just dont use it".

So again your "dont use it" comment is pathetic and i am still searching for the reason why you even bothered to comment.
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You literally brought up an MKX situation to prove your point, but its aight, I hope you get what you want with all this ranting and name calling.

 
DarkSado

DarkSado

Noob
GLoRToR said:
Jade's is the worst in the game, hands down. T-rex reach and she doesn't have any reliable combo damage to begin with to follow it up anyway even if you do manage to launch something accidentally.

(Kitana's and Skarlet's are the exact same)
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kitana way worse you cant even flawless block u2 sub-zero f4.
 
elephantvision

elephantvision

Your Cousins, Sisters, 1st cousins favorite gamer
I FOR REAL have almost NEVER a SINGLE DAY in my life hit ANYONE jumping in on me with Laos U2. That, has NEVER fuckin happen.
 
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